It's neck and shoulder

[dlane2530]

...on one side for six weeks and it's hard to let go of it possibly being structural or -- mostly -- caused by my having taken up running. Because I'm large-busted, I'm always worried about bras and shoulder and back pain caused by my chest size. I do seem to have a pretty good support solution while running and often there is not pain while running -- running in and of itself has been a big TMS/anxiety victory for me because I have held the false belief for decades that I could not run (because of chest size, pain, breathing, exhaustion, etc.).

Now I've been jogging for three months and I am now doing 30+ minutes 3-4 times per week! Amazing!

But this pain started one day while running (no injury or weird movement or anything) and now it just...well, it's really challenging. The chiropractor hasn't noticed anything (I no longer tell him about my symptoms, just have him do his thing) and he actually stretched out the time between visits recently. I think that's part of my fear. It hurts lots during the day and lots more at night and is tempting me to obsess about sleeping positions. Some success at night when I just enter into the pain fully.

If it is bras or spine maybe it will never go away because I won't be fixing it because I'm treating it as TMS. It doesn't make sense to me for such intensity of pain to be from a spinal problem that is so minor (if there even is one at all) that I only need maintenance adjustments once a month, though. But bras...I can cycle through different bras but...And of course I know that if I reported pain I'd go back into the multiple visits per month chiro cycle.

I have lots of other random pains during and after running but they go away with TMS work.

I had a wonderful run of days a couple of weeks ago in which I truly had almost no pain (I did have some occasional spikes of this pain). It was like living a different life.

 

[dlane2530]

I probably shouldn't have posted. I know that there's nothing I can do either way -- nothing I can do to fix it structurally, nothing I can do to force it away if it's TMS. I know my stress levels have been very high (we even had a burst pipe earlier this week). I know I've made huge progress with my running and many other challenges to TMS/anxiety; I took up knitting again, too, which uses the same arm/shoulder muscles and that was a fear...

So I don't know what it is. I also know I treat it the same no matter what. But it's exhausting and it's hard not to worry that I'm missing some quick fix.

 

[Joulegirl]

I probably shouldn't have posted. I know that there's nothing I can do either way -- nothing I can do to fix it structurally, nothing I can do to force it away if it's TMS

I can't tell you if your shoulder or back pain is TMS, but since you have dealt with other TMS symptoms, it leads me to believe that's probably it. That's what I would think if it were happening to me. You definitely can't force TMS symptoms away, but you can do the work. Either journaling, meditation, etc. What have you done in the past to calm yourself down in stressful time? That is what you need to focus on. I can hear the fear and the frustration in your post about these newer symptoms-and I get it!

You had mentioned that you go the chiropractor. Dr. Sarno does suggest to stop all physical treatment. But that is easier said than done. And if you are doing it from a place of self care instead of putting hope in the chiropractor, then it shouldn't be a problem. But I do wonder if that is enforcing your belief that something structural is wrong with you. Just a thought as you work through this!

 

[BloodMoon]

running in and of itself has been a big TMS/anxiety victory for me because I have held the false belief for decades that I could not run (because of chest size, pain, breathing, exhaustion, etc.).

And my guess is that you still have the 'dregs' of those beliefs/fears somewhere deep down in the 'bowels' of your brain that want to break through to the surface and give you pain (and sometimes do, especially when your calm has been disrupted by 'lifey' things such as dealing with burst pipes).

My suggestion is to talk to your brain and repeatedly say something along the lines of "You've got to be kidding! Cut it out!" or "Don't be ridiculous! I'm wearing a very supportive bra, and I'm fine!"

And I particularly agree with what Joulegirl says here:

if you are doing it from a place of self care instead of putting hope in the chiropractor, then it shouldn't be a problem. But I do wonder if that is enforcing your belief that something structural is wrong with you. Just a thought as you work through this!

Out of all the numerous things I tried for my back, neck, shoulder and sacro-iliac pain pre my doing mind/body work, chiropractic was the only thing that got me out of pain, but that was only ever for a while. I theorise now that it was because the 'adjustments' probably brought some good blood flow to the tissues. I say this because when I embarked on trying chiropractic, I had no more faith in it helping me than I did with any of the other 'medical' things I tried that were aimed to work (in one or another) on the body, all of which didn't help me at all. (I don't think Dr Sarno's mild hypoxia theory is the whole story of how the brain/body creates painful symptoms but, personally, I do think it is a part of it.)

