I have muscle tension dysphonia, could I have TMS?

Jakedrum

Jakedrum

New Member
Hello,

I'm new to this forum. I've ordered the Mind/Body prescription book by Dr John Sarno.
While I wait for its arrival I thought it worth asking if any of you have any experience of TMS affecting the voice?

I've been diagnosed with Muscle Tension Dysphonia (MTD). When I speak its like I'm trying to talk while someone is standing on my throat. I have had this building up for three years and its been acute for about a year.
I've had doctors, surgeons and voice therapists trying to determine what is wrong. They reckon its MTD. The only treatments they offer are voice therapy and cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT).
I've been attending voice therapy and doing the exercises for about a year to no effect. It can help me vocalise but it doesn't last.
I'm on the waiting list for CBT.

I can sing and I can do silly voices. I can't talk in what was my normal voice.

This has become a horrid and all-consuming nightmare. It affects my whole life, at work and at home.

I could go on about my woes. There is no need. I feel that many of you will understand the feelings I have been experiencing. I want to know if this sounds like TMS to you lot.
Has anyone had it affect their voice?
Did Sarno's work help?

I look forward to reading your responses should you get the time to read my post.

Thank you.

Jake
 
Hi Jake:

Welcome to the forum. You have an interesting issue that had me recall a memory of my own. Perhaps it might help you.

When I was younger, I used to sing quite a bit. I had a pretty good singing voice and was known for "belting it out". I had a big performance scheduled when suddenly I couldn't talk, let alone sing. I was panicked, and so my was my family. My dad (my hero) found me a voice teacher for advice and she suggested several things that brought my voice back to performance level. I was in high school and looking back, I think I was terrified of this performance and promptly lost my voice. I was also insecure and looking for attention at that time from my dad.

You have seen a doctor which we always recommend you do, and you say nothing has happened. You can do "silly voices". I found that part interesting as perhaps there is something blocking you from "speaking your truth." Perhaps it's in your work or relationship.

It certainly can't hurt to look into Dr. Sarno's books and suggestions. There is also a Structured Program on the wiki if after you've read the book, you see yourself. It is a wonderful exploration that will help you to find the answers you seek. It's hard to say whether or not this is TMS/PPD, but exploration of the issue through the book and also the wiki can be really helpful. You'll know. Most everyone with TMS/PPD sees themselves soon after reading the book or poking around the wiki.

I can't tell you that you have TMS/PPD, but I do think you're moving in the right direction.

As you explore the wiki - and if you have any further questions, please come back and ask. There is always someone to help with your questions and support you through this issue.

Best of luck to you - hope you regain your voice again very soon.

BG
 
Hi Jake, a few years ago I had a similar problem. I went through a period at a previous job unable to speak when interviewing clients. When I opened my mouth to speak I would start to choke. I had to apologise profusely on many occasions. I would get very frustrated and anxious. At the time I was in a job that I liked but where I felt unsupported by my superiors. As a result I lacked confidence in my abilities and this is most likely why when I tried to speak, I often couldn't get the words out. I changed jobs eventually. Still working in an advisory position I was by this time much better supported and felt more confident. Whenever I started to choke I would remain calm. I always kept some water and some candy nearby. Eventually I no longer experienced any choking. This was all before I had heard of Dr Sarno so I guess I already had some awareness of the role of stress and fear in physical symptoms.

When did this all start with you? What was going on in your life at the time?

You mention being able to use your voice to sing and talk in silly voices. Whenever you witness these 'exceptions to the rule', you can bet there is something going on that is not physical.
 
Hi Jake:

Beach Girl mentioned the Structured Educational Program on the wiki (tmswiki.org). I would like to double-emphasize that as a great place to start. I had many different TMS symptoms over many years. Reading my first Dr. Sarno book made sense to me, but it wasn't until I started doing the SEP (and taking it seriously) that I started having a noticeable reduction of symptoms. I'm 90-100% symptom-free most of the time now (I could be 100% if I practiced more mindfulness!). In any case, it was a real life-changer.

