1. Our TMS drop-in chat is today (Saturday) from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM DST Eastern U.S.(New York). It's a great way to get quick and interactive peer support. JanAtheCPA is today's host. Click here for more info or just look for the red flag on the menu bar at 3pm Eastern.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this updated link: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/painrecovery/
    Dismiss Notice

Idiopathic Neuropathy

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by Bicepmuffins, Oct 18, 2022.

  1. Bicepmuffins

    Bicepmuffins Peer Supporter

    Hi, I have TMS. That much I know and I have some new symptoms that aren't like my normal TMS. It terrified and I'm convinced it's not TMS but alas desparation leads me here again.

    I get stabs, paper cuts, cold feeling, burns and dull throbs all over my body. It
    started mild and intermittent and has ramped up over months, recently being the worst. Basic scans and blood tests show nothing significant.

    Reasons it's like my normal TMS.
    - It started as I was quitting weed which is a known trigger for new symptoms
    - It's intermittent
    - not always but I tend to wake up in less pain
    - recently I've had stress in my life

    Reasons it's not like TMS
    - it can happen when I'm completely distracted
    - its not in any particular area, it's everywhere
    - it's several sensations at different intensities
    - idk, it's not being particularly suspicious other than have no obvious cause

    Right now my brain thinks I'm going to slowly decay into pain and madness and die, which is possible, but I'd love it to be TMS again.

  2. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

    The reasons you list for "not like TMS" are all classic tms. Idiopathic anything is TMS. It's all TMS. All anxiety. Lose the doubt because there is nothing wrong with you.
  3. Bicepmuffins

    Bicepmuffins Peer Supporter

    I have 1 doubt and 1 fear.

    The doubt: for me is how the symptom is presenting. Its sporadic and everywhere. Most stories indicate a particular area of numbness or an affect body part but this isn't matching a lot of those reference stories. I have every reason to have a TMS flare up. My dad died, im moving, i had other angers and stress. I usually get convinced at first that its an illness, think my lifes over and then eventually Sarno through it but this is a little less in the normal TMS box for me.

    The fear: is the pain. It can feel like im being stabbed with a sewing needle in the tip of my toes. Ill be sitting here, ignoring it and telling myself its TMS. Ill feel fine and then boom, bad random pain and my fear stirs up.

    Ill do the emotional work, im just really resisting and I feel like my experience is TMS on steroids compared to having sciatica or tennis elbow or something isolated to one area and not intense in sensation.
  4. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

    So sorry for the loss of your dad. That is certainly enough to generate symptoms alone. Symptom profiles run the gamut and the timing and themes are linked to emotions, doubt, and lack of alignment with the self...or any combo of those 3 categories. I had widespread, migratory, bizarre symptoms and physiological changes that were all tms under the guise of the label CRPS. If you enter my name here, you can find videos and my success story where I recount all my gory symptoms in the abyss lol. Many members of the forum have similar stories as well. This is all par for the course. Fear and doubt are what fuels symptoms in a recurrent or constant way that appear "chronic". The onset and uptick of symptoms are linked to emotional themes or stressful situations.
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2022
    Cactusflower and Bicepmuffins like this.
  5. Bicepmuffins

    Bicepmuffins Peer Supporter

    I appreciate your sympathies. I can’t lie. I’m scared. I wish I thought of TMS sooner before the symptoms led me to thinking outside of the box. It started barely noticeable and now its like a man with a sewing needle is going to pop out at any time and prick me lol

    I’ll look up some of your stories. Some part of me needs to see or hear a story that is somewhat similar to fully resign to the benefits.

    what I’m finding difficult is that usually TMS for me is more constant and in a particular body part. How do I tune out a random stab that can come anywhere at anytime? If I overcome this I swear I’ll believe anything is possible
  6. Cactusflower

