Legitimate injury to the knee?

[sundizz]

I've fully accepted the TMS + connection of the mind body. It has helped me completely 100% cure the back pain that ailed me from 14 to 26.

About 1.5 years ago, I hurt my right knee. From online symptoms etc it seemed that it was an ACL tear or some sorts (knee gave out etc). I was out of the country and busy and didn't get it checked out until 9 months later when it still was hurting. I finally realized that the still occurring pain was likely TMS (forgot that TMS pain can move). It occurred around the time I told my parents about my girlfriend that is a different race (they are very old skool/immigrants/not used to interracial dating). Now, 1.5 years later it seems to be fully recovered now and there is only very occasional pain and functionally it can do everything (because of realizing it was TMS and me actively stop caring and thinking about it).

Happily, I've been playing basketball 5x a week lately. Three days ago I felt something odd while playing on my left leg side (a twinge sensation i guess) but kept playing the rest of that day even though I could feel something was off (wasn't especially painful at the time). When I stopped playing and cooled down I couldn't really get down stairs.

Walking around is fine, but bending the knee sit down into a car, or to go down stairs creates a lot of pain and weakness. I'm not sure what this would be (MCL maybe). I am in the country now and have insurance so I could go get it checked out.

However, I'm not really sure of the point. Would it be better to wait 2-3 weeks to allow it to self heal (i hear yes/no on whether knees do that).

I'm also a little confused about whether this is a "real" injury or TMS as well. Just trying to find the right course of action (let it self heal, ignore the pain, cathartic writing about any internal rage)

 

[Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)]

Hi, sundizz. I usually wait if I hurt because of something structural, like when I went canoeing and hit my knee against the canoe and got a bone bruise.
But I find that things like that go away in a week or two. So unless you are in excruciating knee pain, I'd wait a week or two before seeing a doctor and see if it heals itself. A doctor will probably only give you a pain killer and you can try an Advil yourself. It's okay in TMS to take an OTC or doctor prescribed medication to relieve bad pain, if you still believe 100 percent it is from TMS, a repressed emotion or perfectionist and "goodist" personality.

Meanwhile, try to accept and ignore the pain and continue normal activity and moderate exercise if you can.

 

[David88]

I doesn't hurt to get it checked out by a doctor. I once walked around for a week on a stress fracture in my foot, convinced it was TMS. Boy was I surprised when the MRI came back with a fracture. But if the doctor says it's tendinitis or some other inflammation, translate that as TMS.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

And of course, we are not medical professionals and can't give medical advice - we can only tell our own stories! (note: I was writing this when David's post went up, and he is right on).

Personally, I have come to believe that there is "OMG Pay Attention NOW!" pain, and there is TMS. But then there was my back spasm two years ago (two years after I discovered Dr. Sarno).

I was vacuuming the stairs, and at the very moment when I thought "$#!%, I'm going to have to shampoo this carpet" I felt this awful spasm of intense pain go right across my lower back. I hobbled around the rest of the day, trying to ignore it and assuming it was TMS, went to the gym for my training session two days later, only to have it get worse over the next several days - by the end of the week I was using a ski pole to walk around, the pain having settled on the left side. In desperation, I called my favorite bodyworker who is also a licensed PT. He is very popular, and couldn't fit me in, but advised getting a little book by a New Zealand chiropractor (I'd stopped going to my own chiro even before I read my first Dr. Sarno book).

This chiro, (Robin McKenzie, Treat Your Own Back) says that a huge % of people with low back pain don't need a chiropractic adjustment (well, Dr. Sarno says the same thing, doesn't he?) Instead, he prescribes a short series of simple exercises, but more importantly (to my way of thinking) is that he urges his readers to think in terms of complete recovery - to believe that back pain CAN be overcome, that you can go back to doing whatever you did before, that you should not avoid activity that you think is "bad" for your back, and that an episode of low back pain does not mean back pain for life. And that if it comes back, just do the exercises again.

Now we know that Dr. Sarno doesn't advise doing specific exercises for our pain, but in that moment of crisis, when I had debilitating pain, I said what have I got to lose? In fact I experienced a huge amount of relief right away, and a very quick recovery in less than a week. But looking back on that recovery, I attribute it to a shift in my thinking as much as to the exercises. Dr. McKenzie accomplished several things in his little book: 1) he calmed my anxiety, 2) he gave me hope, and 3) he gave me a tool (the exercises) around which to focus a visualization of healing.

