Help for my daughter please

[annie.I24]

Hi,
I hope someone can help. My daughter is 19 and is a highly sensitive person. She has suffered from unexplained pain on and off all her life, mostly its been attributed to tension, to a false scoliosis, and to a weak core.
A few years ago she had a slipped or trapped disc and couldn't move for 24 hrs, she was pretty traumatised by it and mentions the fear of it happening again frequently. She was also bullied at school and finds life generally pretty tough.

She is now in crisis mode having frequent panic attacks, long periods of head and neck and back pain, (pretty constant since december, but never in the same place), anxiety including food anxiety and is having great difficulty getting ANY sleep. She has been seeing a therapist who specialises in HSP's for a few months. The counsellor has said that she has OCD and is probably ADHD. But her approach to the pain is worrying me - I 'm sure its not physiological, but the counsellor is saying she should 'take care' of the pain as if it were a new born baby and try different things to appease it ie pain meds, change position, yoga, stretches. pain meds don't touch it.
She's seen osteopaths, physios, doctors, massage therapists. All say then can fix it or she can fix it with exercise.
Should she change therapists ? She's terrified to consider TMS because she wants there to be a medical solution and tbh, this forum is pretty scary - its a huge deal to admit to oneself that there are people who are fighting this for years on end
I just want to help her. Should we continue down the medical route? Do we treat the OCD, the anxiety or the TMS?
Thank you

 

[louaci]

When going through the medical route, try Nicole Sachs book mind over your body. If you could afford to pay for different medical treatments, maybe consider joining the membership of $99 per month for Nichole and may have more direct supervision. It is not cheap but also not outrageous, you know like another gym membership. There are free programs on this forum, I feel it is more for a willing adult to follow through. Also for young adult, sometimes the more parents get involved, the more they resist. It is sad to see one's child suffer, but ultimately only one could be responsible for his or her own mind and body. Others could proved love and support but can't make them do the work unless they are willing to.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

That's excellent advice about looking to the many resources offered by Nicole Sachs, @louaci.

@annie.I24, you can find Nicole's website at https://www.yourbreakawake.com/ (BreakAwake) or just Google her name. She is the perfect resource because:
1. She was diagnosed with "incurable" chronic and disabling pain from spondylolithesis when she was 19 - which she totally overcame;
2. She was told at 19 that it was too risky for her to consider having children. She has three of her own biological children, who are teens and young adults right now;
3. She is collaborating with her teen stepdaughter on presenting this work for teens and young adults who are suffering in today's dysfunctional world.

Nicole's weekly podcast (going strong since 2018) is literally called The Cure for Chronic Pain. She has two episodes featuring her stepdaughter.

Here's a search link I created on the main page for her podcast - I just put Teens into the keyword search box and came up with three episodes, two of them with Nicole's stepdaughter Kate, and the third is with a young player for the Denver Nuggets who worked personally with Nicole (something the rest of us can't do!) and I also highly recommend that episode. Just click on my link, you'll find links to all three.
https://www.yourbreakawake.com/podcasts/the-cure-for-chronic-pain-with-nicole-sachs-lcsw-2?search=Teens (The Cure for Chronic Pain with Nicole Sachs, LCSW)

These are a must-listen, not just for your daughter but for you as well, together. Because, Mom, kids don't develop serious emotional stress issues like this in a vacuum. You need to go on this journey with her for both your sakes. You didn't say anything about this, but I expect (I certainly hope) you already know this.

If you haven't already, you need to read one of Dr Sarno's books - Healing Back Pain is the classic, considered the "bible" by many. The Divided Mind was his last one: a bit more concise and with six other contributors. The other essential book is Hope and Help for Your Nerves, by Claire Weekes.

My advice for your daughter is that these resources can ease the pain and emotional suffering of chronic conditions even when they are proved to exist. Nicole Sachs still has spondylolithesis in her 50s, but she does not have pain from it.

 

[Diana-M]

Hi, Annie

Tell your daughter, what does she have to lose by considering that her pain is caused by TMS? She has already suffered from it most of her life. If she learns about it, she can make it go away for good. If not, it could continue for life, or get worse. She already has discovered the medical world isn’t working. And that’s because our current practice of medicine totally disregards that the mind can play a part in our physical health. If you honestly sit down and think about it, that doesn’t make much sense.

It’s hard to accept that the cure is inside you. You cure yourself. But knowledge is the cure.

There are so many resources. That’s what’s overwhelming at first. You kind of have to dig through things and find what works best. You personalize the journey.

Anxiety and OCD are also common manifestations of TMS. So you can tackle all the symptoms at once.

Don’t let this site intimidate you. It’s not a requirement for treating TMS. It’s just one resource. Some people do get better fast. Lots do. Some people don’t. It just depends.