    Cactusflower Beloved Grand Eagle

    Ah, the random stabs and electrical jolts!
    I have had them and occasionally still do. Starting a tms program, any program will help you stick with it and be accountable to yourself. It will also help you learn refocusing skills and how to slowly change your mindset and reframe responses to these sensations.
    I started with fear and panic attacks yet I knew there was nothing physically wrong. So I began to internally reply to these sensation with “oh, that was a muscle”. Then in a few days I began to teach myself “my thoughts make me tense, my muscles get tense” in another few days “ suppressing emotions gives me sensations”.. slowly changing my automatic thought patterns. Within two weeks I could ask myself: “ what am I feeling emotionally” when I’d have a symptom, or say to myself “that hurt but here I am, and I’m fine right now”. Within months I could laugh at these symptoms. Sometimes they are fierce and I have to forcibly re-direct my mind a thousand times in 5 minutes. But I always start by attending to emotions, being ok with them, acknowledging them and then refocusing. It may feel frustrating but I just remind myself I’m retraining my brain.
    You will find your own methods that work for you. It just takes time. It will get better.
    Bicepmuffins likes this.
  7. Bicepmuffins

    Bicepmuffins Peer Supporter

    thanks for the thoughtful reply. I can tell that the part of me that believes it’s TMS in some ways can laugh at it with the exception of some of the more intense sensations which require me to grin and bear it and I try to follow those moments with more self talk and redirection.

    It’s helpful emotionally and reduces the appearance of the pain. I’m not 100% convinced that mine isn’t structural. I have a few images in my head of how I could be wrong which stinks.

    so would you say your pain condition is reversing or would you say that you’re not a slave to the feelings anymore which reduces the perceived intensity?

    If what I’m experiencing worsens it’ll be hard to not be somewhat living in fear of the next random sewing needle to the finger feeling
  8. Cactusflower

    Cactusflower Beloved Grand Eagle

    It might get worse, or other symptoms could arise...especially if you feel you have been avoiding doing the inner work. I had incredible anxiety - teeth grinding, hand wringing anxiety.... crazy stuff like not being able to wear certain clothing, hear certain noises or see certain topics. But I recognized it was two things: my nervous system being so out of wack and my brain trying to protect me from any perceived danger. I saw a tms therapist who gave me some great short meditations and an early mantra: I am safe in this moment. Once again, I just slowly "spread" that mantra out towards those things that were causing me such extreme symptoms or that were current triggers (not life long triggers). Reading the news - I am safe right now, I don't like this - it makes me angry and afraid but I am safe in this moment as I read this. Same with sensations: Oh, that hurts - but I'm totally safe, I'm alive and of good health, and safe. To "I have no proof that ANYTHING AT ALL is wrong with me" - reminding myself of my Dr. visits, my neurosurgeon... nothing should be causing me this much pain.... except, of course a nervous system that is on very high alert because I'm focusing all my energy on my suffering, panic, and, once I turned deeper - towards things I was not facing, aspects of my personality that perpetuated things.
    I know at this moment to you, it seems moment to moment. But gradually over time it will soften and, yes. I am no longer AS MUCH of a slave to things that were perpetuating pain. It doesn't mean that I am suddenly transformed and that those things still aren't a challenge. Life is a learning lesson - it just means I have an awareness and an acceptance and have relaxed my desire to constantly control the things I can not control and control the things I can, like how I respond to thoughts, allowing my feelings and being accepting of myself and others.
    The free SEP program on this website does go through reframing thoughts of all kinds, so does Dr. Schubiner's book Unlearn Your Pain. Check out @miffybunny's posts and interviews she's done on youtube with other TMS pro's. Her story is amazing - where she was and how far she has come and how she was able to totally change her perceptions of herself and her world to become chronic pain free. You don't have to be 100% sold on TMS theory to start the work. A little doubt is fine, because it will begin to fade away as you work through any program and see even a little progress.
    miffybunny likes this.
  9. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    Stellar advice from forum stars @miffybunny and @Cactusflower.

    This is a perfect example of how our unconscious fearful brains react when you stop responding "appropriately" (with fear) to the old familiar symptoms. This is your brain on TMS, my friend.

    I don't know how old you are, or your dad was, but losing a parent is devastating in so many ways, starting with the loss of half your roots. That happened to me at 30. Losing my mother 33 years later when she was 93 was sad, but completely different.

    Losing someone too early can feel like abandonment, and it's important to acknowledge that and feel it and accept that it's normal to feel abandoned, and to have deep emotional childish rage about it.