And that story was longer than I initially thought, and a bit off-point, perhaps - because my point is that I although I had a moment of "OMG!" scary pain, I was confident that I didn't need to rush to the doctor, and that I could wait and see (as Walt advises) and try a few things on my own.

 

[sundizz]

I doesn't hurt to get it checked out by a doctor. I once walked around for a week on a stress fracture in my foot, convinced it was TMS. Boy was I surprised when the MRI came back with a fracture. But if the doctor says it's tendinitis or some other inflammation, translate that as TMS.

I appreciate everyone's response. Not feeling like you are alone helps a lot with these health issues.

David88, did that mean you needed to get surgery or anything?

I am planning on taking a week off - since one of the core beliefs is that the body generally heals itself.

What im mainly trying to ascertain is whether there is any benefit of going into the doctor. For example, I go in, he/she says it a MCL tear and it needs surgery. I'm a little unsure how to react to that. Are they right or is that an overreaction? I didn't do anything for my other knee and it seems to have healed up decently.

My secondary question - does anyone have any experience of how long an injury should display pain (specifically knee pain)? And when does that pain become TMS (convenient outlet for pain)? My regret with my other knee is that I allowed it to hurt for 12+ months before thinking about TMS.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

Sundizz, we always say that if you have any doubt, you need to get it checked out. I just finished responding to another new member with all kinds of knee pain, whose doc said his cartilage looks perfectly healthy - good news for him, right? He can totally embrace TMS. If you have doubt, it's hard to embrace TMS fully.

That being said, there are also a TON of people who have been told they have this or that "abnormal" condition (usually normal wear and tear), who nevertheless decide not to have any surgery, and who recover from their pain in spite of their diagnoses, by practicing mind-body (TMS) awareness and committing to an examination of their hidden emotions.

I know that you have knee pain, not back pain, but here's a really interesting blog post by Dr. Hanscom, a back surgeon who puts his patients through a mind-body "prehab" program with the goal of "weeding out" people whose pain resolves without surgery. But he also describes patients who he's pretty sure will need surgery anyway - only to have some of them decide they have found enough pain relief to do without it. "What I did not expect was that so many patients would become pain free without undergoing surgery. We are writing a research paper reporting on over 40 patients who would come in for their final preoperative visit and their pain was gone. Of course we cancelled the surgery."

In any case, if you do see a doctor, it's important to find someone who is not knife-happy - someone like Dr. Hanscom, who is perfectly content to let people live with their cysts and narrow spinal canals and worn-out discs, as long as they can do it without debilitating pain.

 

[David88]

David88, did that mean you needed to get surgery or anything?

No, I just had to wear a surgical shoe for six weeks. But to answer another question, the pain lingered for almost a year, and I'm sure that most of that pain was TMS.

As far as your knee goes, it sounds like you're trying to jump to the end of the story instead of taking it step-by-step.

Maybe it will feel better on its own in a few days. If not, you see what the doctor says. He may say it's nothing. If he sees a tear, he may or may not recommend surgery. Ask lots of questions. If he recommends surgery, you can go for a second opinion if you want.

From your description, I recommend maximum caution about surgery. It doesn't sound like you did anything to it. You felt a little twinge, and were able to keep playing. My guess is that you wouldn't have been able to do that if it were a real tear.

How does the event fit into your TMS pattern? Did the pain come on because you were worrying? Were you under stress that day? You can think psychologically even while you're calling the doctor for an appointment.

These things can be tricky to figure out. Take your time and get all the information before you start worrying about it.

 

[sundizz]

Thank you for the advice.

I've booked an appointment for today and should know more.

 

[sundizz]

Back from the doctor's. Phew. seems to be a popliteus strain. I've been playing like 5-6x a week (age 29) so an overuse strain makes sense. The doc bent my knee in a bunch of diff ways and touched up the knee to see where there was pain (none when doing that).

I'll get it out of my mind, ignore the pain, relax and just walk for a few weeks and hopefully be back to normal.

I still am not sure if this is TMS or not but honestly I don't even care that much. I do a pretty decent job lately (I think) of internalizing the pain is an outlet for an emotion part of TMS so if it TMS related hopefully it should clear up sooner than later. Will try to take the time and do some actual writing of stuff going on in my life to see if there is some unconscious rage that I'm holding in that I'm not consciously thinking about (lot's of changes in my life coming up so makes sense a bit).