Hi everyone, right now i am reading the unlearn your pain book from dr schubiner. There are some criteria on how to know if the pain is TMS. One of these is the inconsistency of syptoms. After resting and sleeping, early in the morning, my symptoms are like 95% better for only a short time. But i noticed that most people have pain early in the morning or when they are resting which is clearly tms then. It makes me wonder because mine are only good after sleeping and resting. Sometimes i wake up in the middle of the night and my symtoms are realy relaxed. It makes me still think its some structural Problem because they do get better with resting and not using. Anyone else had this experience ?
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Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this updated link: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/painrecovery/
Inconsistency of symptoms
- Thread starter gx92
- Start date
Ellen
Beloved Grand Eagle
Have you seen a medical professional who can rule out a structural issue? This is an important first step and can put your mind at ease after it is ruled out. If it is determined to not be structural, then you can treat it as TMS.
You're on a good path with Dr. Schubiner's book. Keep at it a day at a time.
You're on a good path with Dr. Schubiner's book. Keep at it a day at a time.
JanAtheCPA
Beloved Grand Eagle
Hi @gx92. Let's hope that the rest of the tests also produce no results. The fact is that our brains are completely in charge of every physiological process and sensation in our bodies, and we have seen over and over that symptoms can be designed by people's TMS brain mechanisms which are custom designed just for them, so that they can't compare to others! So I would not take that at all seriously. Also be aware of the fact that those of us who are older naturally experience more pain in the mornings. How we ultimately end up feeling about it after we do this work is the result of replacing fear with acceptance - often resulting in a diminishment of pain.
Do the tests (as @Ellen said, we want to know that people have been medically checked) BUT - there's no reason you can't start on Dr. Schubiners worksbook anyway! It comes under the heading of "it can't hurt", and in fact TMS knowledge and mindbody awareness are valuable for everyone - it's known that belief in the power of the mind over the body can aid in healing and recovery from injury and illness. So go for it!
Do the tests (as @Ellen said, we want to know that people have been medically checked) BUT - there's no reason you can't start on Dr. Schubiners worksbook anyway! It comes under the heading of "it can't hurt", and in fact TMS knowledge and mindbody awareness are valuable for everyone - it's known that belief in the power of the mind over the body can aid in healing and recovery from injury and illness. So go for it!
Baseball65
Beloved Grand Eagle
WE all have different patterns. I was like you.. I usually woke up only mildly in pain but it got worse as the day progressed. The difference in our patterns has more to do with conditioning than any structural problem (because there isn'T one)
At a certain level , TMS being like OCD, there isn't a long enough list of tests to run that will 'ease' my mind since the purpose of TMS is to scare mena dn keep me distracted. Even if God came down with a magic wand and healed me I'd still be "Well, yeah BUt......"
No tumor? No clear trauma like a Broken Bone? Prolly tMS
Thank you, yes i hope so too, right now i fall in more and more depression because of this and i dont engage in life at all anymore, major anxiety of those symptoms, you all tms sufferers know this for sure. I have many symptoms which are indeed tms confirmed. Only because of my most crippling symptom of which i am not yet 100% sure , i didnt start dr schubiners programm. Which is dumb for sure because i have tms haha. But all my focus is around this 1 thing. Maybe i should really just treat my other tms symptoms now with the Programm and see how it will influence my major thing. But i struggle to tell my brain the affirmations that i am not broken and i am healthy and strong and nothing is broken, because i didnt get checked out yet 100%. Thats why i didnt had the Courage to start yet. How can i tell this my brain for the other symptoms, if just this 1 thing is crippling me the most :/. Hope my words make sense, didnt speak english in a long time
Yea this conditioning thing makes sense. Haha yes indeed i feel the Same, all the doctors can tell me there is absolutly nothing, i am still scared and thinking that they miss something. Its so powerfull and distracting, good to know that others are thinking in the Same way
Ya, the thing is in my eyes. I really feel this tension/pressure under my eyes and inside my templates. Sometimes it feels like this thing is exploding under my eyes , the pressure gets so intense, and in the next Minute i feel like something is loosening up and letting go, then i realy feel relaxed again because my eyes feel relaxed. And 2 Minutes later the Same shi* is starting. I have realy bad visual disturbances too. Weak fusion in the distance, like someone who has a squint or is squinting. I see both images slowly fusion to one. But i dont even have a squint do the doctors say. MRI Was also clear but i feel like someone who has a Traumatic brain injury, but i had no accident nothing... oh man its eating my soul lol, first neurologic tests were clear thank god, i hope so in the next month too. I am only struggeling to believe its not structural because my whole visual System is out of Controle, but many here had some realy realy hard neurological symptoms i read. That gives me hope
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JanAtheCPA
Beloved Grand Eagle
@gx92, you might want to look at how your responses all contains examples of "Yes, But..." Syndrome.
