Having trouble accepting its TMS, but want to and believe it is

[Polydactylkat]

Hi all! I am fairly new to TMS. I’m working my way through the SEP, I’m on day 5. Before that I read MindBody Prescription and am reading The Way Out now, too.

I’m having trouble really accepting that I have TMS, like in my gut. Logically, I know it makes sense. My primary issue is lumbar pain. I’ve had x-rays and an MRI. Some arthritis, disc degeneration, a disc bulge or two, some of the usual culprits. When I discussed my results with a spine specialist, he told me that my spine looked like a typical spine for someone of my age and that nothing on there indicated it would be the cause of my pain. He said it might be, but there really was no definite connection. (In hindsight, I do appreciate that he didn’t just tell me the abnormalities were the cause of my pain as it seems some other doctors do).

The lumbar pain is there everyday. I now have upper back/neck pain, and I have an order for an MRI for that too, but I suspect TMS. It started when I was super stressed about seeing a doc, getting images done and discussing steroid injections for my lower back. That all happened over a few months and the new pain started, and I immediately panicked that there was something else wrong with my spine, that this new pain would be forever, etc. That makes me think it’s stress induced TMS and not likely anything structural.

So while I tell myself and know there are no real structural issues, my back is strong and not fragile, my pain is in my brain and not actually damage to my body or a sign of danger and that it is from TMS, I just can’t quite seem to fully digest that.

About a week ago when I was really getting into my TMS research, I had a few days where I thought I had internalized it, and I had two days where I felt my pain was improving and I felt hopeful, but now I’m back to my regular pain and not quite being able to believe my pain is TMS.

Any recommendations on how to really internalize this? Is it just too early in the process? Can I progress if I believe I have TMS logically but still have some doubts deep inside? I keep connecting my pain with my body, even when I know there’s no structural issue. I think of tight muscles, physical tension, but it could be the TMS causing that tightness and tension, right?

Any guidance, insight, experiences or solidarity welcomed! Thanks!!

 

[Patty Cakes]

I am struggling too, with that same question--is it really TMS. I have TMJ, I've had it for decades. My husband has been in hospitals and rehabs for well over two years. It's been incredibly difficult on me. I have fear of doctors, hospitals, etc. My pain was typically on my TMJ side of my body. Then the last couple of years the pain would move to the other side of my body, then my neck, then back again. it was maddening. So much so that I kept a pain journal for two years, writing down everything I did and linking it to the pain I felt. FInally, with some research, I found this TMS and started reading "The Way Out" and it made so much sense to me. I started working on the Pain Reprocessing Workbook and realized what my core hurt was. The emotional pain was so raw, so traumatic. My pain actually increased. I"ve been crying a lot, really feeling that deep emotional pain. MY body or some part of it, always feels so tight. I did and am doinsomatic tracking but realizing it was my painful emotions (not being heard, dismissed, etc) was more painful than the years of every day pain I felt. I'm still reaching out for help but what I've been told is to look at your emotions. ITs been really hard work but this site has been so helpful. I wish I had more to offer but just wanted to tell you you are not alone in dealing with all of this. I"ve been doing this for about two months and I still have so much to learn.

 

[Polydactylkat]

I am struggling too, with that same question--is it really TMS. I have TMJ, I've had it for decades. My husband has been in hospitals and rehabs for well over two years. It's been incredibly difficult on me. I have fear of doctors, hospitals, etc. My pain was typically on my TMJ side of my body. Then the last couple of years the pain would move to the other side of my body, then my neck, then back again. it was maddening. So much so that I kept a pain journal for two years, writing down everything I did and linking it to the pain I felt. FInally, with some research, I found this TMS and started reading "The Way Out" and it made so much sense to me. I started working on the Pain Reprocessing Workbook and realized what my core hurt was. The emotional pain was so raw, so traumatic. My pain actually increased. I"ve been crying a lot, really feeling that deep emotional pain. MY body or some part of it, always feels so tight. I did and am doinsomatic tracking but realizing it was my painful emotions (not being heard, dismissed, etc) was more painful than the years of every day pain I felt. I'm still reaching out for help but what I've been told is to look at your emotions. ITs been really hard work but this site has been so helpful. I wish I had more to offer but just wanted to tell you you are not alone in dealing with all of this. I"ve been doing this for about two months and I still have so much to learn.

