healing from continual fight or flight

[learningmore]

I saw a podcast episode last night titled something like "Got chronic disease?" and the subtitle was we all have them from constant fight or flight, which got me worried.

Alright, recently I have been reading more about this.

Gabor Mate (when the body says no) - I haven't read this yet but apparently it's about chronic health problems caused by stress.

John Sarno (healing back pain) - accounts here get this book.

Janice Hadlock (recovery from parkinsons) - I am reading this book. This gets a little new agey, but her description of personalities BEFORE Parkinsons is commenced is fascinating. Apparently people who go on to develop parkinsons often share similar traits beforehand. Traits that many of us get. Traits that arise from constantly being in fight or flight (increased norepinephrine). Mostly, she says people are too afraid to turn it off, and live in a setting that should only occur for seconds to minutes, for years or more.

And what's more, she says in her book that humans often develop this disease when the stressor disappears. Because now, they can relax, and now that they're not in survival mode anymore, their anatomy is unable to process it anymore. One example in the book was when the abusive uncle dies. That is the trigger to develop Parkinsons, because finally you can relax, but your body is all miswired after years and years of fight or flight.

I watch my dad, who has Parkinsons, have many of these traits. Exceptionally smart, people pleaser, etc. Basically he is in survival mode nonstop, and now he has Parkinsons. The comparison was similar to having super powers for your entire life, which becomes part of your personality, and which you may not want to relinquish, and which is not tolerable for huge stretches. And when it happens, you develop chronic disease.

How can we prevent this?

How can we recover?

What meditation, mentality, exercise, supplements, with other stuff, can stop this?

I am afraid for myself that I am putting myself in to a position where problems like this might happen.

I'm in fight or flight most of the time, and my nMom sure knows how to get me into it instantly, numerous times per day.

It's calm. It's peaceful. BAM BAM STOMP STOMP STOMP RAGE CLEAN LECTURE BELITTLING TIME!

I have somewhat-seriously commented on here before that my mom draws her energy from being annoying and from getting a response from people. I actually somewhat think this is true. When it's calm, my mom will start drama and empower herself with it. She feels life force from other's misery. Kind of a different subject, but similar.\

I post here because I have seen other discussions saying that specific doctors feel there isn't a way to recover, and Sarno is the person who says you can recover. Is there anything physiologically besides changing some thoughts to actually heal the anatomy?

 

[TG957]

As someone prone to the fight or flight response and constant worry, I can suggest two approaches:
1. De-sensitization. Desensitize your nervous system by meditating. It works, it worked for me and for other people too. I posted on this forum so many times about meditation, I don't want to repeat it again, you can search for my posts with a keyword "meditation".
2. Mental adjustment. I consciously tell myself, time and time again, that my responses to the perceived dangers are too intense. When I find myself in the situations that trigger my anxiety, I take a break to remind myself that most people would not view this particular situation as dangerous or triggering. By just taking a 2-minute pause I spared myself from many unnecessary fights and inadequate reactions.

 

[learningmore]

2. Mental adjustment. I consciously tell myself, time and time again, that my responses to the perceived dangers are too intense. When I find myself in the situations that trigger my anxiety, I take a break to remind myself that most people would not view this particular situation as dangerous or triggering. By just taking a 2-minute pause I spared myself from many unnecessary fights and inadequate reactions.

I may be wrong, or maybe just in reaction mode, but this reply is an oversimplification, and suggests you have never lived with a narcissist before.

It was basically telling a depressed kid to "just cheer up."

It was victim blaming.

Constant threat? Oh, sure, I'll just remind myself I'm wrong and invalidate my own feelings; sounds like what my mom does anyway.

 

[ARCUser831]

I've lived in a very toxic environment before. I have a borderline personality sister (which, while others may disagree, my whole life's experience has taught me is a synonym for "really shitty person"), a stepdad that was an addict and hot-head (died of an overdose in 2018), and a mother that when at her most unhealthy fits the description of covert narcissist. Growing up in that environment ABSOLUTELY contributed to my personality today - it's the reason I'm extremely conflict-averse, I quite literally shut down at the sign of any possible emotional turmoil...the list goes on.

The way you described your mom is how I describe my sister, she thrives on conflict. In fact, healthy and normal interactions and situations literally upset her and make her uncomfortable. She uses people as pawns, no one understands her, she's always the victim - all the while doing nothing but hurting everyone in reach. She is the worst person that I know.