I'm not quoting you directly below, but you've made statements very similar to these - these are examples from my observations over eleven years:
"Yes, I definitely agree, but..."
"That makes sense, but..."
"Part of me knows this is true, but..."
"I did not suffer an actual injury, but..."
"I know that most of my symptoms are TMS, but..."
"I know that I could get started on the program in spite of my doubts, but..."
There are many variations of this. "Yes, But..." Syndrome is a common TMS symptom for people just starting out. I would urge you to take this seriously and work on getting it under control early in your TMS journey. Stop, re-examine, and recognize when you are doing this, and then stop doing it. The antidote to "Yes, But..." is generally advised to be "Yes, And..." where "And" is followed by a constructive plan of action, or at least with recognition and acknowledgment that your TMS brain is trying to sabotage any possible progress.
It's important to know that this isn't you - it's your fearful TMS brain. But I also have to say that as long as your brain continues to have you respond to any advice or reassurance with some form of "Yes, But..." you will never progress.
Question: is there any benefit for you to obsess over a symptom that has yet to be tested? The answer is NO. Learning to talk back to your fearful brain is a really important skill to develop. Start by telling your fear brain that you are not interested in catastrophizing for no good reason, that you will get seen for this symptom when the appointment time comes, and that it's very unhealthy to waste time obsessing and catastrophizing until then.
Then start doing Dr. Schubiner's program. Concentrate on that instead of trying to describe your symptoms in detail to us. You might want to notice that in receiving advice and reassurance from four different people, no one said anything about symptom details. That's because on this forum, we are not medical professionals here, and everyone has different symptoms anyway.
You can report back about your emotional progress doing the workbook, and if you must refer to your symptoms, just say "eye symptoms" or "other TMS symptoms" and leave it at that.
And No More YBS!
All the best, and good luck!
~Jan
I'm not quoting you directly below, but you've made statements very similar to these - these are examples from my observations over eleven years:
"Yes, I definitely agree, but..."
"That makes sense, but..."
"Part of me knows this is true, but..."
"I did not suffer an actual injury, but..."
"I know that most of my symptoms are TMS, but..."
"I know that I could get started on the program in spite of my doubts, but..."
There are many variations of this. "Yes, But..." Syndrome is a common TMS symptom for people just starting out. I would urge you to take this seriously and work on getting it under control early in your TMS journey. Stop, re-examine, and recognize when you are doing this, and then stop doing it. The antidote to "Yes, But..." is generally advised to be "Yes, And..." where "And" is followed by a constructive plan of action, or at least with recognition and acknowledgment that your TMS brain is trying to sabotage any possible progress.
It's important to know that this isn't you - it's your fearful TMS brain. But I also have to say that as long as your brain continues to have you respond to any advice or reassurance with some form of "Yes, But..." you will never progress.
Question: is there any benefit for you to obsess over a symptom that has yet to be tested? The answer is NO. Learning to talk back to your fearful brain is a really important skill to develop. Start by telling your fear brain that you are not interested in catastrophizing for no good reason, that you will get seen for this symptom when the appointment time comes, and that it's very unhealthy to waste time obsessing and catastrophizing until then.
Then start doing Dr. Schubiner's program. Concentrate on that instead of trying to describe your symptoms in detail to us. You might want to notice that in receiving advice and reassurance from four different people, no one said anything about symptom details. That's because on this forum, we are not medical professionals here, and everyone has different symptoms anyway.
You can report back about your emotional progress doing the workbook, and if you must refer to your symptoms, just say "eye symptoms" or "other TMS symptoms" and leave it at that.
And No More YBS!
All the best, and good luck!
~Jan
Thanks for this advice, yea my fearful brain is a relentless machine and isnt quite for even 1 minute. Today i startet the programm, i got so many fearful obsessive thoughts its realy insane lol, no wonder all those symptoms stay alive
TG957
Beloved Grand Eagle
The weirder the symptoms are, the more likely they are TMS. Also, have in mind that some tests would be interpreted by non-TMS doctors as indication of structural problems, but in fact they are not. I had an EMG test that my neurologist said was clear indication of nerve damage, but I fully recovered, and my nerve is now pain-free.Yea i have seen some but the symptoms are so weird and intense i have to see two more specialists. I want to start with tms work but like you said, my mind is still not at ease because not everything was tested
Interesting yea, i also read that today in dr Schubiners book also. Because they are so weird, i realy struggle to become indifferent, but i try my best from day to day to freak out less. Would be even harder for me with the diagnosis you received. Was it hard for you to lose the fear even with this diagnosis?