You've been recommended for CBT - so your medical practitioners already think that the problem could be emotional. And you already know that emotionally-based physical symptoms, by Dr. Sarno's definition, are TMS. Also called by some practitioners MBS (Mind-Body Syndrome), or sometimes PPD (Psychophysiologic Disorders) or, to use a phrase that has fallen out of favor: psychosomatic illness. Take your pick - we're not talking about a black & white condition like, say, a broken bone, it's all kind of squishy when we're talking about the brain - literally :^)

What I'm trying to say is: if the medical pros think that CBT could help, then you might as well feel free to call it TMS, and I don't think that's a stretch!

One thing you will learn as you study the TMS resources is that CB therapists might not understand the emotional basis of TMS. Many of our members' back stories include trying CBT without a whole lot of significant success. That's not to say that a CB therapist can't include TMS treatment in their practice - it's just that many don't know about it (yet)(!)

Anyway, go ahead and try the Structured Ed Program - it's just reading and journaling, it's free, it can't hurt, and you will be taking action which in itself will feel good.

There's also a page on the wiki devoted to finding a TMS practitioner in your area, and as we discussed today on the Saturday chat, many of them are available to do therapy by phone - strange but true, and many people have found help that way.

Good luck, and keep us posted, we're rooting for you!

Jan
 
Dr. Howard Schubiner is a long time staunch supporter of the PPD / TMS Peer Network and at one point even offered to donate a portion of all proceeds from his online program to our nonprofit. We ended up declining his generous offer because we know how important it is to let the public know that we are completely financially independent of all PPD / TMS practitioners and represent only Peers with PPD / TMS, but the offer was gratefully appreciated (we need people to know that we recommend his program only because it is excellent and not because it diminishes our need to get donations from other sources). Because we are a volunteer run organization, our expenses are extraordinarily low, so it isn't that hard to raise the money that we need. In general, volunteer organizations take an extremely high amount of work to set up (for example, as of today, I've sent 4259 emails from the account that I use for TMS Wiki work. I've pretty much been working on this almost full time for three years), but once you've set them up, you've created something truly amazing. As you can see from the hard work of the volunteer Forum Support Team who run this forum, we've got an amazing team. They're the people with "administrator" or "Forum Support" below their pictures.

.... anyway ... (sorry, I can get sidetracked sometimes :)) Howard also gave us permission to use all of his blog posts wherever we want on the wiki. I thought that the original poster might find the following blog post helpful. Howard wrote it after watching "The King's Speech."
​
MBS BLOG # 31–The King’s Speech as Mind Body Syndrome: Finding your voice and reclaiming your life

Written by Dr. Schubiner on February 20, 2011
If you’ve seen the movie, The King’s Speech, you will immediately recognize that the king suffered from a form of Mind Body Syndrome. He had a very difficult childhood, despite (or because of) being a prince. His parents were not present (as was the custom for those days and that class) and his major source of “parental” affection was from his nanny. Unfortunately, his nanny favored his older brother who tormented him and therefore George grew up feeling less worthy, unloved, and unable to assert himself. All of this eventually led to the expression of his underlying emotional conflicts in his stammer. The origin of his stammer was clear (it was the physical manifestation of underlying psychological issues). Why did it persist for so many years? The answer is that it became a learned nerve pathway. That pattern of speech became ingrained into his nervous system over time and that was the natural way that his brain processed the signals when he was required to speak. Of course, the stammer would be more severe under times of stress, but it couldn’t be reversed until he had treatment that helped to uncover the underlying conflicts and conscious application of methods to reverse the nerve pathways.

Stuttering (or stammering, I believe these can be used interchangeably) is quite common in children. I don’t recall this, but my mother told me that I started to stutter right after my sister was born. I guess I was used to being the “prince” in my household until she came along to usurp my parents attention. Fortunately, it didn’t last too long. My mother got me to sing songs (the stutter disappeared during singing) much of the time, gave me extra attention, and the nerve pathways reversed over time.

