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Isn't tendonitis real?

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by Livinginhope, Aug 14, 2017.

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  1. Livinginhope

    Livinginhope Peer Supporter

    So I had laid off walking for several days, trying to give myself some healing time. My back seems to be getting better, but I have this new knee pain, which started on one of my walks. I thought I had sprained it a bit too much and was trying to let it heal on its own. Then I thought, listening to Dr. Sarno's words, exercise can't hurt you. So I walked yesterday again and now my knee is really throbbing. Before it only hurt when walking down stairs, now all the time. How does that jibe with what Dr. Sarno said about exercise? I am confused.
     
  2. Gigalos

    Gigalos Beloved Grand Eagle

    Exercise can hurt you when you have TMS, but it is pain that is benign, they are reversible symptoms that don't cause damage.
    Did you do anything to hurt or twist your knee? Is it thick and swollen?? If not, it is probably a new symptom imho. If you have any doubts, have it checked out, nothing wrong with that.
    I had knee pain, so bad that I had to stumble back when I did a walk, like it got locked or something with stabbing pains every step. It turned out that there was nothing wrong, works like a charm these days.
     
  3. Livinginhope

    Livinginhope Peer Supporter

    It is interesting what you say, Gigalos as I had started to do some stretches at home to see if I could ease the knee pain, prior to this more involved set back. Does that mean that my mind is punishing me for thinking that this pain may be structural rather than TMS. Does it see a way in to challenge my thought that the pain may be only TMS? It almost feels as though there is a war going on inside; I either believe in my TMS diagnosis without any doubt at all and have a chance of getting over this pain or I hold on to the belief that I secretly think it is structural and get slammed for that.
    When you had your knee pain that was so bad, did you continue to walk with it anyway? Did you take a break? Did you take some aspirin to dull the pain, or did you just limp around anyway?

    I have not twisted my knee and it doesn't look swollen, but still have an appointment at an ortho to get a scan. If that comes up clean, perhaps it will help. I know that an ortho doc who is more traditional will most likely find something, some arthritis or tendinitis, so I am prepared for that. Just want to make sure that it is not extreme.
     
  4. Gigalos

    Gigalos Beloved Grand Eagle

    It is always good to see a doctor. Yes, there is the risk that he sees something and connects that to the pain, but it is up to you what to do with that information. That is the plunge we all have to take ourselves.
    When I had knee pain, the pain was simply too much to walk without constant waves of pain and fear. It wasn't there the first mile or so and then suddenly sharp pain started to rise. It always happened when I left the hardened road. I took a break and then walked shorter distances, if it came I stumbled back to my car, but slowly I started to recognize that it was fear that made it come up. Fear that was partly there because I am missing a ligament in my knee that causes it to twist when my muscles are caught off guard. Twisting it hurts like hell, I have seen it happen to one of the toughest fighters in K1 and even he screamed when it happened...
    I found triggerpoints in my upper leg muscles and calf muscles and I knew that the existence of them could give all kinds of pain in the knee. So my first hunch was that when I left the hardened road, my leg muscles had to work harder and therefore the triggerpoints would get irritated or something. In retrospect I conditioned myself that this would happen when I didn't walk on a hardened road. And I fully acknowledge that triggerpoints are clear signs of TMS, nowadays I apply my TP-knowledge only to diagnose a certain symptom as TMS and I never treat them, because it is treating a symptom, not the cause. By the way, tendonitis is very often accompanied by triggerpoints in the muscle. How it works exactly I don't know, but in my case this has always been true. For example my achilles were thick and painful, but they were accompanied by triggerpoints in my calfs. Chicken-egg?? No, they're both the result of TMS.
    I cannot look inside your mind to say what started your knee pain. I only can tell you that for me the road to recovery hasn't been a straight line upwards. The key to recovery is losing the fear of upcoming pain and its consequences. If you put pressure on yourself to walk a certain distance, you also flick on fear of not making it. So what if you don't make it? In the worst case you can always ask someone to help you back to your car/home, if noone's around, call the police or something. In short, what is the worst thing that could happen?? Also, try to taunt your brain to start symptoms, even when they rise, keep taunting it to give it its best shot, which essentially is telling your brain that you're no longer afraid of it. You catch my drift??
    Hope my rambling helps you :)
    take care
     
    Lynn S and TheUndyingMind like this.
  5. Livinginhope

    Livinginhope Peer Supporter

    I love your rambling because it feels so honest and thank you so much for your wise words. I have decided to start to work with one of the therapists in the TMS directory because I do feel that I am too analytical for my own good. I am also relentless, which is a character trait that I feel should also be applied to people with TMS. I know that this pain is something that I "rely" on for whatever reason, I am not sure. I also know that I embrace chronicity in all forms; I am totally indiscriminate to what the health issue may be. After years and years in this state of "familiar discomfort", I am risking living without it. The real question for me is, is that more painful that all these chronic issues?
     
