1. Our TMS drop-in chat is today (Saturday) from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM Eastern Standard Time. It's a great way to get quick and interactive peer support. D'Nice TMS is today's host. Click here for more info.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this link: http://go.tmswiki.org/newprogram
    Dismiss Notice

Herniated Disc, Vertigo and Dizziness Problem

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by mutombo, Mar 13, 2017.

Tags:
  1. mutombo

    mutombo New Member

    Hi all.

    I am 30 years old. It all started with a vertigo at night. I suddenly wake up and the whole room was spinning. I was afraid and I prayed and hoped it will pass in the morning. Then I wake up with a pain in my neck and in my left ear. I went to doctor for my ear and nothing found. Also my brain MRI is normal too. When I went to physiotherapy with Neck MRI, they found Cervical Herniated Disc in ….. with minimum pinched nerves. And they said pinched nerves are the reason for my vertigo and my dizziness. I took Physical therapy and it didn’t help me much.

    My main problem is stil the same. Not so much vertigo, but neck pain with dizziness. Also when I turn my head up, it’s spinning and it makes my head dizzy and confused (I couldn’t change broken bulb on the ceiling because of my dizziness). Sometimes when I woke up I have vertigo too (spinning). But generally I feel all day dizzy like a drunk and sometimes can’t choose right words to talk. It makes me so depressed. Actually I had no problem like that before and I feel herniated disc is the reason. But I read Dr. Sarno’s book and yes maybe he can be right but I can’t accept TMS because of some reasons though I have some TMS personality traits. The reasons are below. So am I right or still I have TMS? Can you evaluate them? Also I must say that I have moderate Scheuermann's disease (moderate kyphosis with scoliosis) and even I used brace for 2 years. I never had vertigo in those days but I know that I have moderate humpback because of my kyphosis. My back have pain some days since my childness but as I said before I never had vertigo and dizziness before my herniated disc problem. My quesitons are below (That’s why I couldn’t accept TMS, thought I want it too much.)

    1- In a study (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/pme.12583/full (Chronic Neck Pain and Episodic Vertigo and Tinnitus)) it says female presented with 24 years of history of chronic neck pain, herniated disc and pinched nerves with episodic vertigo and tinnitus irresponsive to extensive conservative therapies.

    In the surgery, after C5/6 disc decompression using radiofrequency nucleoplasty and Coblation technology for partial disc removal. She was symptom free. From the study “The patient felt the symptoms of neck pain and vertigo almost completely disappeared after treatment.”

    So how can it be, as if was TMS? What can you say about it?

    2- I have numbness and tingle in my fingers and my Ulnar Tinel Test is positive () It presents that I have pinched nerves. In the surgeon they can take nerve and make them decompressed.( https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ulnar+nerve+decompress (ulnar nerve decompress - YouTube)

    So it puts that “pinched nerves” are reality. Am I wrong?

    3- When I sleep with bad position my vertigo is much (also, my wife says that in the morning "you've slept too bad, your neck, your back etc. Is it still TMS. What must I do?

    I'm waiting for your reply, my friends. Thanks and good luck to all.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
  2. EileenS

    EileenS Well known member

    Mutombo, I think for you it could be physical and TMS. Symptoms don't have to be one or the other. Some people have all TMS symptoms. My opinion and experience is, even if someone has symptoms from a physical issue, they can still benefit greatly from learning TMS management.

    I had all of your symptoms and more at my worst. I have/had disc bulge and several other things going on with my cervical spine c4 - c6 that put pressure on my nerves, mostly left side. Mine started out with ringing in my left ear a year before the full blown chronic pain, which I'm reluctant to even call pain because of the numbness, tingling, dizziness, and head fog it caused. Although I had pinched nerves, my doctor said surgery was not an option because the risk is too great when dealing with the cervical spine, nor did I want to have surgery.

