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Heart flutters

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by Mark1122, Dec 18, 2019.

  1. Mark1122

    Mark1122 Well known member

    I have been trying tot do stuff i normally wouldnt cause of pain. But my palpilations and heart flutters get worse and my pain too. The heart flutters just scare me too much to keep going.

    Ecg normal and 72 hours were okay. But they dont always spot heart dissease there?

    Also my pain is never gone. I try the somatic tracking now. Hasnt helped yet, but i keep doing it. Just been like 5 days.
  2. tmstraveler

    tmstraveler Peer Supporter

    Keep practicing the tracking and remember to not try to eliminate your sensations. Just observe them. Alan’s recordings are really helpful here. Track your breath, then observe your heart beat, then your breath, then your pain, then your breath, etc. Use your breath as a place of calm to observe the sensations that alarm you from a safer distance. Over time they will become less scary. That’s an important first step.

    Keep at it! Remember that we feel anxiety physically. It sounds like you, as so many others do, feel it in your heart and your chest. Tracking that is as important as tracking the pain.
  3. RichieRich

    RichieRich Well known member


    I know precisely what you're going through. There was a period of time, a few years ago, that the heart flutters were a constant with each waking moment. It got so bad at one point that when my wife had moved back Stateside with our son, I had taken maybe 2 magnesium tablets for the fluttering, and I swear I thought I was going to die on the phone talking to my wife. It felt like a machine gun in my chest, I figured this is it. It truly was stress related. I had a lot of issues building up to that point. Thankfully I had a pretty good history with the TMS approach, as well as anxiety and depression management methods.

    I did what I normally do anymore and let it happen. Give it space then move on.

    It was weird trying to get back into running while having that feeling because before and after stopping they'd return as per usual. I was basically having a -stress-related PVC. To be honest, higher cardio output actually made me feel better. After a while, between exercise and giving them their space, they pretty much disappeared.

    I truly empathize with what you're going through. Try giving the sensation it's [space]. Let it happen then move on with life. Don't freak out when it happens though. I think in time you'll find that the body will naturally come back to homeostasis.

    I hope this helps.

  4. Mark1122

    Mark1122 Well known member

    Thanks. I try not to freak out too much but i used to get them once per month and now multiple a Day.

    Few days ago i was trying to excersise and i didnt feel too good and got a bit scared and they hit me during the excersise. But at that time i was already hyperventilating during the excersise. I also get them at moments im calm. Random.

    I do have a very very bloated stomach 24/7. Sortof chronic stress. A lot more than i used to, thus maybe explaining having more flutters? But still get scared aosometimes which makes a downwards circle.
  5. RichieRich

    RichieRich Well known member

    The bloat sounds more like IBS. I used to get that a ton when I was stressed out. It's just one of those things that happens when you're chronically stressed.
  6. Mark1122

    Mark1122 Well known member

    Yeah i didnt know that is IBS. How do you get over these things? I feel like chronic stress isnt something you get over by accepting its TMS and moving on normally with your life? I am on sick leave for 5 months now with on and off working. I am stressed fast but not doing a lot these days and it only got worse after going on sick leave. Fatigue and tired, pressure chest, heart palps and flutters, neck, shoulder, arm, upper back pain (a lot worse when pc and mobile, bowling, pooling etc). Especially the fatigue, bloated stomach and heart flutters+ constant stressed feeling in heart is difficult.

    The thing is i do get scared at one point when resuming activity and symptoms especially of the heart get worse because i think what if i do hav e something and i cant go back, what if im fucking myself up even more now. The heart is just scarier then my arm, neck, trapezius etc since it could be life threatening.

    Resuming activity and thinking that its emotions and not something structurally wrong and writing about emotions didnt work for me, only made it worse. To the point i do get scared again.
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
  7. RichieRich

    RichieRich Well known member

    If i may ask, are you on sick leave because of these things you're experiencing?
  8. Mark1122

    Mark1122 Well known member

    Yes. And i had a schedule where i worked from home and did more hours every 2-3 weeks from 4 hours to 12 but due to bad symptoms quit again.
  9. RichieRich

    RichieRich Well known member


    Yup, know exactly where you're coming from. My anxiety started in February 2012 with chest pains that freaked me out enough to go get checked out only to have an ER doctor try to put me on an beta blocker which I promptly said no to. I did a follow up, chief complaint being nasty feeling in my chest as if my lungs weren't fully inflating or I had a blockage. That doctor definitely didn't understand the situation, nor did I in hindsight. A week later I went into work and was sitting at my desk and BAM!!!! Everything turned grey and almost 8 bit. I proceeded to go to my car and scream and cry uncontrollably not knowing what was happening. There are a whole host of things that led up to my mental breakdown, but at that point I still didn't understand what was happening to me, not unlike yourself. Nothing makes sense and you're full of fear.

    I ended up taking a 3 week leave of absence from work and flew back to my parents to get my head straight. I wasn't there for a more than a week before I had a panic attack in a parking lot near the hospital. I had my mom drop me off and I was immediately rushed into the ER for chest pain. I did the whole nuclear dye test and everything. A few hours later a doctor came by to discharge me, but before he did he said, "dude, you have anxiety." I just kind of went hhmmm.