 

[Rabscuttle]

Considering your years long fears surrounding your body this sounds like TMS to me, your brain is using your fear and trying to protect you by generating sensations. I think we fall into this trap of it’s either TMS and there absolutely nothing structurally off, or there is something physically off and that It’s hopeless or we’re completely at the mercy of chasing physical treatments. In either case the brain is the thing deciding to generate the symptoms. I’m quite convinced the brain can turn off the pain in either case. Obviously in serious physical issues this isn’t wise, but what you’re dealing with doesn’t scream that. I think the cyclical nature of pain is a strong indication of TMS, but the reality is, is that certain TMS pains are going to be more stubborn especially when fear is high, I think we have to be honest with how we are reacting to the sensations, both in the moment and in the lead up to the activity and afterwards. I think, especially when we’re having success we are vulnerable to ‘set backs’ (learning opportunities), Because we may forget what it was like dealing with severe pain that can threaten our ability to engage in our outlets.

if the fear is overwhelming then you can always get a scan if financially accessible. But the fact that you’ve dealt with decades of fear surrounding exercise is probably the root of this. That isn’t going to be fully extinguished in a relatively short duration. The brain is still going to have those oh shit what is she doing moments.

sometimes taking a break from our exercise outlets can be wise, as is changing things up. Not so much as I’m terrified and can’t do this, but as a kindness, a break to reset our mind and our approach. I had to temporarily give up lots of hobbies but they always come back. I think it’s really important to reflect on how we treat/approach our exercise hobbies, if we have to miss a few days, what is our reaction, are we back to thinking that we’re scared, sick weaklings destined for pain, or do we accept it’s just temporary? I notice a lot of exercise obsession in this space as well as obsession over physical appearance, all that stuff plays a role in the panicky TMS brain. I deal with both and it’s a struggle.

 

[dlane2530]

Thank you all so much. Yes, I think the chiro actually gave me emotional support and gentleness and hope when I was really bad, so he actually helped with TMS healing. But I understand what you mean and I need to think more about stopping.

I will keep on plugging. It can be so hard when a lot of thing are going on.

 

[dlane2530]

To be honest, many of my old symptoms have been acting up. So it's a big brain push to make me think it's structural again.

 

[Rabscuttle]

To be honest, many of my old symptoms have been acting up. So it's a big brain push to make me think it's structural again.

I think this is all just a part of and the nature of the recovery process. The fact that you recognized the pain and the likely source is pretty much the whole battle, after that the mental shifts can start to take hold, the same ones that saw you progress with in the past. I still struggle with the fear when the intensity ramps up but I think we get better and better with each subsequent flare/learning opportunity.

 

[dlane2530]

I still struggle with the fear when the intensity ramps up but I think we get better and better with each subsequent flare/learning opportunity.

Excellent point. It's always surprising to me how an intense resurgence of pain can have me doubting again *even after experiencing success in the past.* It speaks to how powerful the brain's safety mechanisms are. I think usually, for me, it's the fear of it never getting better.

 

[Rabscuttle]

Excellent point. It's always surprising to me how an intense resurgence of pain can have me doubting again *even after experiencing success in the past.* It speaks to how powerful the brain's safety mechanisms are. I think usually, for me, it's the fear of it never getting better.

Yeah I’m with you, I can deal with pain, it’s the thoughts of holy shit is this the rest of my life that really REALLY wrecks me. We just need to remember that we’ve had success in the past, the symptoms have lowered or gone away previous. That means they can turn off for good.

do you meditate?

 

[dlane2530]

Yeah I’m with you, I can deal with pain, it’s the thoughts of holy shit is this the rest of my life that really REALLY wrecks me. We just need to remember that we’ve had success in the past, the symptoms have lowered or gone away previous. That means they can turn off for good.

do you meditate?

Meditation is an opportunity for obsessive thoughts for me, so it's not something I do often. But I have lots of other good techniques!

 

[BloodMoon]

Meditation is an opportunity for obsessive thoughts for me, so it's not something I do often.

I know only too well what that's like... but don’t forget that you can meditate with a mantra or by counting your breaths to help calm your fearful system down. That’s how I first started meditating. This approach leaves little room for obsessive thoughts — and the ones that do come up tend to be no more than you’d have in daily life anyway. The main thing is to notice those thoughts and let them pass, especially when they’re intrusive or unhelpful, rather than getting caught up in them. You also don’t need long sessions; I began with just a few minutes a day.

I actually woke up this morning thinking about what you said in this thread. With your running, I wondered whether you built up gradually to doing 30 minutes per session. This isn’t about fitness levels so much as helping your brain feel safe. I’ve found that with any kind of movement or exercise, it’s easier to stay “under the radar” — meaning the brain is less likely to overreact and misread normal exertion sensations as something dangerous — if you build up slowly. (I don’t run, but I’ve gone from being bedbound to exercising 35–40 minutes twice a day by using this gradual approach.) Sudden or intense activity can sometimes alarm a TMS-prone brain, but it’s absolutely something you can retrain and overcome.

 

[dlane2530]

That's a good point about meditation! I do do breathing and prayer and mantras/affirmations regularly...I guess that's a form of meditation. And yes, I built up to 30 minutes over four months, so very slowly You're absolutely right about sudden/intense stuff and I think that's probably part of why I struggled to run most of my life -- I wasn't willing to start incredibly small and slow.