    I discovered Dr Sarno's books and this website almost 2 years ago. Twice for several months I have tried to do only the mind body techniques. Over the past 3 years I have had therapies to increase space in my cervical spine (PT, massage, chiro) and I have the best improvements when I combine the mind body techniques and other therapies. My issues were caused by a lifetime of too much physical work involving my neck and a lifetime of letting past and present stressors (TMS) hold stress in me. I'm a petite female, 60 yrs old.) I recognized it's not just one or the other causing my symptoms, so I still go for massages and use this site. (Use of this site is now mostly to help others like you have hope. I'm at about 98% now.) I just don't let massage therapists comment on the state of my muscles. I try to think of it as a relaxing treat for myself, rather than a therapy.
     
    MWsunin12 and Tennis Tom like this.
  3. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    YES.
     
    EileenS likes this.
  4. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    That video is hilarious. It seems no matter what the language is some doctors still don't know what they're talking about. I couldn't understand what he was saying but he seemed locked in on the body and all he had learned in medical school.

    You cannot have both TMS and structural causes. If you have a structural cause then it is not TMS and needs fixed. Scheuermann's does not cause pain, especially moderate Scheuermann's.

    The reason the lady in the article you cited here got better is probably because of the placebo. But there's too much not known to say for sure.

    Your symptoms are all common TMS, I had all of them and many more. The vertigo was the scariest of all to me. It does not come from neck disc problems like your doctor wishes, and your own brain of course also wishes you to think something is wrong for tactical reasons. You don't have a pinched nerve or you would be paralyzed in a few seconds. I've had a pinched nerve twice and was paralyzed. But I also had TMS and was paralyzed, so there's a difference. But if you are not paralyzed then you don't have a pinched nerve.

    Tennis Tom, how are you?

    SteveO
     
    MWsunin12 likes this.
  5. mutombo

    mutombo New Member

    EileenS, Tennis Tom, Steve Ozanich thank you so much. Thank you for your comments, replies and share your thoughts.

    SteveO, the video is Turkish and it is nerve test. same as here. He hits the point, if your fingers become tingled or you feel electrics in your finger it means ulnar nerve is compressed and test is positive (sometimes I feel this when my muscle is so stiff) So you say that, the test is meaningless? Cause you say there is no pinched nerve except rare situations. But the test says there is, even they make surgeries too.



    Maybe I have TMS but also, when my muscles are stiff, maybe it can make my problems bigger. I think like that, is it wrong?

    I said it because as I said before, I felt too bad in two mornings. One of them, I used a new pillow (orthopedic pillow) and when I woke up in the morning, I felt very bad vertigo and I knew I slept in very bad position (my wife said it). Second of them was similar too. So when I sleep in bad position, in the morning my muscles, my neck become so stiff and hard and I feel severe vertigo. So it seems stractural or positional. how can we explain it just TMS?

    I don't know I am just confused. Stractural and TMS seems more logic to me, but I am not sure.
     
  6. EileenS

    EileenS Well known member

    Steve O, I fired up my computer ahd ordered your book upon reading your reply. I thinking about it already, but boy, did that reply sell me!
     
    MWsunin12 likes this.
  7. MindBodyPT

    MindBodyPT Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Mutombo,

    Welcome to the forums! Many of us on here were diagnosed with some kind of herniated disc and pinched nerve (I definitely was). On MRI, many doctors look at the image and see something that LOOKS like a pinched nerve near a disc and use that to explain symptoms.

    In reality, these symptoms are caused by TMS and the herniated disc is an incidental, or unrelated, finding. I have no doubt that as long as the MRI was done and anything more serious was ruled out (like a tumor or something), your dizziness and neck pain is TMS caused. a TRUE nerve compression would cause basically total loss of function, sensation and strength (would usually only happen from a traumatic injury).

    As a PT I see people with unexplained dizziness and neck pain similarly to what you describe and yours definitely sounds like TMS to me especially given the absence of anything more concerning on MRI. Read some success stories of others with your symptoms to help your belief in the diagnosis! Glad you've found the forums to get support.
     
