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Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Kalo, Aug 16, 2018.

  1. Kalo

    Kalo Well known member

    Hi All,

    I don't know if my post will be read or replied to....

    I know a lot of people on this forum have back problems, neck, RSI, etc....

    I have TMJ and guess what I found out??? It's not the MUSCULAR kind it is STRUCTURAL...I have degenerative disc and internal derragement of my condolyde...

    I am scared because I have CREPITUS constantely in my ears..meaning i can hear the grinding, my left side of my joint is stiff and I can't open my mouth any wider than two fingers....

    Chewing is not easy and worst of all TMJ implants have been proven to not work and make things worst as a matter of fact TMJ.org says cortizone shots, dentistry any thing has SCIENTIFICALLY NOT BEEN PROVEN TO HELP ANY ONE.

    I never had TMJ problem like this until my Mom died 6 months ago and I lost my job shortly after...This all happened from chewing gum....

    I am scared, but, I have read Dr. Sarno say that structural abdormality isn't the cause, but, my pain and CREPITUS is in the jaw joint...

    My questions is how many people did he look at with wtih condition? Did he just assume that people with muscular TMJ had a pschyogenic componment.....Had he ever seen the structual abdnormalities that effected the joint, limited mobility and so forth....

    I am SCARED and too boot all of this, I was hired for a job and in just one week was let go'ed because it wasnt' a good fit....

    Any help would be appreciated...I am feeling low and taking benzo's that really only calm me down...

  2. GetBusyLiving

    GetBusyLiving New Member

    Kalo - first off, I'm sorry for everything you're going through and I hope you find the right answers because figuring any of this out is extremely difficult.

    Here are my very humble thoughts/opinions on the matter:
    • You should not ignore the significant correlation to such extreme stressors occurring in your life. This is the smoking gun of all smoking guns.
    • I do not believe Dr. Sarno ever said or implied that EVERY case of TMJ is psychogenic but rather most were likely from his observation. You will always have outliers within any population.
    • It is my belief (based on everything I've learned from my own personal TMS journey and that of my spouse as well) that MOST pains/illnesses are caused/created by your emotions and not because of anything structural or disease. That does not mean medical attention is not necessary if the pain/illness has become severe enough - but that if you do not address the underlying emotional imbalance, you will never rid yourself of your pain/illness. The mind and body cannot be separated.
    • Important question: How do you know your pain is due to the identified structural abnormality? As so many doctors (not just Dr. Sarno) have pointed out and many peer reviewed studies have demonstrated, oftentimes there is no correlation between the structural abnormalities claimed to be responsible for pain and the presence or absence of pain. People without back pain have just as many back 'abnormalities'. People without knee/back/hip pain have just as much arthritis/cartilage degeneration. You cannot predict who has pain or not based on these 'abnormalities' because it turns out that we almost all have them. So, assuming a doctor told you of this 'abnormality' in your jaw and told you it was the reason for your pain, unless he can point to studies or evidence (or even personal experience) to demonstrate that this same abnormality is never present in people without any pain (evidenced with the same kind of X-Ray/MRI imaging), then you should be very skeptical and seriously consider TMS a possibility...especially given your circumstances. Because, why would the jaw joints and muscles be any different than the back, shoulder, elbow, knee, hip, wrist, etc.
    Lizzy likes this.
  3. Lizzy

    Lizzy Well known member


    I am so sorry to hear you are not feeling well. I think GetBusyLiving has given excellent information. I second everything ☺️

    I think it is very interesting and important that your mom died at the same time as the pain's arrival. I'm estranged from my dad and found out 9 months ago he has heart and kidney failure. I've made the decision not to see him If the opportunity arises. My situation is very different than what you are going through, but I still have had some TMS symptoms that started when I found out his health was failing. I can't imagine how much worse it would be if we were close and I would miss him. I haven't seen or communicated with him in 6 years, and I don't miss him. I just feel relief. So symptoms under your circumstances make sense.

    I think you should find out if you could have TMS. Maybe you can ask a practitioner. You are in the middle of two opinions: Dr. Sarno and your doctor. Dr. Sarno didn't say enough about TMJ for you to know if its always TMS, and your doctor doesn't know enough to know if the structural things are significant. Maybe you don't have to feel hopeless. Often, if something structural is not fixable it is because the pain is TMS. I hope for the best for you!