Stuttering typically begins in childhood, but there is another form of stress-induced speech disorder that usually begins later in life that is similar to stuttering, spasmodic dysphonia. This condition occurs primarily in young adults (ages 30-50) and is more likely to affect women, which is similar to the demographics of those who suffer from Mind Body syndromes, such as headaches, fibromyalgia, back and neck pain, and irritable bowel and bladder syndromes. There is no known abnormality of the vocal cords, per se. The difficulty in speaking is variable, can be made worse with stress, and may not occur during singing or speaking in high pitched voices (when slightly different nerve pathways are activated, as apparently my mother figured out when trying to help my stuttering). Some professional singers suffer from this condition and can have difficulty in singing.

When I have conducted detailed interviews with people with spasmodic dysphonia, the typical pattern emotional events that create MBS are present. We find childhood priming events (such as emotional, physical or sexual abuse, or situations similar to those experienced by the later King George) and triggering events later in life (such as losses, situations that trigger the “danger” signals, etc.) that produce the nerve pathways leading to the characteristic speech pattern of spasmodic dysphonia.


When one reads the medical literature about spasmodic dysphonia, the notion that this disorder can be caused by psychological distress is soundly dismissed. But that is also the case for the rest of the MBS disorders. For example, those with chronic fatigue syndrome are insulted when this notion is broached and the recent study showing that psychotherapy can help chronic fatigue syndrome is criticized by the support groups that would rather be afflicted with a virus, that may be incurable than entertain the possibility of being able to reverse the severe fatigue by psychological means.

Reversing stuttering and spasmodic dysphonia is the same as for other manifestations of MBS. The first step requires a clear understanding that the symptoms are real; they are not imagined, nor are they produced willfully, but are created by powerful nervous system pathways that will continue to trigger symptoms until they are stopped. The second step is to realize that one can get better. This is not a genetic condition (there may be genetic predispositions, but these require environmental triggers to be expressed, and can be reversed). This is not a degenerative neurologic condition such as Parkinson’s disease. It is reversible, so there is the strong possibility that one can improve and reverse the condition with MBS treatment. The third step is to investigate the circumstances (starting with childhood events and carefully exploring the situations that triggered the symptoms) that created the speech problems. An open and detailed review of one’s life will generally make the connections quite obvious. A guide to this process is available in my book, Unlearn Your Pain (chapter 5).

Once these steps have occurred, it should be clear that the actual diagnosis is Mind Body syndrome and this usually releases a great deal of positive energy that is necessary to unlock the nervous system pathways that keep one stuck in the abnormal speech patterns (or other symptoms of MBS). The treatment program outlined in Unlearn Your Pain includes a variety of therapeutic writing exercises, meditative exercises, positive affirmations, and other exercises that are designed to help people reverse their symptoms. Conscious processes can override the learned nerve pathways and this is the beauty of treating MBS—the majority of people experience significant or dramatic improvements. As with King George, when one “finds their voice” they can reclaim their life.

To your health,
Howard Schubiner, MD
Click to expand...
 
JanAtheCPA said:
Hi Jake:

Beach Girl mentioned the Structured Educational Program on the wiki (tmswiki.org). I would like to double-emphasize that as a great place to start. I had many different TMS symptoms over many years. Reading my first Dr. Sarno book made sense to me, but it wasn't until I started doing the SEP (and taking it seriously) that I started having a noticeable reduction of symptoms. I'm 90-100% symptom-free most of the time now (I could be 100% if I practiced more mindfulness!). In any case, it was a real life-changer.

You've been recommended for CBT - so your medical practitioners already think that the problem could be emotional. And you already know that emotionally-based physical symptoms, by Dr. Sarno's definition, are TMS. Also called by some practitioners MBS (Mind-Body Syndrome), or sometimes PPD (Psychophysiologic Disorders) or, to use a phrase that has fallen out of favor: psychosomatic illness. Take your pick - we're not talking about a black & white condition like, say, a broken bone, it's all kind of squishy when we're talking about the brain - literally :^)

What I'm trying to say is: if the medical pros think that CBT could help, then you might as well feel free to call it TMS, and I don't think that's a stretch!