    It's also important to get in touch with your own fear about mortality. That, after all, is what the TMS brain mechanism is all about, right? It's all about survival, which is why we instinctively fear death.

    Having anger about being abandoned, and fearing the truth about our own mortality, both feel incredibly selfish at a time when someone else has lost their life, which makes both of these emotions ripe for repression. Doing the work means facing these emotions honestly and without fear, and ultimately accepting them, and yourself, as normal and okay.
    miffybunny likes this.
  10. Bicepmuffins

    Bicepmuffins Peer Supporter

    Since I have been approaching this new symptom set with TMS I have noticed periods where it seemed like mental distraction was helping and then others where I had doubts. I still experience full strength moments but because I am 90% in belief that its TMS, im not overreacting and obsessing. I am actively trying to not think about it but it keeps presenting itself. If it was a constant sensation that would be easier but its intermittent, severe and anywhere on my body. . I am usually very good at adapting to new problems after a brief period of total doom and panic with it. I have a long list of TMS symptoms that have abated over the years. It definitely seemed like if I didn't address the TMS then it would progress. It also seemed like each new flare up was a new type of TMS that was equally as convincing as the last. If this lets up it will be hard to imagine what kind of TMS it can come up with next that will be more convincing that this and im going to try to get in front of it and not let it build up again bc this is really rough.

    I have had some miracle moments with TMS where my symptoms would finally, somewhat permanently go away and others that took time and slowly reduced in frequency and intensity over time to the point where I forgot it exists for the most part so im hopeful this is the pattern this will take. I wouldn't say I have unaddressed emotions. Im aware it sucks my dad died. I know people piss me off. I know im scared right now of my mortality and feeling a sense of stress and pressure on moving. I have had a lot of difficult emotions and i have cried and went through periods of repression as well while gaming obsessively for a few months shortly after developing the tinnitus portion.

    I guess, if im being honest, I overestimated my emotional capabilities and even though I have pretty good emotional habits, I could be doing a lot more like meditating daily instead of once a month or something. I appreciate the replies here. Im sure you know already how helpful it is to talk with people and drink the punch together.
  11. Bicepmuffins

    Bicepmuffins Peer Supporter

    you mean to say that its a good example of how TMS adapts and finds weird unbelievable ways to hit you the next time? Gotta love that symptom imperative. This is where my fear is, where most peoples fears are with TMS. I don't know its TMS until its in the past and TMS by definition convinces you. My symptoms have taken a unique shape and the relatable testimonials in the forums are starting to dwindle in number bc the firstline TMS symptoms of sciatica or carpel tunnel aren't enough anymore to distract me. And when I try to imagine what my body is doing its difficult. I have a lot of questions and doubts and an equally, if not stronger, case that dispels those doubts. But I have to ride the doubts roller coaster yet again. When does it end? Am I this bad with my emotions still?

    I also have been experiencing visual disturbances. Little spots and flashes but the eye doctor says im fine. Its also random and seems related to stress and doesn't fit any particular diagnosis. the TMS possibilities seem potentially infinite
  12. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    Have you ever done "the work"? Or have you been operating on basic TMS knowledge, experiencing what is essentially the book cure?
  13. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

    Your posts scream of doubt which is a common cause for stuckness and snowballing of symptoms. Your best bet is to employ logic and science to counter the doubt, as well as trusting in this proven approach. Check out Dr. Dan Ratner channel "Crushing Doubt" and look into his doubt seminar or support groups. I think it would greatly benefit you!
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2022
  14. cain aven

    cain aven Peer Supporter

    I had the stabs and burning pain in the hands and feet. It took me over 5 years for the sensations to fade. Even though I was 'convinced' it was stress based (and told the same by a neurologist), the pain was so intense and mentally consuming, I was sure something was 'wrong' with me and I often wondered if I would ever get better. Although mine was in a specific place, there are tons of stories of people getting stabs/zaps/burning all over the body, because the brain decided to transmit its stress/distraction in that manner.