TG957
Beloved Grand Eagle
It was very hard and took a long time. My symptoms were very bizarre and scary, and the official diagnosis was even scarier. But losing fear is more than half of your battle, so keep reading success stories and building up your confidence.
JanAtheCPA
Beloved Grand Eagle
@gx92 - for TG's complete and inspiring story, including her lengthy journey through the traditional medical diagnostic system, check out the e-book she wrote, mentioned in this thread: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/cts-carpal-tunnel-syndrome-crps-dystonia-raynauds-full-recovery.22242/#post-115344 (CTS(Carpal tunnel syndrome), CRPS, dystonia, Raynaud's - full recovery)
hi, as i am progressing in the Workbook, i feel a bit confused with this whole emotional stuff. I should feel my daily feelings and also let my negative thoughts just pass by like clouds in the sky and dont take them seariously. But there are so many emotions, i googled it lol. But what about worry? Does worry actually count as emotion which i should feel in my body? Because sometimes Dr Schubiner talks about emotions and counts in worry. I find myself constantly over analyzing..... I feel like i am "thinking" my emotions instead of just "feeling" it in my body. I want to quite my mind and just feel....
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JanAtheCPA
Beloved Grand Eagle
I think that most people heer would tell you that "worry" is simply anxiety by another name, and anxiety is just another TMS symptom that presents mentally instead of physically. It is a great distraction. The entire goal of your TMS brain is to keep you worried, instead of seeing, acknowledging, and experiencing your deepest, most repressed, most negative and most dangerous emotions - the ones which were developed in childhood.
I'm sensing an extreme level of anxiety in your writing. Do you by any chance also suffer from OCD symptoms?
Also, have you ever heard of the ACEs test? This is a set of ten simple questions about Adverse Childhood Experiences, and anyone can look it up and answer the Yes/No questions for themselves, either using an easy online version, or by noting your Yes answers on a piece of paper. There is nothing technical about scoring it, either - you either had one or more experiences of adversity in your childhood, from a list of ten, or you did not. The hard part for some will be answering the questions honestly if they are really repressing some bad stuff. And then, of course, there's what to do with the results, which is not straightforward (the NPR article discusses that).
My score is technically zero, but one of the questions asks if, before age 18, you often felt (I'm paraphrasing the text) emotionally insignificant in your family. The thing is, before doing this work, I would have said absolutely not. But in doing this work, I opened up to feeling my emotions as a very young child, say 4 to 7 years old, and to my surprise, I discovered that way back then, I actually felt very isolated and awkward. But it didn't last, and my TMS brain effectively repressed those memories. The explanation is that I was the first kid, born to an older mother with zero experience around children or babies, who'd had a miscarriage, and who was extremely anxious during and after her pregnancy with me. In addition to explaining my lifelong anxiety (yes, I do blame my mother!), it's obvious that I would have had her complete and devoted attention for almost two years (and I did, she loved her kids) until my first sibling came along, which was okay, until the third one arrived when I was almost 4. I never realized she had anxiety until she told me years later, because she no longer had it after having four kids, and she (along with my dad) was actually a wonderful parent. However I suspect that things were very chaotic when I was about 4-7 years old, until the youngest was out of diapers and past the Terrible Twos, right? Since I was very self-sufficient, I would have been left on my own quite a lot while our mom dealt with a baby plus a toddler during those years. All I had remembered was a family that did a lot of fun things together, and my mom taking me out of school every once in a while to treat me to special outings - all of which took place after I was at least 8 or 9.
The point of my lengthy story? Perhaps to illustrate how childhood stuff impacts us, even when we had excellent childhoods. So maybe my ACEs score isn't zero (maybe it's a .2 based on the limited time I experienced it?) but it doesn't matter - what matters is that I figured out an important piece of my childhood by doing the emotional work in the SEP and by listening to Alan Gordon's webinars from back in 2012 or so (links are in my profile info), and it provided a key to letting go of my anxiety and accepting that isolation is an important human emotion that must be faced when it exists.
All it takes is one or two more serious adverse experiences to seriously affect mental health for life. So if your brain is blocking you from calming down enough to do the work, perhaps take the test (with 100% honesty!) and see what comes up for you. Here is a good place for it: Take The ACE Quiz — And Learn What It Does And Doesn't Mean : Shots - Health News : NPR - be sure to read the whole article before and after answering the questions. Maybe it will help you get a handle on what you are looking for when you are asked to examine your deep emotions. Or maybe your anxiety is just too extreme for you to be able to do a self-help program, in which case therapy would be recommended.