When I left the house, I spent a solid year reading books about emotionally immature parents, narcissism, BPD, etc. to better understand those things and their impact on me. I was also able to start enjoying and living my life without having to walk on eggshells or constantly worrying what conflict was around the corner. I think many people on this forum had difficult childhoods and bad experiences like this, and some unlucky ones are still in those situations, but for the most part, the emotional work being done here is to process and accept how past events or current stressors that are not actually dangerous leave us in fight or flight and teaching our minds and bodies that we are not in the danger we're perceiving. I understand that what you're saying is that you really are in an unsafe environment right now, and therefore telling your mind to stop seeing it that way is not an option...nor should that be the solution. In fact, I would think that would cause even more suppressed rage.

My last year living in the that house can only be described as a gaslit, dysfunctional hellscape. I'm sorry to say, but I honestly don't think you will be able to accomplish the calmer mental state you're looking for unless you remove yourself from that toxic environment and distance yourself from toxic personalities like your mother. Is that an option for you at this time?

 

[learningmore]

Immediately I am essentially living here and cannot easily leave (cash reasons). Long story.

I want to minimize damage.

I cannot relax, and even now, in another room from my parents, I am just waiting for my mom to start chaos. Or do something mocking to my father (who has Parkinsons).

I do not even feel safe sleeping. My mom goes to bed whenever, and then when she decides to awaken, she is super loud, stomping around, playing loud music, slamming things, if I am awake everyone else has to be, too!

So I can't even regularly sleep.

And it's always hot here in the summer. So that adds to my discomfort of sleeping. We have air conditioning, they just dislike using it.

I feel like a big whiny baby BUT my body is always right. I feel uncomfortable around my mother. I cannot even look at her some times. She says whatever she wants, whenever she wants, and you are not allowed to disagree. Even when it is ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT.

 

[ARCUser831]

I really feel for you. Your mother sounds like my sister, but it would be much worse having my mom exhibit those traits versus just my sibling.

My first thoughts are to set boundaries but people like that tend to respond very poorly boundaries being imposed on them. If, at a base level, you're really trying to find a way to calm your nervous system and emotionally distance yourself from your mother, I think you need to try to things to implement into your life that make you feel less stuck.

The environment is toxic, but your inability to escape it is what I would think is triggering the danger signal in your nervous system - understandably so. Do you have ways to get out of the house for extended periods? Do you have breaks from your mother in a day (does she work, etc.)? Have you tried things like meditation?

While I don't think you'll be able to fully relax until you can actually remove yourself from the environment, some of the TMS principles could still apply pretty well. At the end of the day, you are not in physical danger, the danger putting your brain in fight or flight mode is still emotional in nature, and allowing yourself to process and feel those emotions so you can begin to stop viewing them as such dangerous things can help you calm down and lower stress. I think you're trying very hard right now not to feel the way you're feeling (I want to repeat, I completely get it!) because accepting and feeling those things seems like it'll make your situation worse, but I think on the contrary, trying to keep them at bay is causing a buildup. Process your emotions for you. Nothing about TMS ever indicates you need to express these things to your mom, but you're building up an internal conflict in yourself to cope right now and that is where TMS is born.

I know this is all very hard, and I'm sorry again you're dealing with this. I hope it is very temporary for you.

 

[Cactusflower]

Although I have compassion for your situation, it also sounds like you feel you have no control in your situation.
You are wrong.
@ARCUser831 is absolutely right that many of the methods used for TMS symptoms are about the mind, calming the nervous system, understanding how much control YOU can have in your life if you choose it, mindset, self-confidence… and all the personality traits that trigger your reactions. This is how you begin to feel like the adult you are, by training your mind to recognize you are an adult (your subconscious thinks it is two) and that YOU can be in control. You can choose how to react to your Mom, you can shape a way in your life to stop being the victim.
Dr. Hanscom frequently states until we can learn to stop self-victimization we will find it a challenge to gain the skills and mindset to climb out of what he calls “the abyss”.
Dr.Hanscom’s writings and his entire treatment method is available for free in his blog posts. He is amazingly generous.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

THIS IS BRILLIANT

At the end of the day, you are not in physical danger, the danger putting your brain in fight or flight mode is still emotional in nature, and allowing yourself to process and feel those emotions so you can begin to stop viewing them as such dangerous things can help you calm down and lower stress. I think you're trying very hard right now not to feel the way you're feeling (I want to repeat, I completely get it!) because accepting and feeling those things seems like it'll make your situation worse, but I think on the contrary, trying to keep them at bay is causing a buildup. Process your emotions for you. Nothing about TMS ever indicates you need to express these things to your mom, but you're building up an internal conflict in yourself to cope right now and that is where TMS is born.