  6. TheUndyingMind

    TheUndyingMind Peer Supporter

    I agree with Gigalos, check into trigger points. I had them all over several months ago. The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook by Claire Davies was very helpful. Be sure to read the last Chapter about Chronic Muscle Pain and Relaxation. I never made the connection before between trigger points and TMS but it makes total sense.

    Self-massage therapy will only get you so far though so definitely don't abandon the psychological aspect. I'm currently looking into mindfulness and other relaxation techniques. All of these things go hand-in-hand IMO. To be successful in alleviating your pain you need to take a holistic approach.
     
  7. Celayne

    Celayne Well known member

    I have had the exact same thoughts, that I am "relying" on my pain for some reason. Its like, without the pain, then what? I know I would love to be pain-free, but it's hard to imagine sometimes.
     
  8. Gigalos

    Gigalos Beloved Grand Eagle

    Livinginhope, there's nothing wrong with going to see a therapist. You seem to have gained a lot of wisdom already. Be good to yourself; I am still learning how to do that and probably will until the day I die.

    TUM, in retrospect the last chapter of Claire Davies' book was the most important. He connected his emotional issues to his pain and other symptoms (wasn't he allergic to sounds or something??). I don't want to encourage people to put energy in reading books about TP's, better focus your energy on the psychological part of healing. I had the knowledge already before I discovered TMS and it both sped up and slowed down my recovery.
     
  9. TheUndyingMind

    TheUndyingMind Peer Supporter

    Indeed, the last chapter was the most important and one that I had skipped over until learning about TMS. I think it's still a helpful book in terms of helping to relax. It's by no means a substitute for working on the underlying psychological drivers as I've learned the hard way.
     
  10. Gigalos

    Gigalos Beloved Grand Eagle

    Same here :) :)
    I skipped that part too the first time.
     
  11. hodini

    hodini Peer Supporter

    Hi Livinginhope, (nice nick by the way!),

    I can assure you that Tendonitis is a real and common condition. It could be a small tear, but for the most part it is usually caused by repetitive movement that creates irritation and/or inflammation of the tendon and sometimes surrounding tissue. It quite often raises its ugly head when one had not been active for a while and then attempts to return to activity and overuses. For me, I always try to remember "ICE IS NICE!", I also, if my tendonitis flares up a bit, in addition to icing, both prior to and after activity, I may take some ibuprofen BEFORE my activity and for me I have found it most often allows me to continue my activity without increasing irritation or inflammation.( please read full disclaimer here http://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/TMSWiki:General_disclaimer (General disclaimer) )

    One thing you might want to check as an outlier, is if you take any medications, read all the fine print you can because in a small group people tendons and ligaments are effected by some medication.

    That said, when you say "It is interesting what you say, Gigalos as I had started to do some stretches at home to see if I could ease the knee pain, prior to this more involved set back."

    When there are several possibilities for something, I always find it useful to apply Occam's razor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor (Occam's razor - Wikipedia)


    "Does that mean that my mind is punishing me for thinking that this pain may be structural rather than TMS. Does it see a way in to challenge my thought that the pain may be only TMS?

    I must honestly say, this type of thinking above is what disturbs me about the TMS theory , methods, and practices. I would think that the tension and mental anguish from the ideation of ones mind turning against oneself is far greater then the pain that tendonitis can cause. With tendinitis, at least one can understand the mechanisms, outcomes and different ways in which to deal with it. However, by carrying around an enemy and battlefield in ones head, virtually a knowing trojan horse, I fully understand how you can come to the conclusion below."

    "It almost feels as though there is a war going on inside; I either believe in my TMS diagnosis without any doubt at all and have a chance of getting over this pain or I hold on to the belief that I secretly think it is structural and get slammed for that."

    Here, I think you might agree with me, that feeling like you are having an internal battle, dwarfs tendonitis pain.
    Actually, you seem to have limited your options to black and white thinking which can limit ones cognitive thinking capacities. It sounds like you are at war with yourself and that you have to choose which side you want to join and of course one would want to be on the winning side.

    I leave you with a couple common sense adages;

    There are many ways to skin a cat.

    Your mind is your friend, not an enemy nor battlefield. Perhaps, it might be better looked at as a farm. feed it, rotate crops, get up early and tend to the animals, protect your investment.


    Attempting to put myself in your shoes, and using the razor, in this case it would lead me to believe that perhaps you overused, or, over stretched a bit. Hopefully, no biggie.

    Wishing you the best!
     