    During that 3 weeks I contemplated quitting a really good job. I searched endlessly for my magic cure so that I didn't have to quit. Thankfully by week 2, after researching book after book for hours on end, I had found what worked for me. And believe it or not, it wasn't TMS related literature. Just a book about somebody who suffered for years with anxiety and depression. It's called At Last a Life by Paul David. This is what helped pull my mind and body back together again. It's a really good read. And I'm in no way affiliated with this individual or promoting his literature. I have this book next to my TMS literature because I feel it takes a multifaceted approach to solving these types of problems.

    It sounds like this is your first big [bang], so to speak, when it comes to PPD and anxiety disorders. I recommend you go into this open minded and don't put a time limit on your recovery. It will happen if you let it, and like with anything, your results may vary. Start with reminding yourself that the sensation is ok, and that you don't need to fear it. It doesn't matter if it's your neck, arm, head, back, body in general. Let it happen then move on. You basically welcome the discomfort in this exercise. Simply recognize it for what it is and go back to what you were doing.

    And don't think for a second I didn't walk around in public wanting to clutch my chest in pain. I looked like an absolute psychopath some days, but I overcame it over the course of a few months as I became more comfortable with the sensations, gradually regaining confidence in my ability to deal with any future relapses. Let it happen and move on.

    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
    tmstraveler likes this.
  10. Mark1122

    Mark1122 Well known member

    Thanks man. I recognize parts what youve been through. Its Nice to hear from some one with the same. I will get that book for sure then. Its hard to be okay with symptoms when they get a lot worse during certain situations like computer, mobile. But i will start with excersise and healthy food and build up computer time slowly i guess.
  11. RichieRich

    RichieRich Well known member

    The PC/mobile pain is a tricky one because we're so reliant on our hands. In one of my worst experiences to date, I had such extreme muscle tension on my right side that one day I lifted my arm ever so slightly, to adjust my mouse, and it felt like somebody drove an ice pick into my shoulder. I had extreme nerve pain from my neck to all of my fingers. Anybody who's had cervical radiculopathy knows what I'm talking about.

    I literally had to put my keyboard in between my knees and typed with my right hand as if I were using a back scratcher, only my arm felt like it was on fire. I had to give up and go home because the pain was truly debilitating. It took weeks to get over the initial pain. What I was left with was extreme pain when I did keystrokes or mouse movements. So I got into the habit of tucking my elbow in and two-fingering. I kept my shoulder guarded, which was the first problem. This produced a pain cycle that went on well over a year. There was a lot of boozing and self pity involved, but I actually never missed work, and nobody knew the excruciating amount of pain I was in. The only reason I didn't quit my job at that point was because I was overseas with a new born and my spouse was having her own mental health issues with having no family around; two nuts didn't make an almond joy that you'd want to share with people.

    Going back to TMS literature, again, not promoting just taking a stroll down memory lane, I found Steve Ozanich's book, The Great Pain Deception, after another panic fueled search for a cure. This helped me get more comfortable with the physical pain side of the PPD equation.

    One day I just gave up, like with anxiety, and started exercising again even if it was going to kill me. I will say, jumping jacks actually helped a lot. My fear was my shoulder, this exercise really helped ease my fear and eventually the pain abated.

    I know my responses are verbose, but the point is to highlight two points: 1) This stuff sucks. We've all been through our own personal hell what with our experiences that we've posted on these forums, to provide education, empathy and support. 2) You will get past this. You will look back and go, "wtf was I even thinking?"

    Just let it happen and move on.

  12. Mark1122

    Mark1122 Well known member

    Thanks man for your replies! I am getting a bit more faith again. But its still hard. The thing is when i believed it was TMS it only got worse and when i went to excersise my shoulders again in gym i slowly started to get more and more pain in trapezius and right arm and hand cramped up cause of it. I also got a lot of naussea and felt sick. Same happened when i started to resumé activity with pc. Makes it hard to keep a right mind. It feels like im killing myself.

    I have been on my mobile for 1-2 hours last 2 days again. Pain increased as did being tired and heart skips beats more. It really feels my heart has a hard time dealing with the nagging pain and me being tired. Still scares me a bit. I also ran 4km yesterday that went pretty well. So thats good.

    I went 2 hours in a row on mobile reading articles. Pain increased (neck, arms, trapezius, also hands got real cold and white.) I stand up and i feel sortof tightness in my heart, like its gonna explode and has a hard time. Feels scary, had to catch some breath. Now i feel tension and pain throught my upper body. I feel sortof butterflies in my stomach, real tension and anxiety. Maybe im unconsiously scared for being on Mobile or pc.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2019
  13. RichieRich

    RichieRich Well known member

    This isn't an over night thing. Just keep reminding yourself to let it happen. Adjust your position as necessary, take breaks, or stretch. Just don't get into a cycle where when you stretch, you're getting worked up or worried why your stretch hasn't remedied the issue. Getting too consumed with the tension and wanting results asap give the problems too much power.