There’s a guy who had TMS and got better, then became a coach. His name is Dan Buglio. He makes a little 7 minute daily YouTube video that your daughter might like. It’s very gentle. He talks about eliminating fear. It might be a good intro for you and your daughter. https://youtube.com/@painfreeyou?si=1AElq7mxPrAssc8_

Also: The MindBody Prescription by John Sarno outlines very easily the essential principles of TMS.

Hope your daughter feels better soon!

 

[annie.I24]

That's excellent advice about looking to the many resources offered by Nicole Sachs, @louaci.

@annie.I24, you can find Nicole's website at https://www.yourbreakawake.com/ (BreakAwake) or just Google her name. She is the perfect resource because:
1. She was diagnosed with "incurable" chronic and disabling pain from spondylolithesis when she was 19 - which she totally overcame;
2. She was told at 19 that it was too risky for her to consider having children. She has three of her own biological children, who are teens and young adults right now;
3. She is collaborating with her teen stepdaughter on presenting this work for teens and young adults who are suffering in today's dysfunctional world.

Nicole's weekly podcast (going strong since 2018) is literally called The Cure for Chronic Pain. She has two episodes featuring her stepdaughter.

Here's a search link I created on the main page for her podcast - I just put Teens into the keyword search box and came up with three episodes, two of them with Nicole's stepdaughter Kate, and the third is with a young player for the Denver Nuggets who worked personally with Nicole (something the rest of us can't do!) and I also highly recommend that episode. Just click on my link, you'll find links to all three.
https://www.yourbreakawake.com/podcasts/the-cure-for-chronic-pain-with-nicole-sachs-lcsw-2?search=Teens (The Cure for Chronic Pain with Nicole Sachs, LCSW)

These are a must-listen, not just for your daughter but for you as well, together. Because, Mom, kids don't develop serious emotional stress issues like this in a vacuum. You need to go on this journey with her for both your sakes. You didn't say anything about this, but I expect (I certainly hope) you already know this.

If you haven't already, you need to read one of Dr Sarno's books - Healing Back Pain is the classic, considered the "bible" by many. The Divided Mind was his last one: a bit more concise and with six other contributors. The other essential book is Hope and Help for Your Nerves, by Claire Weekes.

My advice for your daughter is that these resources can ease the pain and emotional suffering of chronic conditions even when they are proved to exist. Nicole Sachs still has spondylolithesis in her 50s, but she does not have pain from it.

thankyou, for the great advice. did you mean that we caused her emotional stress or that we are living it too? we are certainly living the journey with her....

 

[annie.I24]

When going through the medical route, try Nicole Sachs book mind over your body. If you could afford to pay for different medical treatments, maybe consider joining the membership of $99 per month for Nichole and may have more direct supervision. It is not cheap but also not outrageous, you know like another gym membership. There are free programs on this forum, I feel it is more for a willing adult to follow through. Also for young adult, sometimes the more parents get involved, the more they resist. It is sad to see one's child suffer, but ultimately only one could be responsible for his or her own mind and body. Others could proved love and support but can't make them do the work unless they are willing to.

thank you!

 

[Sita]

Hi,
I hope someone can help. My daughter is 19 and is a highly sensitive person....
I just want to help her. Should we continue down the medical route? Do we treat the OCD, the anxiety or the TMS?
Thank you

Hi Annie,

I didn't read others' comments, only yours. Maybe someone else suggested what I'll suggest you.

What does your daughter like to do? What are her interests in life? Hobbies? Talents? Present talents/likes or from the past, when she was a child. Does she like art? Spending time in nature? Pets? Dogs, cats? What kind of food does she enjoy? Is she into comedies? What form of exercise does she like or maybe liked in the past?

I'm trying to make you see the positives in her life, concentrate on what she likes/enjoys and then work to make her notice the positives in her life herself. I think you can help with this if you are patient. I know that you love her. So you'll be patient for certain, at least you'll do your best.

Introduce one meal that she likes today. Cook her that meal or even better, ask her if she can help you cook it and you two do it together. Tomorrow kindly ask her to go with you for a walk outside. In the sun and fresh air. Listen to some soft music while you cook or for 30 min/day so she can hear it too a little bit. Little by little you'll expose her gradually (no rushing and not using force by any means) to beautiful, peaceful, calming things in her life. The things that she forgot about. Don't tell her about this, what you are trying to do for her. Keep it private, just do it.

Try to limit talking about her illness and suffering with her. Just concentrate on the positives.

I would do this if I were you.