    I recommend searching for the post 'Key to Healing' on this forum. It has some great practical advise on containing stress and controlling the interior dialogue of worry, which is amplifying your discomfort. I've been using this for my own current symptoms (mostly tinnitus) and it really works wonders for redirecting the mind's focus.
    Bicepmuffins likes this.
  15. Bicepmuffins

    Bicepmuffins Peer Supporter

    I'd like to think so. I used to be totally controlled by negative emotions (MDD / GAD) for years and now I see negative emotions as a useful tool to help identify things that aren't suiting my best interests. I haven't done any work for my TMS outside of the past couple of days bc I didn't think I had TMS flaring up but although I have had a lot of anger and negative emotion this year, I cried, I meditated, I exercised and socialized and treated myself pretty well. I try therapy here and there but I usually find it pointless as I think about my life a lot and do plenty of self adjusting. The work I have done since my fathers passing has just been drugs and crying so thats not great but I have thought on it a lot. And the symptoms worsened the next day after a fight with my brother that got me worked up pretty good.

    What I do right now for TMS. Self talk, emotional reprogramming, listing things that anger me, education materials, this forum and distraction but I know that when I quit the weed in a couple weeks, its going to really stress me out for a little and then I will be much more capable of meditating and become more patient in general.
  16. Bicepmuffins

    Bicepmuffins Peer Supporter

    Thanks for your reply. I too recently fought tinnitus using TMS and I only really notice it now when I think about it and its not that bothersome at all. Its great to hear you finally got over it. Why do you think it took 5 years? Did you try something new that got you over the finish line? I often found very immediate TMS relief, sometimes it would take a couple weeks before I could tell it was dwindling.
  17. Bicepmuffins

    Bicepmuffins Peer Supporter

    Very true! but isn't that the name of the game? TMS finds your doubts and leverages them against you. Ill look into the materials. You probably can see what I am going through more clearly than I can from the outside. Right now the biggest thing I need to keep reminding myself is that symptom relief is not linear right now. :)
  18. cain aven

    cain aven Peer Supporter

    I think it just dwindled. I wasn't using TMS. I'd studied the stuff over at anxietycentre (which is basically identical to Sarno's approach, just a little more detailed in some respects) but the results were not immediate for me to 'give up' my self-medication for getting through work/parenthood (copious amounts of caffeine and tobacco in the late evening, as it killed the pain and let me sleep). I think going into remote and not working quite so hard might have something to do with the recovery, as it dwindled across 2020 to 2021. But other symptoms emerged because I hadn't dealt with the actual cause of the anxiety or really learned to take control of my inner voices.

    I think some of your issues now are pretty obvious: when you stop 'self-medicating', you feel worse for a while. My anxiety and stress increased pretty severely when I quit smoking last year, and I had a pretty bad week+ when I quit caffeine, as the stress hormones were 'masking' to some extent my condition, and with that mask off, the totality came crashing in.
    Bicepmuffins likes this.
  19. Bicepmuffins

    Bicepmuffins Peer Supporter

    Without these resources I would have never made it there myself. I had some skepticism but going full cold turkey on all babying and full force into what I was avoiding really blasted it away. Exercise has been helping as well I think to convince your body your not scared to move.

    yeah, I am starting to understand now what my body perceives at stress and a threat and before I used to assume it was the old emotions coming up just due to life events. But I think with the substances and the video games and the funeral, my mind is constantly under tension right now and it’ll get a little worse before it gets better when I drop em.

    lesson learned. I will have to take my mental health more seriously. You already know how bad this pain can feel
  20. cain aven

    cain aven Peer Supporter

    The video games can increase the hyperstimulation as well. Trust me, I love 'em, and they helped me get through the 4-5 year part where i really started to think the pain wasn't ever going to go away... but I've really had to start restricting myself on digital stimulaiton, because the tinnitus was/is really, really annoying. Over at anxietycentre they really emphasize how excessive stimulation can perpetuate or worsen the symptoms, I don't see that emphasized here but I can certainly tell a difference now that I'm caffeine free, the mind is more calm and it is easier to detect and correct anxious thoughts and/or manage patiently when the symptoms spike. By the way, I do still get little twinges of the old pain, but nothing like what it was (at one point it was like walking on hot coals, or having knives stabbed into my feet) and if I dismiss it, it immediately goes away.

Share This Page