One thing you will learn as you study the TMS resources is that CB therapists might not understand the emotional basis of TMS. Many of our members' back stories include trying CBT without a whole lot of significant success. That's not to say that a CB therapist can't include TMS treatment in their practice - it's just that many don't know about it (yet)(!)

Anyway, go ahead and try the Structured Ed Program - it's just reading and journaling, it's free, it can't hurt, and you will be taking action which in itself will feel good.

There's also a page on the wiki devoted to finding a TMS practitioner in your area, and as we discussed today on the Saturday chat, many of them are available to do therapy by phone - strange but true, and many people have found help that way.

Good luck, and keep us posted, we're rooting for you!

Jan
Click to expand...

Thank you all of you. Your replies have been so warm and welcoming. Thank you very much.
I do appreciate that CBT may not be as useful as I would like but its worth a try I suppose not least because its available on the NHS - I'm in the UK and for now healthcare is free, where available.

I've started to read Dr Sarno's book 'The MindBody Prescription' and am finding that I'm nodding a lot. Really a lot. The rage, the split of conscious and unconscious especially the one where on the one side I'm concerned for others and the opposite being self-involved and narcissistic. Made me smile because it's ring of truth for me is quite loud!

I will have a good look through the Structured Program on the wiki.
I'm going through so much emotionally at the moment due to the loss of my speaking voice and then reading Sarno's work I realise that I have a lot of work to do.

Thanks for the support. Thanks very much.

Jake
 
Jakedrum said:
Thank you all of you. Your replies have been so warm and welcoming. Thank you very much.
Click to expand...

Well, we wish the absolute best for you. We've been there, too, so we know how hard and scary it is. But know this: you can recover. You've got the strength and if you keep doing the work, I have no doubt that you will get better.

Please keep us updated to let us know how it goes. We're all rooting for you!
 
JanAtheCPA said:
Check out the UK practitioners on Find A TMS Practitioner: http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist#United_Kingdom
It's a lot smaller country than the US, LOL - and many TMS practitioners are willing to do counseling over the phone, so you never know.
- Jan
Click to expand...
Yes, Georgie Oldfield is particularly good and very dedicated. I think that once you've been diagnosed, she's willing to meet with you over the phone. Her new website is http://georgieoldfield.com/
 
Forest said:
Yes, Georgie Oldfield is particularly good and very dedicated. I think that once you've been diagnosed, she's willing to meet with you over the phone. Her new website is http://georgieoldfield.com/
Click to expand...
This is an old post but I will chime in. Without fail when I am stressed,or overly tired,I begin to lose voice volume and strength/it always goes away and I've never been concerned about it as I know others who get this. The most irritating thing is when I'm asked to speak up!

Mark
 
Forest said:
Dr. Howard Schubiner is a long time staunch supporter of the PPD / TMS Peer Network and at one point even offered to donate a portion of all proceeds from his online program to our nonprofit. We ended up declining his generous offer because we know how important it is to let the public know that we are completely financially independent of all PPD / TMS practitioners and represent only Peers with PPD / TMS, but the offer was gratefully appreciated (we need people to know that we recommend his program only because it is excellent and not because it diminishes our need to get donations from other sources). Because we are a volunteer run organization, our expenses are extraordinarily low, so it isn't that hard to raise the money that we need. In general, volunteer organizations take an extremely high amount of work to set up (for example, as of today, I've sent 4259 emails from the account that I use for TMS Wiki work. I've pretty much been working on this almost full time for three years), but once you've set them up, you've created something truly amazing. As you can see from the hard work of the volunteer Forum Support Team who run this forum, we've got an amazing team. They're the people with "administrator" or "Forum Support" below their pictures.
​
Click to expand...

How incredibly generous of Howard to make that offer but on balance you made the right call!
More evidence he has his heart in the right place. I suppose he realises the greater importance of trying to get the message out!
 