I'm a highly sensitive person as well and I stay away from traumatic things as much as possible. I don't read, watch or listen or talk about dramas and traumas, shocking news, violent movies, loud music etc. I concentrate on the beautiful things in life and they help me keep my mind clean and serene and calm. Your daughter needs to shift her mind towards beauty and calmness and .... she'll feel better. Her health will improve. Highly sensitive people are like this, they are traumatized easily but at the same time they can get better fast IF they concentrate on the positive/beauty. Sleep is affected by all these. If she'll sleep better, she'll feel better gradually.

All the best to you and to her. Take care.

 

[louaci]

thankyou, for the great advice. did you mean that we caused her emotional stress or that we are living it too? we are certainly living the journey with her....

We are humans and we interact with each other and we can't control how others react with our behavior and emotions. It is not easy. Especially with loved ones, the cultural and social conditioning plus our own personal traits may form emotions and behavior to "judge" and to "fix" others in the intention of "helping" or "solving their problems". It would create a lot of negative emotions such as misunderstanding, resentment, rage, despair etc.

All we could do ourselves is to learn about oursleves, try our best to love, to understand us and others without judgment, to support, and to accept us and others and be in peace.

When we feel like we are the causes of others' emotional pain, part of it is victimhood and part of it may twist us to compensate to "fix" their pain but not in our authentic way and that would backfire later on.

You will go through this with your daughter and the focus will be on you. She does her emotional work and you do it too. That would be like awakening.

 

[annie.I24]

Hi Annie,

I didn't read others' comments, only yours. Maybe someone else suggested what I'll suggest you.

What does your daughter like to do? What are her interests in life? Hobbies? Talents? Present talents/likes or from the past, when she was a child. Does she like art? Spending time in nature? Pets? Dogs, cats? What kind of food does she enjoy? Is she into comedies? What form of exercise does she like or maybe liked in the past?

I'm trying to make you see the positives in her life, concentrate on what she likes/enjoys and then work to make her notice the positives in her life herself. I think you can help with this if you are patient. I know that you love her. So you'll be patient for certain, at least you'll do your best.

Introduce one meal that she likes today. Cook her that meal or even better, ask her if she can help you cook it and you two do it together. Tomorrow kindly ask her to go with you for a walk outside. In the sun and fresh air. Listen to some soft music while you cook or for 30 min/day so she can hear it too a little bit. Little by little you'll expose her gradually (no rushing and not using force by any means) to beautiful, peaceful, calming things in her life. The things that she forgot about. Don't tell her about this, what you are trying to do for her. Keep it private, just do it.

Try to limit talking about her illness and suffering with her. Just concentrate on the positives.

I would do this if I were you.

I'm a highly sensitive person as well and I stay away from traumatic things as much as possible. I don't read, watch or listen or talk about dramas and traumas, shocking news, violent movies, loud music etc. I concentrate on the beautiful things in life and they help me keep my mind clean and serene and calm. Your daughter needs to shift her mind towards beauty and calmness and .... she'll feel better. Her health will improve. Highly sensitive people are like this, they are traumatized easily but at the same time they can get better fast IF they concentrate on the positive/beauty. Sleep is affected by all these. If she'll sleep better, she'll feel better gradually.

All the best to you and to her. Take care.

thank you, that was lovely, all such beautiful comments. Do you have TMS? I'm wondering if the treatment works the same for HSP's?

 

[JanAtheCPA]

Do we treat the OCD, the anxiety or the TMS?

I realized that this question has not been addressed. It's all what we call "TMS". Dr Sarno ultimately came to the realization that what he called TMS actually encompasses a huge range of symptoms, including anxiety, depression, and all the many forms of OCD , which is an addictive behavior - therefore all of the addictive behaviors can be considered "TMS".

We still use the TMS acronym in Dr Sarno's honor and memory, but it's actually a little outdated. What we're really talking about is MBS, mind-body syndromes. This is also referred to as PPD, psychophysiological disorders.

did you mean that we caused her emotional stress or that we are living it too?

It's really both, as I think @louaci says.

All humans have some version of the TMS brain mechanism, and parents are certainly not immune. Fear and anxiety are inherited traits, passed down through parenting styles.

And look, I have to be honest and say that if your daughter was the one who found us and was personally asking for help, the extreme nature of her symptoms would be setting off an alarm and I would be asking what kind of childhood trauma or adversity she might have experienced or endured.

Perhaps she would be willing to answer this quick survey from the PPDA, especially if the whole family also takes it:
https://ppdassociation.org/ppd-self-questionnaire (Self Quiz — Psychophysiologic Disorders Association)

The best way to help your daughter is to be open and vulnerable and engage in this journey with her, because everyone will benefit.

Plus, she probably needs a new therapist, one who is trained in MBS/PPD. Dr Sarno said that sometimes, medication is needed to be able to get to a place where you can start to do the emotional work. It is a tool to get started.

 

[Sita]

Do you have TMS? I'm wondering if the treatment works the same for HSP's?