Thanks for the reply. It may be that I need to get deeper into my emotions. I know I hold in sadness, as I will tear up at the smallest or most random thing. These past 2 weeks or so I’ve decided to just let the tears out. Even if they’re not related to what is happening at that time, the sadness is coming from somewhere so I may as well let it out. Tonight’s journaling also resulted in a good crying session. It’s exhausting, but I’m sure it’s good for me. What I haven’t broken into yet is my anger. I have a feeling I’ve got a LOT of repressed anger, from similar emotions to you - feeling dismissed, not being heard, being taken for granted. I’m going to work up to that and hopefully that will help. I’m saving the anger for my therapist though lol because I don’t know what’s going to come out when I start to dig for that!

I hope things work out well for you

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

When I discussed my results with a spine specialist, he told me that my spine looked like a typical spine for someone of my age and that nothing on there indicated it would be the cause of my pain.

That is a huge coup - what a fantastic doctor!

That all happened over a few months and the new pain started, and I immediately panicked that there was something else wrong with my spine, that this new pain would be forever, etc. That makes me think it’s stress induced TMS and not likely anything structural.

That's a very strong sign yes - especially if the panic seems to have led to a new symptom. When/how did the initial pain start? Where there any specific stressors or life events going on at the time? Did it start with an injury?

Any recommendations on how to really internalize this? Is it just too early in the process? Can I progress if I believe I have TMS logically but still have some doubts deep inside?

Doubt is fine but then the progression is challenging the doubt and bringing it into the light. What do you feel is driving your doubt in the main? Then it can be addressed (and a strategy can be made depending on what it is).

As long as the neurological side of things is clear and nothing sinister has been found, I think you're definitely safe to proceed on the basis that it's TMS.

I had a few days where I thought I had internalized it, and I had two days where I felt my pain was improving and I felt hopeful, but now I’m back to my regular pain and not quite being able to believe my pain is TMS.

That's even more great evidence, as why would your belief improve the pain in that instance if it were structural?

I keep connecting my pain with my body, even when I know there’s no structural issue. I think of tight muscles, physical tension, but it could be the TMS causing that tightness and tension, right?

It could be, but it's probably unlikely I would say to be causing the level of pain that you are in to warrant investigating it and trying to heal it. And you're spot on in that TMS can contribute to muscle tension.

What I would do is write an evidence list that lists all of the reasons indicating this is neuroplastic - I would use Dr Schubiner's FIT criteria to make it, and then I would review it constantly (I had mine on my desk for 6 months and read it every day). I think you're in a great position, if it is TMS then the evidence will become clear the more you look at it through a psychological lens (both in the past, but then new evidence is seen going forward once you understand what to look for and spot - you become a detective) - and this evidence will help you to overcome your doubt as part of the process

 

[Polydactylkat]

That is a huge coup - what a fantastic doctor!



That's a very strong sign yes - especially if the panic seems to have led to a new symptom. When/how did the initial pain start? Where there any specific stressors or life events going on at the time? Did it start with an injury?

The stressor was realizing that physical therapy wasn't making much of a difference to my lower back pain and that I needed to get it checked out further. I have a lot of health anxiety, so even before the ortho appointment I was anxious, wondering what could be wrong with my back and fearing the worst. Then I saw the doc and he said that if PT isn't working, I could talk to another doc about pain management, so I made that appointment. Her take was that my conditions weren't going to improve, and that I should try steroid injections. I scheduled that, but I have a phobia of injections in general and the idea of some in my back petrified me (but I was desperate). All this to say that over the few months these appointments were happening, I was extremely anxious, scared, stressed, depressed. My neck would sometimes bother me after sleeping, like when you "sleep on it funny" but no injury. Its possible my brain took that as an opportunity to keep the pain going. No current or prior injury there. The doc and my physical therapist said it was most likely muscular and brought on by stress/tension. The injection doc particularly upset me with her approach and in just throwing her hands up and saying "I dunno, talk to another doc about another procedure" when the injections didn't work. At that point I didn't trust her opinion, I felt like she was just shilling injections and ablations and all sorts of stuff I didn't want to dl if I could at all avoid it.