 

[TG957]

We rarely have full control over the circumstances life puts us in. But we can always have control over how we respond to those circumstances and what we do to ourselves by responding in a certain way. One of the best books written on that subject belongs to Viktor Frankl, whose life circumstances could have not been any worse than they were.

 

[learningmore]

While I don't think you'll be able to fully relax until you can actually remove yourself from the environment, some of the TMS principles could still apply pretty well. At the end of the day, you are not in physical danger, the danger putting your brain in fight or flight mode is still emotional in nature, and allowing yourself to process and feel those emotions so you can begin to stop viewing them as such dangerous things can help you calm down and lower stress. I think you're trying very hard right now not to feel the way you're feeling (I want to repeat, I completely get it!) because accepting and feeling those things seems like it'll make your situation worse, but I think on the contrary, trying to keep them at bay is causing a buildup. Process your emotions for you. Nothing about TMS ever indicates you need to express these things to your mom, but you're building up an internal conflict in yourself to cope right now and that is where TMS is born.

My body feels like I am. I literally have an anxiety attack when she walks in the room.

Immediate fight or flight. Numerous times per day.

I am not immediately in physical danger, but I get threatened with getting kicked out (my mom knows I have no money), etc. So there's that fear. She likes to threaten me when she feels bad about herself, because seemingly narcissists need to push their bad feelings onto others to feel better. So when she feels bad, she has to show her authority.

This has resulted in me being super aware of emotions and controlling her mood. My dad does the same thing.

This has resulted in me getting into multiple relationships with females with borderline personality disorder.

Yes, if I lived somewhere else (safe) and had lots of money, I feel it shouldn't bother me as much.

Even the other places I have lived have been shitty. EVEN WHEN I WAS LIVING IN A LUXURY TOWER I had the craziest neighbors, loud bass all day long, I cannot relax, I cannot sleep, I cannot do anything. Management does nothing. etc. So I always feel unsafe all the time no matter what and even money isn't the way out. And of course, I was frightened of them, but eventually got the motivation to ask them to turn it down, which did not work. Ever. So fuck them.

Then I moved across country. Shitty roommates. Shitty neighbors. More shitty roommates. Everyone is loud and annoying all the time and when I ask them to not be annoying, they are just more annoying.

I cannot figure out why this keeps happening.

I have not been able to relax in over a decade.

I am not looking for replies like "it's how you respond to it" or that kind of thing. When I cannot sleep because of bass, and yes, I got white noise and ear plugs, THAT'S NOT MY CHOICE TO BE ANNOYED BY IT. If I kick you in the dick every day and then tell you "don't respond to it," that's just shitty advice.

I don't even want to control my environment. I just want to find a place where people aren't shitty.

Everyone is shitty.

My mom is shitty.

My roommates were shitty.

My neighbors were shitty.

For fuck's sake why can't I just find a peaceful place where it's actually quiet and comfortable?

I am somehow willing this shit into my life and I cannot figure out why. Everywhere I live is loud and annoying. I mean music rattling the walls two rooms away, with ear plugs. How come I even have to wear earplugs in my own place? What the fuck is that all about? Stop victim blaming and give me some decent advice. Even my own landlord told me "I'm just too sensitive." THE WALLS ARE SHAKING, I'M NOT TOO SENSITIVE. FOR FUCKING REAL.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

I think perhaps there might be a misunderstanding of what this forum is for. The purpose of this forum is only to discuss the physical symptoms of what Dr. John Sarno labled "TMS" and how to manage those symptoms by using emotional self-help techniques. That is all.

When people ask on this forum how they can manage their problems, it is reasonable for others to assume that those people understand what we do and why we are here. Accordingly, the advice that is offered (completely free, by the way - this site doesn't even have advertising) is only ever going to be about how to manage fear and emotions.

I don't believe that you will find what you want here. I can't make anyone leave, but I would at least request that respect be given to the time, effort, and CARE that is offered by everyday people (not professionals). For free. It is offered without any expectations other than a desire to see people regaining their mental and physical health.

That is all.