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How to Determine if any Physical Cause

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by EileenS, Feb 21, 2017.

  1. EileenS

    EileenS Well known member

    I started the TMS Recovery Program today in order to help me get rid of the last of my pain my body still holds on to. How do I determine if there is any structural reason for the pain my body still has? Don't tell me to ask my gp. She told me I would just have to learn to live with the pain and ibs, the structural issues would only get worse. Is this something I could/should pose on the 'ask a therapist' forum?

    When I developed severe chronic pain over 3 years ago, I did have a lot going on with my cervical spine as revealed by an MRI and my doctor. The stress of that pain had caused ibs, which was severe as well. Fast forward 3 years, everything I have done has slowly improved me. First physio, then massage, then almost 2 years ago I discovered Dr Sarno's books and replaced physio with journaling. That summer I bought Dr Schubiner's workbook and poured a lot of tears, shouting, and kicking into doing his program. Then in Jan'16, I started an excellent group program that helps people overcome their pain in a way very similar to what this site promotes, except they also have an energy healing component. I started seeing a chiropractor last May. When I gave him my MRI results a month later, he told me he would have expected someone coming in and asking him to 'end it all' for them, not someone who just came from yoga class and in no obvious pain (I had felt that way when the MRI was done 3 yrs ago.). He therefore asked me to get a new MRI. This last MRI, done in July'16, shows significant improvement from the first one. I still see the chiro, although he has cut me back to maintenance visits, and I still get massages because they feel great. The group program ended last Nov, and I know it helps to have the mind body ideas reinforced, so that's why I'm now starting the TMS Recovery Program.
    So, how do I determine if I still have any structural reason for the pain I still have? Since discovering Dr Sarno, I have told myself that it's a mix of structural and mental, but now I need to know if there's any structural reason or if my mind just doesn't want to give it up because it hangs onto the old MRI diagnosis.
  2. MindBodyPT

    MindBodyPT Beloved Grand Eagle

    Without knowing your exact situation, it seems highly doubtful that your pain is structural in nature. Most structural pain is from things like a tumor, new infection, fracture, or post-surgical. Sarno and his followers have well established that "normal abnormalities" on MRIs are very unlikely to be the cause of chronic pain. Chiropractors are conventionally trained in the structural model so it makes sense that yours would have given a structural explanation. Just my two cents. My lumbar spine MRI didn't look too good either, and here I am without any pain today :) If it's any consolation, I find (anecdotally) that my client's pain has no correlation with what is on their imaging, and the studies back this up.
    Lunarlass66 likes this.
  3. Duggit

    Duggit Well known member

    MindBodyPT, in another post on this forum, you wrote: " I read all 3 Sarno books, did most of the SEP, and have been reading other TMS practitioner books including Georgie Oldfield's, Howard Schubiner's and David Schecter's. I like getting the perspective from various professionals (also as I plan to start incorporating these strategies into my PT practice)."

    I highly recommend another mind/body book to you: Butler & Moseley, Explain Pain, second edition. Moseley is a physical therapist who also has trained and researched extensively in the neuroscience of pain. He is currently Professor of Clinical Neurosciences & Foundation Chair in Physiotherapy at the University of South Australia, Adelaide. Prior to that, he was at The University of Oxford, UK, where he was Nuffield Medical Research Fellow in the Departments of Clinical Neurology and Physiology, Anatomy & Genetics. The book is pricey (and overpriced) at $90, but I think you would find it well worth the money. But rather than just take my word for it, the Amazon reviews of the book include praise from physical therapists and physical therapy patients who were introduced to it by their therapists. (Some Amazon reviewers warn against buying the cheaper e-book version of the book because of its unreadability.) You can get some of the flavor of the book be viewing this Youtube video of a Moseley presentation:

    Butler & Moseley also have a book written for patients: The Explain Pain Handbook: Protectometer.
    MindBodyPT likes this.
  4. MindBodyPT

    MindBodyPT Beloved Grand Eagle

    Awesome! Somehow I hadn't heard of him before but I will check this out! Thanks for the recommendation.
  5. EileenS

    EileenS Well known member

    Thanks for seeing my post and replying MindBodyPT! Lucky me for having a PT see my post. I have attached my mri from July last year. Since then, I have been adjusted by the chiro for 8 months and used a cervical traction pillow he recommended to normalize my cervical curve, and learned to hold my head in a normal position rather than jut it forward, as well as go for a massage most weeks. ( At this point in reading, Dr Sarno devotees are probably rolling their eyes.) The mri 3 years ago said at 'C5-C6: ...osteochondral bar mildly compressing the anterior thecal sac.' I'm assuming this is why I had nerve sensations all down my left side back then and why my chiro said what he said. I'm 60 years old.
    I get what you mean about chiros and srtuctural training. I wish I could combine the PT I used to see with my chiro into one person. I have thought about switching back to her because I have forgotten how to do the muscle building exercises, but it's the atmosphere that keeps me away. The chiro and massage therapist I go to are in a 'natural therapy' place where everyone looks content and exuding health. My PT had one old person after another hobbling in with walkers and canes. Not a good atmosphere for feeling the vibe of health and well being. One really has to use their instinct as to how to proceed, asking people directions along the way.

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    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017

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