Long answer there to say no injury, lots of stress when the new pain started. Then, when the pain started, lots of panicking.

Doubt is fine but then the progression is challenging the doubt and bringing it into the light. What do you feel is driving your doubt in the main? Then it can be addressed (and a strategy can be made depending on what it is).

As long as the neurological side of things is clear and nothing sinister has been found, I think you're definitely safe to proceed on the basis that it's TMS.

That's a good question. Its like my mind keeps finding ways it could still be my body. Like when I say "there's nothing actually wrong with my spine" it says "well, what about my muscles? What if there is something going on with my muscles and I hurt them by engaging in activities and assuming its mental?" But then I think, "what am I going to do to hurt myself? Sprain a muscle? If I'm going to do that, it would happen regardless of this pain because sprains happen for other reasons, not just moving when there is psychosomatic pain." Then my brain says "what if there really is something wrong with your muscles and you just don't know it?" And I remind myself lots of imaging was done, nothing noted about muscles. Nothing noted about nerves, and I don't even have have the typical nerve type pain (tingling, numbness.) Then my brain gets stuck on stiffness and tightness. I'm stiff when I wake up and after I sit for a while. Is the stiffness part of TMS or just the pain? If stiffness isn't part of TMS or tight muscles aren't part of TMS, then does that mean something *is* wrong with me physically? I respond, stiffness isn't pain and tightness isn't pain. I have been relatively inflexible during my life and didn't always have this pain.

Its just like an argument with my brain, which somehow logically knows this can be TMS but for some reason can't fully accept it.

Maybe I'm scared to admit it because if I admit it and I can't fix it even with that knowledge I will feel devastated, like a failure. That's part of my personality (that aligns with TMS). I'm afraid to be hopeful. Yet, I know that isn't a helpful approach. What harm is there in trying? And I remember the importance of outcome independence.

That's even more great evidence, as why would your belief improve the pain in that instance if it were structural?



It could be, but it's probably unlikely I would say to be causing the level of pain that you are in to warrant investigating it and trying to heal it. And you're spot on in that TMS can contribute to muscle tension.

Here we go - if TMS can contribute to muscle tension, then that answers my question to myself. Because I think that's all I really have at this point, muscle tension associated with pain. Is this mentioned anywhere specifically? I think the thing is I've been trying to lessen the physical tension only, but without addressing the emotional tension it never stays away for long.

What I would do is write an evidence list that lists all of the reasons indicating this is neuroplastic - I would use Dr Schubiner's FIT criteria to make it, and then I would review it constantly (I had mine on my desk for 6 months and read it every day). I think you're in a great position, if it is TMS then the evidence will become clear the more you look at it through a psychological lens (both in the past, but then new evidence is seen going forward once you understand what to look for and spot - you become a detective) - and this evidence will help you to overcome your doubt as part of the process

Ill check out Dr. Schubiner's FIT criteria. So far I've only really read Sarno and Gordon. I did start an evidence list based on Gordon's recommendation, but I'm sure there's more to add to it.

Thank you so much for your response. It helped me think through some things. I know my responses were long but, well, you got me thinking!

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

The stressor was realizing that physical therapy wasn't making much of a difference to my lower back pain and that I needed to get it checked out further.

That will definitely flare things up and contribute its chronicity, but I meant more so in the lead up to the pain itself, so more testing for a specific emotional trigger for the pain prior to its onset.

Its possible my brain took that as an opportunity to keep the pain going. No current or prior injury there. The doc and my physical therapist said it was most likely muscular and brought on by stress/tension.

Very possible - and although I appreciate that it likely wasn't what you wanted to hear at the time and it might have been dismissing, that's a great result in terms of indicating TMS.

And I remind myself lots of imaging was done, nothing noted about muscles. Nothing noted about nerves, and I don't even have have the typical nerve type pain (tingling, numbness.) Then my brain gets stuck on stiffness and tightness.