    Lunarlass66 likes this.
  8. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    Just because there's tingling doesn't mean there is a pinched nerve. Many people with TMS have tingling and no pinched nerve. My left leg was paralyzed, with no feeling, no reflexes, and with foot drop. But there was no pinched nerve. It was a bloodflow loss.

    Meaningless is a harsh word, but it seems to come down to that in most cases. I suppose there may be an instance where a finding might help, but I haven't seen one yet. There is a guy familiar to this site who contacted me to say he had pain all over his body. So they wanted to do nerve conduction studies on him. When they were done with the testing they told him he had severe carpal tunnel in his right wrist. He told me that his right wrist was the only spot that he didn't have pain on his body. So what do the numbers from the testing mean?

    The idea is to find the right cause for the effect. Dr. Sarno has proven that emotions are the cause for most of the physical effects. So when someone is told their neck discs are causing vertigo it seems insane to me. But anything is possible, though not probable. Emotions however are almost never considered by doctors in the evaluation because they can't be seen, or measured.

    We live in a bizarre world where odd things happen. It's always possible that some odd physical defect would need fixed, but it's very unlikely once you see the bigger picture. People who don't understand TMS usually fight to protect the physical reasons at all cost. Those who understand TMS a little bit only defend the physical causes a little bit. In the end I believe it's best to go with what Andrew Weil said, "....it should be considered TMS until proved (sic) otherwise."

    Protect your life first, and then learn all about TMS, stay away from pain sites that reinforce pain and send conflicting messages of confusion.

    SO
     
    PainNoMore and Ryan like this.
  9. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    YES! And, on those great words from SteveO'guru, and some help from daylight savings time, I'm going out to smack some serves, followed by a little run in the pool, and some back-stroke for a little stretch.

    Cheers SteveO,
    tt/lsmft
     
    Ryan likes this.
  10. mutombo

    mutombo New Member


    Thanks for your answers. I have one questions more.

    As I said before, I have a bad posture (Scheurmann Kyphosis) and my neck is forward. An article says, it can make dizziness and vertigo too.

    http://www.healthline.com/health/fitness-exercise/vertebral-artery-compression (Vertebral Artery Compression, Dizziness, Discs, and the Forward Head)

    So can it be right, or still I have no problem no matter what my neck and back is, all the problem is in my mind (TMS)

    What can you say about it? I am not a women but my back and neck is like that

    https://forums.t-nation.com/uploads.../e17b0a2d763601631dc0d76564b628ba2e525bf4.jpg
     
  11. Ryan

    Ryan Well known member

    Hang in there buddy, i have had all the diagnosis of ulnar nerve compression and carpel tunnel. Your body is fine, this is a great fear epidemic today that is spreading like wild fire because fear sells. Talk to people who have been around a while, like my grandma who is almost 90 and back 45 years ago she never heard of all the nerve problems because of typing or repetitive action. Back then they typed on old school type writers that take a lot more effort than modern computers. I had numbness and shaking in my hands as well, that is all gone. Its really not that hard on your body but yet modern medicine continues to throw this at you.

    Its because as Steve said the lack of oxygen/blood flow because your body is stressed out. Have to look at your current perception of life. Also my posture at my desk is terrible yet I'm not in pain any more. Of course its good to sit up straight but people put to much focus on the body. I even had stuff come up on my MRI in neck but it was all TMS. Hope i gave you some confidence to move forward, its a fun journey! We are what we believe.

    Ryan
     
    Snowman, cdub, Tennis Tom and 2 others like this.
  12. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    Bad posture is a HOAX.
     
  13. EileenS

    EileenS Well known member

    Hi Mutombo,
    I started seeing a chiropractor last May who said my neck problems stemmed from years of holding stress in my neck and from consequently holding my head in a forward position all the time. I had no dizziness although I was holding my neck forward with a bad posture. I did learn to not hold my neck forward, but for vanity reasons - I didn't want to look old. Ever notice a lot of old people jut their neck forward? I'm sure they're not all walking around dizzy.