    TheUndyingMind likes this.
  12. Livinginhope

    Livinginhope Peer Supporter

    Thanks, Hodini. And yes, black and white is my preferred mode of thinking. It is all those nasty grays that tend to trip me up. I really appreciate the level headedness of your approach. I do think that it is overuse that is the culprit; the question is by ignoring this, do I drive it even further into the structural pain category. And why would I have such a strong reaction after laying off for several days, simply by walking again. I do think that perhaps all the different stretches that I did may have inadvertently hurt more than helped, but who knows. Because I seem to have a lot of issues that coincide with folks who have TMS, I am pretty sure I am in that camp.

    Being gentle with myself is not so easy, but it is a good goal and I will try to use it in the future. The most challenging part of any new program is implementing change; I always thought that I was open to it; perhaps that is where I need to start.
     
  13. TheUndyingMind

    TheUndyingMind Peer Supporter

    Livinginhope - if it helps ease your mind, chronicity is usually defined as having lasted for more than 6 months. If it's just an overuse or slight strain it should heal soon enough. However, and this is where the TMS part comes in, don't dwell on it and constantly measure how does it feel today, how long has it been, etc. Your mind can definitely overreact and make you believe there's a larger issue going on. If in doubt after several days of self-care then see a doctor. TMS doesn't mean that all medical professionals are quacks but unless you have a visible break in a bone or tear in a ligament, tendon or muscle then it will likely heal on it's own. Even the latter usually heal on their own with enough time... And no dwelling & worrying by the mind :)
     
  14. hodini

    hodini Peer Supporter

    Living,
    Why would you want to ignore it? I can see not focusing all your attention on it, but to ignore it could certainly lead to unintended consequences.

    "And why would I have such a strong reaction after laying off for several days, simply by walking again. I do think that perhaps all the different stretches that I did may have inadvertently hurt more than helped, but who knows."

    I am no crystal ball, but maybe you are in the midsts of analysis-paralysis?

    "Because I seem to have a lot of issues that coincide with folks who have TMS, I am pretty sure I am in that camp."

    Could be, but also with the application of Occam's razor you may just be in the camp of the human species.

    "Being gentle with myself is not so easy, but it is a good goal and I will try to use it in the future.

    Yes, I agree, especially if one lives in a urban environment or grew up in one, the dog eat dog world does not allow much time for one to be gentle with ones self.

    "The most challenging part of any new program is implementing change; I always thought that I was open to it; perhaps that is where I need to start."

    Yes, again I agree! That is assuming the program is suited towards one, there is no one size fits all, or it can be like the tool that advertises it does everything, however it never does any one thing well.

    As far as an open mind goes, I always say, keep an open mind, but keep your hand on the doorknob and the key in your pocket!
     
  15. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    I'm a huge fan of what works. When I stopped dancing around 15 years ago I couldn't walk due to achilles tendonitis. I had royally shagged myself by continuing to dance on an injury. Silly girl.

    It got a bit better over time but proved recalcitrant. I was resigned to living with it...until I began doing yin yoga for my hamstrings (I am easing back into dancing) and it is better now than it has been in all those years.

    It would have been incredibly easy to assume this was TMS but given that it didn't especially bother me it is hard to reconcile as such.

    I strongly recommend being gentle with yourself. It troubles me greatly to read of people abusing their bodies in the name of recovery. A huge measure of healing is learning to calibrate to your own standard not an external one.

    @hodini
    I have variously sarcastically and seriously referred to these mindgames as the djinn of pain. I'd rather play with a nuclear submarine than this nonsense.
     
    hodini likes this.
  16. Livinginhope

    Livinginhope Peer Supporter

    Thank you, Plum. The gentleness of your response was greatly appreciated. I continue to test the waters and will just have to see how things unfold, as they unfold. In the meantime, I am opting to work with a TMS therapist as I feel the need of clarity and a warm place to land. I am not sure if this forum is that.
     
    plum likes this.
  17. TheUndyingMind

    TheUndyingMind Peer Supporter

    For what it's worth, Steve, the author of The Great Pain Deception did have this to say in Appendix A - TMS Equivalents - Serving the Same Purpose as Pain...

    "Tendonitis (inflammation of knee, shoulder, foot, etc., tendons)—I had all these pains and it was never from swelling or so-called tendonitis. It was always from tension-induced hypoxia—a.k.a. TMS."
     
  18. hodini

    hodini Peer Supporter

    I just love that analogy!!!!!
     
  19. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    My greatest healing strides are taken when I take my leave from here and simply enjoy my life allowing knowledge to assimilate in body and mind while naturally discovering what best suits me.

    There can be too much politics on here which easily descends into either/or thinking. I'm happy to leave that to Kierkegaard and get on with recovery. Chaos and confusion help no one.

    Follow your heart dear one. I wish you the best with your therapist and with your healing. Remember no one knows you better than you do.

    Plum x
     

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