  4. Kalo

    Kalo Well known member

    Hi GetBusyLiving,

    My jaw locked at two fingers and it was after chewing gum. My left jaw kepting popping and the jaw deviated. Which means the condyle is stuck in the lock position. I was told through CT that it is what causing my problem...I have degenerative arthritis in both jaws as well....I was told to try cortizone shots, and then surgery down the road, but, from reading TMJ.org and at least they are HONEST, they say none of those methods have EVER been scientfically proven to help and can make it worst. But, still I am scared it will this get worst? I heard a grating (creptius) constantely in both jaws now....I have read so many horror stories on woman who got these jaw implants and it failed and they are now suffering.....I do think it is wierd knowing that I at least had degenerative process going on in my right jaw, that I could chew gum, eat normal, and never have had any problems happen three months after I was fired from my job and at that point my Mom whom I was really closed to had died three months prior....

    I have tried to journal, get angry at her for leaving me and so many other things...But none of it helps...And it didn't help that my stupid MD kind of gave me a nocebo....Now, I have become obessed at reading all these woman suffering and trying to fix their jaws....

    Hi Lizzy, I think I can deal with the pain, but, it's the the noise grating and the limited mouth mobility I have that makes me crazy. It feels like my jaws are crumbling....With the back and so forth, not to say that is a joyride, you don't hear the noise ie grating...

    Thanks for both of your reply
    Lizzy likes this.
  5. Lizzy

    Lizzy Well known member


    I don't want to make you feel even more pressure than you already feel. However, I want to make every effort to help you.

    Is it possible that the noises and limited mobility in your jaw is the same phenomenon that causes backs, necks, knees and ankles to be noisy and stiff, weak and even crooked? I'm sure the noises are very obnoxious and are hard to take. Being sensitive to noises is common with anxiety, and when they are inside your head they're worse. I've tried brushing my teeth with earplugs in, and it's super annoying.

    Have you read Claire Weekes? I think you could feel a lot better if you read, or reread, her during this difficult time. Listening to her on YouTube is also helpful.

    Most important is that you are cared about here! We truly hope you are as well as possible.

  6. GetBusyLiving

    GetBusyLiving New Member

    Ok - I'm going to stretch WAY beyond any real knowledge I have here...so, just food for thought/consideration...

    I believe negative emotions / stress can inhibit your immune system and essentially cause your body to turn on itself. This isn't the stretch part...this is a firm belief I have at this point (see Dr. Gabor Mate's talks around 'When the body says No' on YouTube).

    So, you may have a real structural issue that was created due to your emotional state. I'm not a doctor and thus cannot say what the prognosis is for your particular circumstance and whether corrective action is necessary. It may be..just have no idea.

    I do believe your research into the effectiveness of such corrective actions is wise.

    Regarding the cortisone - are they blaming an inflammation process? If so, that should heal within a reasonable amount of time. If it's for pain management, well...maybe there's no structural reason this should cause pain or persist in this manner. Just speculation on my part.

    Back to pulling on the threads of some of the previous questions...continue to ask yourself - Why did this all develop so quickly and why now? Now the other side too? What are the odds of that if not related to something emotional? What if I assumed it was all TMS, stopped obsessing and spending day and night giving my precious energy to it and rather re-focused that energy into self discovery AND self soothing...acknowledging the pain when I feel it and seeing it as simply a messenger for the way I'm feeling...a way in which my mindbody is weeping for everything I'm going through...all with the knowledge that I'm ok and that it's my heart and my mind that is crying for attention - not my jaw....my jaw is fine. What's the worst that can happen?

    I certainly am not NEARLY familiar enough with your situation to answer that last question. These are simply things to consider.
    Lizzy likes this.
  7. Kalo

    Kalo Well known member

    I am praying what you just stated is is the phenomenon that is happening to me. I know TMJ muscular and joint problems happens more to females then to males....Kind of like fibro...Thank you for your help Lizzy.

    Oh, I have watched plenty of his videos and I am scared that I turned on some type of automimmune thing...But how to reverse it...I try to get on with life as normal...But I still have tons of fear...TONS!!!

    They use cortisone on everything to just to easy pain....And now they do athroscropic surgery like they do on knees which haven't been proven to work either..

    Getbusyliving, Well before this all went on I was working for a tax company "people pleasing" and worked hard for them...I was peeing almost every 20 minutes until my Doctor did a CT scan and found nothing wrong...Then I chewed gum and after spitting it out 20 min later I felt pain in my joint...I tried to ignore it, and then realized every time I tried to open my mouth...my Jaw popped and it was painful.