Today I am feeling just like giving up about this particular pain. I don't understand it and I'm so exhausted. Often there's a hidden fight in there even with TMS work and it can be better to just stop trying. We'll see. I'm very tired.

 

[BloodMoon]

Today I am feeling just like giving up about this particular pain. I don't understand it and I'm so exhausted. Often there's a hidden fight in there even with TMS work and it can be better to just stop trying. We'll see. I'm very tired.

Yes, it really does sound like you need to give yourself a break and just do things that feel self-soothing. From what I’ve gathered (and experienced myself), a big part of recovery is non-resistance to the symptoms — which often means, as you say, stopping the effort to “fix” them.

I once had horrendous pain in my dominant hand — my right thumb and wrist felt as if a truck had run over them. The onset was very sudden, and I couldn’t even brush my teeth. This went on for many months, and all I could do was wear a brace so I could move a couple of fingers and carry on as best I could. Over time, and without doing anything special, the pain gradually faded away and has never come back. The brace didn’t cure it — my brain simply stopped producing the pain in that area.

It’s hard not to focus on pain, but I’ve found it’s true that "what we focus on, we reinforce". If we focus on pain, we strengthen it; if we focus on calm and self-soothing, we strengthen that instead.

Wishing you well.

 

[dlane2530]

The brace didn’t cure it — my brain simply stopped producing the pain in that area.

My aunt had terrible shoulder pain for like a year. PT, scans, etc. Was going to have surgery but she couldn't find anyone to care for her horses so she decided just not to have the surgery. 2-3 months later the pain was gone.

I'm hopeful that the pain will just eventually recede from this area for me, too.

 

[Diana-M]

@dlane2530
Hi Dixie! Everybody offered such great advice above. I agree with all of it. I’m up to 45 min of exercise per day, but man oh man, overstep what my brain has decided is safe, and there’s hell to pay. In a way, running is that for you. Something new for your brain to accept. It sounds like it hasn’t really totally accepted it yet, even though you’ve had some success. When this happens to me, I go back to square one and start all over super easy. Then baby steps again. Kind of like training a puppy. Your brain is the puppy! When I’m in a flare due ro exercise I refuse to entertain other reasons for it. I just say “whoops, I overdid.” Then I rest a couple days.

As far as meditating, check out the album Chants of Deliverance, by Floriani. It’s Gregorian chant in Latin. prayers. I look up the prayers in English. They’re beautiful!!! I just close my eyes and get lost in it. I actually feel my whole body relax!

Also, a book that has transformed my life with hope: The Power of the Rosary, by Gabriel Castillo. I used to pray the rosary before, but this takes it to a whole new level.

Hope you feel better soon!

 

[dlane2530]

@dlane2530
Hi Dixie! Everybody offered such great advice above. I agree with all of it. I’m up to 45 min of exercise per day, but man oh man, overstep what my brain has decided is safe, and there’s hell to pay. In a way, running is that for you. Something new for your brain to accept. It sounds like it hasn’t really totally accepted it yet, even though you’ve had some success. When this happens to me, I go back to square one and start all over super easy. Then baby steps again. Kind of like training a puppy. Your brain is the puppy! When I’m in a flare due ro exercise I refuse to entertain other reasons for it. I just say “whoops, I overdid.” Then I rest a couple days.

As far as meditating, check out the album Chants of Deliverance, by Floriani. It’s Gregorian chant in Latin. prayers. I look up the prayers in English. They’re beautiful!!! I just close my eyes and get lost in it. I actually feel my whole body relax!

Also, a book that has transformed my life with hope: The Power of the Rosary, by Gabriel Castillo. I used to pray the rosary before, but this takes it to a whole new level.

Hope you feel better soon!

Wow, Diana, 45 minutes! That is amazing! You are amazing! That is beautiful and wonderful to hear.

I started having more exceptions to the pain the night after posting this and that really helped me accept that it's TMS. Now several of the kids and I are sick and I'm having more pain but I'm not afraid of it. I know it'll pass. Sickness is always such a trigger, too. The kids, too, get anxious when they are sick and then they pile all over me even if I'm sick and I find myself spending lots of time and energy helping them manage their anxiety while I am also feeling so ill...well, part of motherhood is extending yourself for your children but it upsets me that it's this way sometimes. So, lots of things. I love my kids.

I should check out the music -- and maybe start praying the rosary again, too! It's a beautiful prayer. I stopped praying it regularly because I disliked the sense of pressure in my parish about it. But why should their pressure keep me from praying a beautiful prayer?

 

[Diana-M]

Thanks, Dixie! It’s not 45 minutes straight. But it adds up to 45 minutes.

Sorry to hear you’re sick. I hope you and your kids feel better soon!

Yes, about the rosary. I think it holds a lot of hope. I actually converted to Catholicism because of the rosary. Something came over me to try it. I tried it for 30 days, and it changed my life.