    Imagine you're sparring with a partner and they're getting better punches than you, and you're becoming winded by the jabs and gut shots (tension). In this case you need to simply give up. The other person will eventually stop. Let the beating happen then dust yourself off and move on.

    A few weeks ago I had a flare up, as we all do, and my shoulder got progressively tighter, my tricep was hurting, and I felt like I had explosive tennis elbow. This episode also affected my hand and wrist. It effing hurt to use a mouse or type. I did what I normally do, and gave the pain its space and [tried] to distract myself with my work. Let's be real, the pain is real. It's not something that can be dismissed as in your head. However, it can derive from the mind.

    In my case, it's usually an emotional stress response, relative to anxiety and depression. When the pain hits, I try to be mindful of what may have contributed to it. When I feel I've found the source I work to remedy the situation, but also move towards the pain as in to give it permission to happen. I just let it happen. My pain abated a few days after that episode.

    Imagine the pain as a background process. Let it run, you got other shit to do.
    Marls and tmstraveler like this.
  14. Mark1122

    Mark1122 Well known member

    Yes i understand thanks. The thing is i can handle the pain now and i didnt worry about it getting worse when on mobile. But when i stood up outof bed, after being on my mobile for a while, nu heart felt like IT got squeezed and skipped some beats and i had to take some breaths, it was scary. Now im a bit scared to.continue using pc and mobile.

    I find it hard to find an emotional cause for it all. It always gets worse with pc/mobile or something similar activity. The pain plus heart flutters etc.

    I also hear a lot of people about flare ups, but i have constant pain getting worse or less depending on activity but that would be conditioning?

    Its just hard to continue when i finally can resume activity with a good mind but these heart things get bad which is scary.
  15. RichieRich

    RichieRich Well known member

    It was this line of thought that finally opened my eyes to the possibility that it was emotion driven. Where I got caught up, like yourself, was I was looking for a smoking gun. This trying to pinpoint the precise cause just created a feedback loop in my mind, constantly searching. It took me a while to realize that it was a combination of things. Lumping them together under a single umbrella allowed me to finally understand and accept that while I was chasing the chest pain and back pain (the micro) I wasn't considering the fear and anxiety (the macro). This is how I came to accept that my emotions were the driving force behind my issues. Food for thought.
  16. Mark1122

    Mark1122 Well known member

    You mean the emotional cause is the anxiety and fear? Since fear is An emotion?

    When it started i was kindof depressed. Drank every night at home and quit school. Felt alone in class, didnt have friends when started the university. But i told myself that i didnt like those people anyway, which made it easier to not have to try to connect with them, becuase why would i if i didnt even like them. Having no friends and sitting alone all the time plus high study pressure made me drop out and drink every night while chatting online, becuase i did miss human connection.

    Anyway this was when i was 18, i am 27 now. I started to get a little anxiety here for heart failure. At 20 this got outof hand and had full blown panic attacks everyday. Which made me look for distraction in 18 hours a day gaming, while sitting in a tensed position cause of the anxiety.

    Started to develop pain in hand and arm slowly. Alarm bells went off: omg am i getting RSI?? I was scared searched the internet and readt about permanent nerve damage if not taking rest. And i didnt rest enough after 2 weeks i was back at it: gaming 18 hours a day again. The pain and cramping spread to neck and trapezius (old injury trapezius from gym). Trapezius pain was the worst by far.

    From here on i never took good rest and feared my nerve damage was/is permanent inreversible. And i struggled mainly with school and my pains and panic attacks. I am still doubting if i have real damage atm. And from 24/25 got palpilations too. Skipped beats like once a month to a few skips and flutters a day now. I binch drank a lot from 18 to 25 and went to rehab 2 years ago. I also took benzofor 2 years everyday all day. Thats also a reason to think my heart might got damaged.

    I have written about stuff that happened when the anxiety started, since this might be where TMS started? But havent helped with curing.
  17. RichieRich

    RichieRich Well known member

    From one hardcore gamer to another, you probably don't have nerve damage from gaming. I'm 38 now, but gave up hardcore PC and console gaming when I was 33. I only quit because I was moving a lot for work. My 5 y/o son and I have recently been on an Xbox tear since Christmas though.

    When left to your own devices, your mind will wander. I've largely lived a loner life since I was a teen. My sister and I were adopted young only to pretty much be emotionally discarded when our biological siblings were born. I hardly ever had friends but was well liked, at least I think.

    Fast forward to 2012, I was binge drinking at night only to turn around and work 15 hour days. On the weekends I would binge drink and stay in my ratty motel room, only leaving to cross the street to get chicken wings. I didn't have a smart phone nor internet for months. This would lead to my eventual downfall. Between the alcohol, caffeine, long work hours, solitude, and thinking waaaay too much about getting back with my now wife, my panic attack was inevitable.

    I still drink. I obviously don't let it get in the way of my job or family, but as I struggle to take so much as an Advil for pain, I'll stick with my alcohol; love my Bourbon.

    Writing about it is part of the equation. It takes time to change your mindset. It's a lot of baggage to sift through.

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