    In my heart, I do believe this has an emotional component...I had just lost my Mom whom I was VERY closed to and care gived to her ....Then my job and I am not going to lie...I feel scared of aging alone...I am 50, but, I am told I don't look it...But still and I am not married....My family is limited and I don't have a lot of friends....I do feel that my mindbody is weeping for EVERYTHING....I saw my Dad die four years prior to my Mom's death...Then my Mom dwindle down from pancreatic cancer....I was in this all by myself....I will say I had and still have other TMS symptons at times along with the jaw stuff...It's all the horror stories I have read of woman not being able to open their jaws more than one finger and I am at two finger...But, I am not about to do a surgery that proves to make you worst....I keep thinking as you say what's the worst than can happen...I drink high calories shakes for the rest of my life and keep living....I just hope all the stress that I went through...I didn't do something more dreadful to myself.....I worried for my Mom, finances, health etc....I have lived in fear all my life and my nervous system has been geared for fight or flight that I am having a hard time turning off....

    Again, thanks for all your help
  8. Baseball65

    Baseball65 Beloved Grand Eagle

    Quick input. My jaw is soooo noisy that I am usually a bit self conscious to eat out in public. I have only had pain from it once about a year ago for a day or two as I went through a painful deal with my GF. I recognized it as tms and the pain left pronto....still noisy and Loud in my own head.
    Also....when my knee froze about ten years ago it was definitely tms and I absolutely could not bend the leg at all.... not because of pain but it just stopped bending. That too was a nice healthy distraction from my very painful marriage.scary too
    Lizzy likes this.
  9. JohnWinner

    JohnWinner New Member

    I know I'm very late but reading your story I wonder if you had mercury amalgams in your mouth? Mercury can cause anxiety, muscle spasms, nerve pain, etc, etc, etc. Just an idea in case you don't find any relief with the repressed emotions...
  10. Kalo

    Kalo Well known member

    While I appreciate you response...I was not going to answer because I have since moved on from this forum. But to answer your question, I do not have mercury amalgams in my mouth. Also, since this post was brought up again and the only way I knew this was because I received an email as stated I do not visit the forum any longer, but, I appreciate you response....
  11. JohnWinner

    JohnWinner New Member

    I understand. I hope you found some relief. Wish you the best.
  12. TG957

    TG957 Beloved Grand Eagle

    What you have is muscle spasm. Muscle spasm IS TMS. I had severe muscle spasms, too, and I recovered 100%. You need to get yourself out of the panic mode and start relaxing your mind. You need to know one thing: it is TMS, and you will recover!!!!
  13. Kalo

    Kalo Well known member

    Let me ask you a question....I do not have any more pain....I have INTENSE CRUNCH in my left jaw, and also what feels like catching of the joint....This has been going on since 2018 when I posted this that is four years ago....I

    I am surprised this post was re-posted again...S

    Seriously, I have since moved on and learned to LIVE with the GRIND CRUNCH noise which is 24/7.....It happens at any movement of my jaw....

    The only thing that has kept me sane...Is moving on and learning to to ACCEPT what I can not change....I STOPPED trying to fix it and learned to live with it...
  14. TG957

    TG957 Beloved Grand Eagle

    Not sure what your question is, but you made the most important step, you stopped trying to fix your jaw. Have you tried to change the way you handle your emotions?
  15. Kalo

    Kalo Well known member

    Hi TG957, yes I am handling my emotions better...This is not always easy...I totally understand myself as far as low self worth...Sometimes being afraid to speak up because I am afraid of abonnement...Many things.

    I guess my questions is...Will this Crunch sound and feeling every go away from healing with TMS? If I go from medical side...I am on bone on bone...I NEVER had this before....Yes this all came on by stress, but, a miracle of cartildige is going to have to happen to have my bone not make the sound and feeling any more..

    Who knows maybe if I totally get control of my feelings and accept what is I might see the miracle happen....It is sad because I can not even get my teeth clean which makes me kind of sad...By will have accepted everything...It is the only way to handling this 24/7 feeling...
  16. newlearner

    newlearner New Member

    FWIW I've never been able to open my mouth more than 2.5 fingers wide. A book I read years ago said to relax your jaw you should open it and put a cork in it. I cannot fit a cork in my mouth. It's too big.

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