    Regarding the tingling, I still get tingling in my left fingers sometimes, but I know it's due to tight muscles. Sometimes my muscles around my left collarbone are tight and sometimes a spot in my left trapezius is tight when something is causing me stress. It's impossible for it to be from my discs as they wouldn't change from one hour to the next.
    Stop letting your fear mind go to Dr Google. Do your searching on this site instead.

    As a side note, I asked the chiro about a sore foot I had last Sept. He gave me a hard time about the shoes I wore in to see him not having support (I love my Vans), he could fit me with an orthotic, etc. The foot pain went away on it's own when I went back to wearing sock feet and shoes with no support and being too busy to think about it.
     
  14. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    I got the same pitch from a famed running foot doctor years ago, unfortunately it was prior to my becoming TMS savvy. I took the hook--result : out over $2000 for three sets of uncomfortable orthotics, that now sit languishing in the bottom of the closet doing nothing. Those green Spenco shoe inserts, with a little arch for $19, are as good as anything to put in your shoes for some cushioning and they last forever.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
  15. MindBodyPT

    MindBodyPT Beloved Grand Eagle

    I don't think there's a very good relationship established between kyphosis and vertebral artery issues. Dizziness can be caused by a variety of things...TMS, low blood pressure, neurological issues. Poor posture is not likely to cause issues with the vertebral artery. The MRI would have showed any serious issue going on. It really sounds like your collection of symptoms are TMS caused.
     
  16. Fernando

    Fernando Peer Supporter

    I have many of your symptoms and the MRI came clear. This was back in 2009. The pain in my arm has been significantly reduced. In addition, TMS may lead to misinterpretation of nerve conduction test. A slightly altered nerve conduction means usually nothing relevant or may be caused by muscle spasm.
     
    Tennis Tom likes this.
  17. EileenS

    EileenS Well known member

    Your dizziness could be from something as simple as shallow breathing because you're feeling anxious. Are you breathing relaxed? I used to have a job training people on a software system and soon after I started the job I found I was becoming dizzy while training. Many of the trainees were computer phobic and I discovered I was holding my breath out of impatience for them to press the damn keys!
    There are probably lots of Youtube videos on using the breath to calm yourself. Dr Andrew Weill has a great audiobook and might be on Youtube.
     
    Fernando likes this.
  18. mutombo

    mutombo New Member

    Thanks for your all answers. It helped me, for example I was wonderful yesterday. But today I feel vertigo and dizziness (I am not with any stress today)

    But guess what,

    My wife said me 1 hour ago, in the night I slept with bad posture again. She describes it like a "fetal position". But also she said my neck and my back seems so humpy, and even she touched me in the night to make my position correct. But I don't remember it.

    Is it all coincidence when I sleep with bad posture (I don't know it until someone tells me) in the day I feel vertigo.

    Can it be still explained with TMS?

    I feel good yesterday, but feel so depressed and dizzy today. What is the difference?

    I slept less 2 days ago and I felt good yesterday. But I slept 8 hours yesterday and today I feel so bad with dizziness and vertigo.

    Is there any comment?
     
  19. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    Bad posture is a HOAX!

    Your wife probably means well, but she's laying NOCEBOS on you and that's NOT good from a TMS perspective. Tell her bad posture is a HOAX, that it's an old wive's tale--that might get her off your back.

    If it's TMS, and the odds are 80% it is, then TMS could explain it.

    Cheers,
    tt/lsmft
     
  20. Duggit

    Duggit Well known member

    When I overcame more than two decades of chronic low back pain with the help of Sarno's Healing Back Pain, I would celebrate by purposely sitting with terrible posture A LOT. That never caused any recurrence of back pain.
     
    HattieNC likes this.

Share This Page