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Is TMS religious

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by swamitommy, Jul 29, 2015.

  1. swamitommy

    swamitommy New Member

    TMS seems to work for many, which is great. The belief element makes me think it is more a religion (which is fine with me) than a medical treatment. I wonder if Dr. Sarno is a Christian Scientist. There are many parallels between his work and that of Mary Baker Eddy.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  2. Zumbafan

    Zumbafan Well known member

    Dr Sarno discovered "emotional factors were setting off a reaction in certain tissues in the body that resulted in pain and other neurologic symptoms". He told his patients there was nothing wrong with their backs, they were to treat the pain through the mind, not the body. "Awareness, insight, knowledge and information were the magic medicines that would cure this disorder---and nothing else could do it". "Once accepted by the patient, the knowledge of what was going on destroyed the brain's strategy".
    The quotes are from The Mindbody Prescription. I hope you can see TMS is not a religion, but an understanding of the body.
    I have heard that Dr Sarno is jewish, but please don't quote me on that. Maybe one of the long time members here at the forum can put me straight.
  3. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    Zumbafan is right, Tms healing is not a religion. Yes, it's something you can believe in and bet your last cent on but it's not religion.
    Forest likes this.
  4. Alan Gordon LCSW

    Alan Gordon LCSW TMS Therapist

    Good lord! I've never heard someone make this parallel before. TMS and religion both involve a complete belief, so I can understand the confusion. But while religion involves belief as a function of faith, TMS requires belief as a means to recovery. And there is a psychological/physiological reason for this. As long as you believe that there's something physically/structurally wrong with you, it perpetuates the fear cycle. And the purpose of psychological pain is to generate fear, so the only way to undermine the fear (the psychological purpose of the pain) is to believe completely that you are structurally sound. This eliminates the pain's purpose, and no behavior continues when it is no longer being reinforced.

    So yes, TMS involves complete belief, but simply as a function of evolution, not for any cultural reasons.

    Last edited: Jul 31, 2015
  5. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    TMS is NOT a religion, it is medical science, psychosomatic medicine. It does hinge on believing in one's own MINDBODY healing properties. Dr. Sarno did mention finding that patients with deep religious beliefs do catch onto TMS theory faster such as Hassidic Jews. Maybe because they are practiced in believing in something, and can transfer that practice to other disciplines. Was it Maimonides who said, "If I am not for me, who will be?"
  6. tarheel_w

    tarheel_w New Member

    I can see how someone would ask this question. I don't see TMS as a religion. I am a God fearing believer. I do believe that God has given us authority over our bodies. I believe that Jesus died so that we could have life and live it abundantly. God's word says that by His stripes we have been healed and made whole. Treating chronic pain as TMS seems to fall in line with Gods word. I also don't believe that it is in God's will for us to be in pain! He says that if you have faith the size of a mustard seed you can tell this mountain to move and it will. Don't give up and don't let your body or emotions tell you what you can and cannot do!
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  7. Lori

    Lori Well known member

    I don't think it can be classified as a religion, but it does not matter to me. It is a new way of thinking and believing.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  8. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    I wrote a book with Walt Oleksy called "God does not want you to be in pain" for the reason that I felt God has shown me how to heal through Tms. Now I do believe in Jesus Christ as my personal savior and I believe he heals and wants us to know how to heal. I have studied many many years in the healing arts and I do believe tms healing is God's way of teaching us how we can teach ourselves to heal " Do ye not know, that ye are Gods"
    Now with that said as a Christian, tms is still not religious.
    Religions have a way of saying it's this way or that way but nothing else and you aren't allowed to be who you really are, you have to wear mask. In tms healing we shed the mask and rules that hold us bound so we can be free to heal, the way God truly intended.
    God is not rules and mask, he is freedom from self imposed pressures and judgement and in that sense God is like tms healing but not like the chains and pressures of religion.
    Now if you ask me is God in tms healing? Well if you read the bible you will see him there, I do.
    With that said lots of wise men are in tms healing, but religion, nope, not room for the tension and pressures to meet those standards, you'd never heal.
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2015
  9. Cap'n Spanky

    Cap'n Spanky Well known member

    It's a belief in a diagnosis and a treatment method. Nothing more.