Yes, I do.

I don't know (for your second question). I do what I suggested you do for your daughter. I don't know if it will work for her the same but you can try. It might.

 

[homorobothead]

Hi,
I hope someone can help. My daughter is 19 and is a highly sensitive person. She has suffered from unexplained pain on and off all her life, mostly its been attributed to tension, to a false scoliosis, and to a weak core.
A few years ago she had a slipped or trapped disc and couldn't move for 24 hrs, she was pretty traumatised by it and mentions the fear of it happening again frequently. She was also bullied at school and finds life generally pretty tough.

She is now in crisis mode having frequent panic attacks, long periods of head and neck and back pain, (pretty constant since december, but never in the same place), anxiety including food anxiety and is having great difficulty getting ANY sleep. She has been seeing a therapist who specialises in HSP's for a few months. The counsellor has said that she has OCD and is probably ADHD. But her approach to the pain is worrying me - I 'm sure its not physiological, but the counsellor is saying she should 'take care' of the pain as if it were a new born baby and try different things to appease it ie pain meds, change position, yoga, stretches. pain meds don't touch it.
She's seen osteopaths, physios, doctors, massage therapists. All say then can fix it or she can fix it with exercise.
Should she change therapists ? She's terrified to consider TMS because she wants there to be a medical solution and tbh, this forum is pretty scary - its a huge deal to admit to oneself that there are people who are fighting this for years on end
I just want to help her. Should we continue down the medical route? Do we treat the OCD, the anxiety or the TMS?
Thank you

I've seen a lot of great advice on here already, but I'd like to take a different tack, from the perspective of your daughter.

I was a university instructor and academic advisor for years and worked with people your daughter's age for about ten years in the university setting. They felt more comfortable talking to me about their issues because I was closer to their age at the time, so they told me a lot of things they didn't want to tell their folks because, well, she loves you and doesn't want to disappoint you. I was a nice, neutral, FERPA protected space where they never had to worry about what they said getting back to their parents.

The truth is that parents do a lot of what I call "love crushing." I get it. You just want the best for her. You want her to be happy and successful. You want her to be pain free. But, by focusing so intensely on her pain and pain symptoms, you might be inadvertently making her nervous system tuned up, which is making her more anxious, which is making her feel more pain. I don't think this is intentional or you're to blame or anything like that. You might be a little anxious yourself and doing something, anything, in the moment relieves those anxious moments short term.

They did a study once about kids on the playground where they observed over a year the personality traits of children whose parents rushed to them, swooped them up, and made a big deal when they fell down versus the parents who waited and observed to see if their kid was really hurt and then went to them, brushed them off, kissed them, and told them to go play verus the totally neglectful parent. Get this: The kids with the totally neglectful parents and the parents that swooped in had about the same levels of anxiety later on. The group that had the best mental health outcomes were the kids with the watchful, but independence-focused parents.

The reason for that is the kids who knew they were safe, but free to explore and make their own decisions had a sense of ownership. It makes you feel PROUD to solve problems on your own, while knowing there is a gentle force being a safety net. Going down the slide is exhilarating. Jumping from the swing helps you evaluate risk, going on a road trip with your friends lets you understand that the world isn't actually terrifying all the time.

I wonder if maybe finding a camp for her (they have camps for OCD folks that include programs for food issues) that focuses on confidence building and being around other young adults who share her struggles might give her a stronger sense of community and independence. Maybe a camp that focuses on art, if she likes art. Or animals. Or whatever she is interested in. She needs to feel some pride in herself. She needs to know what her body can do. All this therapy and doctors and focus on her trauma is tuning her up. It's screaming "There's something wrong with you!"

I had her exact symptoms, and I'm 36, and I recovered in six weeks. Her brain is still very plastic at 19. I'll bet that if she finds her community with peers her own age where she can socialize without being bullied, and you become her safety net, rather than her whole medicalized world, she'll recover FAST. She can get better!

I highly recommend Alan's Gordon's "The Way Out" as a jumping off point. Nichole Sachs was already mentioned and she works great for a lot of folks.

She needs some space to experiment and be wild. Now, it's just a matter of getting her the confidence to go forth.

It's important to remember that a lot of really powerful people were considered HSPs: MLK Jr., Albert Einstein, Jane Goodall, Abraham Lincoln , Florence Nightingale all took huge risks and made an indelible mark on the world. Just because you're highly sensitive doesn't mean you need to be wrapped in bubble wrap and tucked away.

I hope this didn't come off as preachy. It was meant to be empowering! Much love to y'all. I know this is tough right now.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

The group that had the best mental health outcomes were the kids with the watchful, but independence-focused parents.

@annie.I24, I think that @homorobothead has probably hit the nail on the head, brilliantly.

I'm bookmarking her post for future use.