Hey Jake,

I'm new to the forum, but not to TMS. I had debilitating back pain in my late 20's and had 0 success in curing it until I ran across Dr. Sarno's work - within 2 weeks of first reading his book, I was completely cured!

In the las few years I noticed my voice quality deteriorating, and it began to take more and more effort to speak. When you talk about it feeling like someone standing on your throat, I can definitely relate! I was diagnosed with spasmodic dysphonia. Supposedly, SD is often misdiagnosed as MTD. In reality, I intellectually believe the diagnosis is a moot point, as in reality they are of the same origin - TMS!

I say "intellectually believe", because even with my past success with eliminating my back pain, I still am having a hard time accepting 100% that my voice issue is TMS. Intellectually, it makes complete sense to me, and in The Mind Body Prescription, Dr. S. even mentions SD as a TMS equivalent.

So I believe we are fighting the same battle, my friend. I'm guessing your voice is either a big part of your job, or at least your identity (mine is/was - I'm a singer, a realtor, and a soccer coach). I'm guessing that, because it makes sense for our brains to choose something really critical to use as a distraction. I feel your frustration - few people understand what it's like to not be able to communicate. I actually greatly preferred the excruciating back pain over the voice-loss; at least people can relate to back pain. Having difficulty talking really just leaves you lonely, even if you're surrounded by friends and family. It's a whole different type of pain.

Bear in mind that these voice disorders are "idiopathic"; no known cause. That should tell us the MD's have no idea what they're talking about, and we need to find our solution elsewhere. They don't understand it, what caused it or what can cure it, yet they'll openly recommend treatment (that almost never works). A TMS diagnosis makes infinitely more sense than the straws the MD's grab at in trying to come up with for SD and MTD.

So I wish you the best on your journey. It would be much appreciated if you'd reach out and let me know how you're coming....not many of us using this approach to cure our voices.

Nate
 
Sure sounds like TMS to me... if you can sing and do silly voices, how could it be anything but? The psychological connections are there, and you're frustrated/scared/hyper-focused on this thing... and I bet catastrophizing re: a life of silence and isolation. That's the recipe; the feedback loop that makes it continue. The white-coats can't even come up with a physical explanation to give you on this one, not even a red herring 'herniated disc' sort of thing... just a generic acronym that might as well be BMWTHGOWYSHAA (Beats me what the hell's going on with you so here's an acronym). It seems to me that when the mainstream docs prescribe CBT, that means they're floundering and figure they'll pass you on to the therapists... i.e. TMS.
 
Last edited:
6498w said:
Hey Jake,

I'm new to the forum, but not to TMS. I had debilitating back pain in my late 20's and had 0 success in curing it until I ran across Dr. Sarno's work - within 2 weeks of first reading his book, I was completely cured!

In the las few years I noticed my voice quality deteriorating, and it began to take more and more effort to speak. When you talk about it feeling like someone standing on your throat, I can definitely relate! I was diagnosed with spasmodic dysphonia. Supposedly, SD is often misdiagnosed as MTD. In reality, I intellectually believe the diagnosis is a moot point, as in reality they are of the same origin - TMS!

I say "intellectually believe", because even with my past success with eliminating my back pain, I still am having a hard time accepting 100% that my voice issue is TMS. Intellectually, it makes complete sense to me, and in The Mind Body Prescription, Dr. S. even mentions SD as a TMS equivalent.

So I believe we are fighting the same battle, my friend. I'm guessing your voice is either a big part of your job, or at least your identity (mine is/was - I'm a singer, a realtor, and a soccer coach). I'm guessing that, because it makes sense for our brains to choose something really critical to use as a distraction. I feel your frustration - few people understand what it's like to not be able to communicate. I actually greatly preferred the excruciating back pain over the voice-loss; at least people can relate to back pain. Having difficulty talking really just leaves you lonely, even if you're surrounded by friends and family. It's a whole different type of pain.