I'm sensing an extreme level of anxiety in your writing. Do you by any chance also suffer from OCD symptoms?
Also, have you ever heard of the ACEs test? This is a set of ten simple questions about Adverse Childhood Experiences, and anyone can look it up and answer the Yes/No questions for themselves, either using an easy online version, or by noting your Yes answers on a piece of paper. There is nothing technical about scoring it, either - you either had one or more experiences of adversity in your childhood, from a list of ten, or you did not. The hard part for some will be answering the questions honestly if they are really repressing some bad stuff. And then, of course, there's what to do with the results, which is not straightforward (the NPR article discusses that).
My score is technically zero, but one of the questions asks if, before age 18, you often felt (I'm paraphrasing the text) emotionally insignificant in your family. The thing is, before doing this work, I would have said absolutely not. But in doing this work, I opened up to feeling my emotions as a very young child, say 4 to 7 years old, and to my surprise, I discovered that way back then, I actually felt very isolated and awkward. But it didn't last, and my TMS brain effectively repressed those memories. The explanation is that I was the first kid, born to an older mother with zero experience around children or babies, who'd had a miscarriage, and who was extremely anxious during and after her pregnancy with me. In addition to explaining my lifelong anxiety (yes, I do blame my mother!), it's obvious that I would have had her complete and devoted attention for almost two years (and I did, she loved her kids) until my first sibling came along, which was okay, until the third one arrived when I was almost 4. I never realized she had anxiety until she told me years later, because she no longer had it after having four kids, and she (along with my dad) was actually a wonderful parent. However I suspect that things were very chaotic when I was about 4-7 years old, until the youngest was out of diapers and past the Terrible Twos, right? Since I was very self-sufficient, I would have been left on my own quite a lot while our mom dealt with a baby plus a toddler during those years. All I had remembered was a family that did a lot of fun things together, and my mom taking me out of school every once in a while to treat me to special outings - all of which took place after I was at least 8 or 9.
The point of my lengthy story? Perhaps to illustrate how childhood stuff impacts us, even when we had excellent childhoods. So maybe my ACEs score isn't zero (maybe it's a .2 based on the limited time I experienced it?) but it doesn't matter - what matters is that I figured out an important piece of my childhood by doing the emotional work in the SEP and by listening to Alan Gordon's webinars from back in 2012 or so (links are in my profile info), and it provided a key to letting go of my anxiety and accepting that isolation is an important human emotion that must be faced when it exists.
All it takes is one or two more serious adverse experiences to seriously affect mental health for life. So if your brain is blocking you from calming down enough to do the work, perhaps take the test (with 100% honesty!) and see what comes up for you. Here is a good place for it: Take The ACE Quiz — And Learn What It Does And Doesn't Mean : Shots - Health News : NPR - be sure to read the whole article before and after answering the questions. Maybe it will help you get a handle on what you are looking for when you are asked to examine your deep emotions. Or maybe your anxiety is just too extreme for you to be able to do a self-help program, in which case therapy would be recommended.
Thanks for this reply, yes i do have high anxiety and a bit ocd, mostly in the Form of body dysmorphia. I tried to discover my childhood manytimes but i have such a bad memory. To be honest i dont know much. I can count it on 2 hands. I know for sure that i had some problems in shool but i also dont know realy much. I am always suprised that many people know things from there childhood in Such a detail. My mind is just empty lol. I only know it wasnt that bad but your Story showed that even with good childhood, bad emotions are created. Maybe i should talk with a Tms therapist to quite my mind and ease this whole process for me. Its just very confusing for me because i do have Anxiety and worry alot. Sometimes Dr schubiner is speaking about Anxiety as an Emotion with i should feel then he speaks about Anxiety is an MBS symptom. Same with worry, sometimes i hear that worry should be an Emotion so i need to feel it if a Symptom shows up in my Body. Then People say Worry is just Anxiety . I dont know im just confused, especially if i feel Anxiety, i dont know if its fear or this...This whole confusion makes me realy mad sadly
Edit: I feel emberessed now but i think i understand it all, exectly my personality and thought patterns , worry ,are feeding into this beast. I got some AH Moment yesterday in me
Edit: I feel emberessed now but i think i understand it all, exectly my personality and thought patterns , worry ,are feeding into this beast. I got some AH Moment yesterday in me
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JanAtheCPA
Beloved Grand Eagle
There you go. Now, don't let your TMS brain cover this up. Instead, remember this, and use it to feel compassion for your poor fearful brain. Be willing to talk to to your brain and calm it down. It's just trying to protect you, but it's going about it the wrong way, that's all!