Very good - and I love that you're fighting back with logic! This is brilliant healing in action, I did this a lot too and it's great that you're not giving into these fears (which are understandable but don't stand up when tested with logic and evidence). Your brain is simply very conservative for the sake of survival (which is a necessary aspect of our primitive brain) - it struggles to let go of the pain sometimes as it is protectionary in nature, it just needs some extra convincing

I respond, stiffness isn't pain and tightness isn't pain. I have been relatively inflexible during my life and didn't always have this pain.

Exactly - that's a brilliant response. It's highly unlikely that stiffness and tightness are creating this level of symptom - as you alluded to, you know this and you know what basic stiffness and tightness feel like.

Is this mentioned anywhere specifically? I think the thing is I've been trying to lessen the physical tension only, but without addressing the emotional tension it never stays away for long.

Exactly it becomes a band-aid - stretch it out and the emotional factors tighten it right back up again. It's like you're trying to get water out of a canoe with a hole in it.

It is listed in the TMS guide as being potentially TMS (and then you'd turn to the FIT criteria to rule it in) - I think there's a longstanding acceptance even in the medical model that stress causes muscle tension - so I think that might be why I can't find a specific section discussing it (I just had a quick look through the books I have) but if I do then I'll let you know and I've definitely read about it and been taught it at length in TMS world - https://www.apa.org/topics/stress/body

Ill check out Dr. Schubiner's FIT criteria. So far I've only really read Sarno and Gordon. I did start an evidence list based on Gordon's recommendation, but I'm sure there's more to add to it.

Perfect! Sounds good

 

[Polydactylkat]

That will definitely flare things up and contribute its chronicity, but I meant more so in the lead up to the pain itself, so more testing for a specific emotional trigger for the pain prior to its onset.

Oh, I thought you were referring to the upper back/neck pain. The emotional trigger for that was all the stuff going on with my lower back. I didn’t have upper/neck pain until I was so stressed about that.

For my lower back, it started when I was pregnant and then got worse a few years later when I had severe pneumonia. The emotional stress around pregnancy and such a big life change probably started the lower back stuff. The pneumonia was incredibly scary, I was hospitalized, stuck in bed for months, thought I might die.

I had an injury to my lower back when I was younger. At some point I had two annular tears, per my MRI, but they have healed. Not sure when those happened, but that would have been a prior injury.

Very possible - and although I appreciate that it likely wasn't what you wanted to hear at the time and it might have been dismissing, that's a great result in terms of indicating TMS.



Very good - and I love that you're fighting back with logic! This is brilliant healing in action, I did this a lot too and it's great that you're not giving into these fears (which are understandable but don't stand up when tested with logic and evidence). Your brain is simply very conservative for the sake of survival (which is a necessary aspect of our primitive brain) - it struggles to let go of the pain sometimes as it is protectionary in nature, it just needs some extra convincing



Exactly - that's a brilliant response. It's highly unlikely that stiffness and tightness are creating this level of symptom - as you alluded to, you know this and you know what basic stiffness and tightness feel like.



Exactly it becomes a band-aid - stretch it out and the emotional factors tighten it right back up again. It's like you're trying to get water out of a canoe with a hole in it.

It is listed in the TMS guide as being potentially TMS (and then you'd turn to the FIT criteria to rule it in) - I think there's a longstanding acceptance even in the medical model that stress causes muscle tension - so I think that might be why I can't find a specific section discussing it (I just had a quick look through the books I have) but if I do then I'll let you know and I've definitely read about it and been taught it at length in TMS world - https://www.apa.org/topics/stress/body



Perfect! Sounds good

Thanks!

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

For my lower back, it started when I was pregnant and then got worse a few years later when I had severe pneumonia. The emotional stress around pregnancy and such a big life change probably started the lower back stuff. The pneumonia was incredibly scary, I was hospitalized, stuck in bed for months, thought I might die.

I had an injury to my lower back when I was younger. At some point I had two annular tears, per my MRI, but they have healed. Not sure when those happened, but that would have been a prior injury.

Makes sense for the brain to target a prior injury source and lower back pain also makes sense with pregnancy (not necessarily that it was structural, but the brain will often send TMS pain to places that make sense structurally), so the emotional trigger resulting in pain there isn't a surprise to me.

You're welcome!