Bear in mind that these voice disorders are "idiopathic"; no known cause. That should tell us the MD's have no idea what they're talking about, and we need to find our solution elsewhere. They don't understand it, what caused it or what can cure it, yet they'll openly recommend treatment (that almost never works). A TMS diagnosis makes infinitely more sense than the straws the MD's grab at in trying to come up with for SD and MTD.

So I wish you the best on your journey. It would be much appreciated if you'd reach out and let me know how you're coming....not many of us using this approach to cure our voices.

Nate
Click to expand...
 
mads13 said:
Hello!!
I’m struggling with MTD and I’m wondering how you are doing now?
Click to expand...

Interestingly enough I was just listening to a Dan Buglio success story on this. I had never heard of MTD until I saw your post and this woman had MTD (I picked it for the foot pain) and recovered. In the video she or Dan also referenced someone else who recovered from MTD... sorry I don't remember if that person was also another Dan success story. For this woman it was 100% TMS. Her story (as are many) is quite something! I hope it gives you hope.

 
I'm still not sure if what I experience in my throat is TMS. It continues to scare me a lot, and letting me into fight ir flight mode. I don't feel pain in the throat, only this sensation like there is something stuck on my throat, do I don't know if this is the same, as I see on success storys that talk about throat psin. It never went away. I know that some people report the sane feelings with hashimoto. But could this also be stress related? Could this be TMS and not something to do with your thyroid?

This sensation scares me because its been around since September, and its in afraid I get smothered. In the other hand, it stated because my tooth fell down, and I was also afraid of contracting the HPV virus

Well, I know there is nothing wrong with my throat, at least from the inside.

Pain is anxiety, and this sensation is making me anxious and enraged...
 
Filipe2025 said:
I'm still not sure if what I experience in my throat is TMS. It continues to scare me a lot, and letting me into fight ir flight mode. I don't feel pain in the throat, only this sensation like there is something stuck on my throat, do I don't know if this is the same, as I see on success storys that talk about throat psin. It never went away. I know that some people report the sane feelings with hashimoto. But could this also be stress related? Could this be TMS and not something to do with your thyroid?

This sensation scares me because its been around since September, and its in afraid I get smothered. In the other hand, it stated because my tooth fell down, and I was also afraid of contracting the HPV virus

Well, I know there is nothing wrong with my throat, at least from the inside.

Pain is anxiety, and this sensation is making me anxious and enraged...
Click to expand...

Hi @Filipe2025 - could it be described as a globus sensation?

The Diagnostic Guide (from the experts) describes this as "The feeling of having a lump in the throat when no abnormality is present. The sensation can come and go (I've added the underline myself). It does not interfere with eating or drinking."

Then as to whether or not it is TMS or not it says - "PPD (which is the same as TMS) is highly likely and should be assessed".

So assuming that you've had the relevant tests and ruled out anything sinister + there are other indicators that suggest TMS - it sounds likely that it is :)
 
Adam Coloretti (coach) said:
Hi @Filipe2025 - could it be described as a globus sensation?

The Diagnostic Guide (from the experts) describes this as "The feeling of having a lump in the throat when no abnormality is present. The sensation can come and go (I've added the underline myself). It does not interfere with eating or drinking."

Then as to whether or not it is TMS or not it says - "PPD (which is the same as TMS) is highly likely and should be assessed".

So assuming that you've had the relevant tests and ruled out anything sinister + there are other indicators that suggest TMS - it sounds likely that it is :)
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for your reply.

Thyroid issues are caused by chronic stresses/fear, so what is irrational in my fear is that you should address it the same way you do with TMS. However it is a scary symptom to deal with. It's also annoying. I just wish I could find a success story that really addresses what I feel. On the other hand, I don't know how you rule out HPV contagious.

My brain continues to be scared of this sensation, because it never really went away. When I had other TMS symptoms they would shift, or disappear.

I already know it's not dangerous. I eat and breath normally. I just wish it didn't scare my old brain, do I can finally be off this anxiety loop
 
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