    When your doctor says you need surgery and you believe him, does that make it a religion? Hardly.
  10. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    I like Herbie's reply and also Markus's.
    To me, TMS is not a religion but I ask God to help heal me, and believe that has helped.
    I sure counted more on God healing me than I did doctors. And God is available 24-7 and does not send a bill.
    I think, as Herbie does, that God sent me to TMS.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  11. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    Fascinating discussion! I like everyone's answers - because what I see is that TMS theory is absorbed and embraced differently by each individual who accepts it as the road to recovery from whatever it is that ails him or her. There is no black and white doctrine required.

    And let's not forget that Dr. Sarno went back to Freud in order to develop his theory. TMS is no more a religion than Freudian psychoanalysis is.
  12. kevinmichael

    kevinmichael Peer Supporter

    Very interesting question. I do not think it has any relationship to religion. It is psychology.
    mike2014 and Tennis Tom like this.
  13. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    Absolutely, psychosomatic psychology. When Dr. Sarno was tipped off that his migraines were psychosomatic by a psych-colleague, he went on to study the greats of psychology who came before him like Freud, Jung and Adler, he mentions them and their contributions to the science in his books. The Good Doctor uses the terms psychosomatic and TMS interchangeably, (the last iteration for TMS being an acronym for THE MINDBODY SYNDROME, he and Dr. Marc Sopher came up with)
    JanAtheCPA likes this.
  14. mike2014

    mike2014 Beloved Grand Eagle

    I would say, TMS/MB is not religious, but does require belief. One could argue it does has a spiritual element; it's a dis balance of living and being I.e being out of sync with our true authentic self and our surrounds.

    That said, TMS and MB healing requires belief on a higher consciousness; that we are equipped with self healing capabilities that can bring change to our complete being.
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2015
    JanAtheCPA and Tennis Tom like this.
  15. kevinmichael

    kevinmichael Peer Supporter

    I am not religious therefore nothing is religious to me. We are dealing with a belief in psychology here.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  16. mike2014

    mike2014 Beloved Grand Eagle

    Exactly, but it's not only a belief in psychology. But rather, a belief that a link exists between psychology and physiology on an unconscious level.
  17. swamitommy

    swamitommy New Member

    When I posted the question at the head of this thread I was thinking of religion as a binding together of various elements with the help of a unifying belief. I know there are many other definitions, positive and negative. TMS in offering a cure to anyone who assents to a diagnosis is different than any medical treatment I've ever heard of, but similar to many religions (that offer salvation to believers). Somewhat on this same subject, I want to say to Dr. Sarno when he writes in The MindBody Prescription (page 156 of my paperback edition), "There is no treatment, no interaction with a 'healer'--only the acquisition of information"--but I feel there is interaction with your personality which enlivens your book.
  18. kchung

    kchung New Member

    If the community has presented itself the image of a religious group, and worse still, as a "cult", then it is not good. It should stay within the realm of "health science" and adhere to the theories of Dr. Sarno and other medical professionals and researchers. TSM has often been criticized as unscientific, anecdotal, and unconventional. It is placed even lower than "alternative" or "complimentary" medicine. There are people calling TSM pseudo-science, quackery, snake-oil, and scam. This image makes it more difficult for people like myself who are skeptical in nature to fully embrace TSM, and therefore making a full recovery very hard.
    Markus likes this.
  19. mike2014

    mike2014 Beloved Grand Eagle

    TMS has never had any religious connection and nor has this community ever passed it off as this. By even associating it, does make it cult like and ruin the work of the GREAT Dr Sarno and the qualified people who have continued his work.

    In reality, most people who find TMS have explored all means of medicine and have been failed. There are some people who find it to soon and are not willing to surrender and commit 100 %, that's natural. We've all been primed to believe our emotions don't have bearing on our well being, so we will clearly be resilient to shifting our thinking.

    The only advice I can give you, is to read more success stories, watch videos and re-read Dr Sarno's book and try to shift your way of thinking.

    Belief will not be instilled in your unconcinciousness, until you are determined and willing to let go of everything you know to be true about healing.

    Good luck on your journey.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2015
  20. jazzhands

    jazzhands Peer Supporter

    I don't understand this comparison. TMS is a physiological phenomenon. Where there are gaps in our understanding of it, we seek to fill them in, both on a personal and a scientific level. I don't think a careful reading of the Mindbody Prescription, etc, would give you this impression.
    Cap'n Spanky and JanAtheCPA like this.

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