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Have you really accepted or are you in denial?

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by North Star, Dec 11, 2013.

  1. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    I would be interested in hearing musings on this question. I feel like I'm one of those people who say, "Huh? Who me? Angry?!"

    I told myself that I've learned to accept some difficult circumstances I've been in for the past few several years - okay-much of my adult life...parenting/life/financial. bangheada But then I find myself with spikes of anger popping up with a few predictable - and relatively benign- triggers. (Like visiting with a good friend who seems to have a lived a charmed existence. And yes, I know we have our crosses to bear but truth be told...she's pretty clueless about say - when it comes to the load hubby and I have carried raising a special need's child. When she showed me the photos of the upscale resort they'll be enjoying shortly I wanted to strangle her. Especially given our financial situation....not sure how some of our bills are going to get paid...much less cover a very modest Christmas for the kids.)

    I strive to be a glass half full sort of gal but I really wondering if in my heart of hearts...I've just got some serious denial. Especially given the on-going persistence of some of my TMS symptoms.

    And to be honest, I'm eager to move through this crap! I know it's a journey but geesh....:depressed:.

    I'd love to hear your thoughts...and thanks for listening. And thanks again, Forest, for the fun emoticons. I need one for denial...you know, fingers in the ears with the face singing, "la, la, la, I can't HEAR you!" :singing:
    Forest likes this.
  2. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi, North Star.
    Your friend probably has not led a charmed life or if she has, it isn't over yet.
    Not that we wish her anything bad.

    You've handled a lot in your life and deserve to be angry.
    Anger just needs to be softened. I get angry, may scream, and then I laugh.
    The anger goes away.

    Christmas is a hard time of year for many people,
    especially if they don't have money to buy gifts to make their children happy.

    I've written a book about famous people and their most memorable Christmas.
    They often tell of a Christmas when they had no money or just didn't have any
    Christmas spirit.

    One was the comedian, Dom DeLuise. This is what he remembered about a Christmas:

    In case this post crashes, which it does sometimes, I'll post it and put the DeLuise story
    in the next one.
  3. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Christmas with Dom DeLuise (1933-2009), entertainer, author

    Don DeLuise, born in Brooklyn, New York in 1933, he became a movie and television comedian and author of popular cookbooks. In 1992 he recalled his most memorable Christmas:

    “Christmas is at best a busy time for everyone, and even though we try to remember to keep the Christ in Christmas, very often we are overwhelmed with Santa Claus’s tinsel and Aunt Sophie’s scarf.

    “One Christmas about fifteen years ago, I was over-Christmased; rushing, shopping, and wrapping when I should’ve been snoozing, napping, and counting my blessings. In an unguarded moment, Michael, my seven-year-old son, came up to me and asked, ‘What do you want for Christmas?’

    “Thoughtlessly and rashly I responded to my impressionable child, ‘Happiness, and you can’t give it to me!’

    “My wife Carol looked to the ceiling and said, ‘Oh, Dom.’

    “Three hurried days later it was Christmas morning, and

    I found myself opening a very light present wrapped ‘oh so carefully’ by Michael, who handed it to me with a big smile.

    “I opened the box, and inside I discovered a piece of cardboard upon which Michael had written with a bright red crayon the word Happiness in big, bold letters.

    “Michael said, ‘See, Dad, I can give you happiness.’“Ever since that Christmas, Santa Claus’s tinsel and Aunt Sophie’s scarf have never gotten in the way of my seeing the Christ in Christmas.”


    The above quote is taken from my book, Christmas With the Famous. You can read more about the book in my thread about the three books I just published.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2013
  4. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    Special smiley delivery on it's way.... fingersinears and armscrosseddenial
  5. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    ROFL, Forest! That is just super! Thank you very much. I feel favored. :happy:

    As usual, Walt, I appreciate your thoughtful and wise response. (I was hoping you'd reply.) I love the store of Dom; thank you for sharing that. I get to thinking the Christmas stuff doesn't pressure me but alas...it sneaks in. I do very little media and am not a shopper so I don't get a huge onslaught of external pressure.

    Perhaps what I need to do when I feel the anger rising up is to simply remind myself that I've already chosen to ditch this. And then ditch it again. (The Power of Now audio book talks about dropping stuff like a hot piece of coal.)

    That's where I struggle with if I've truly gotten worked through some of the anger since the TMS are so doggone persistent. I'm a git 'er done kind of gal and....oh heck...maybe it's time to just turn on a funny movie.

    And re: my friend...no, there's no way I would wish trials upon her. But I do realize it it's time for another look at this relationship. I realize relationships grown and change and I suspect it's time for a shift in this friendship or an invitation to deeper discussion/relationship. (There's more dynamics going on but I'll spare the details.) Her response may be: fingersinears But then again...maybe it won't.
    quert and Eric "Herbie" Watson like this.
  6. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    I didn't know in the past that I was angry at all North Star -- That was the problem though, Not being able to sense your anger is one of the signs that your anger is on repression default. We don't feel it so it must be going somewhere, Hum. Now you said you got mad at a friend that didn't take into consideration what you've been through with all your situations when she showed you that picture, YAY. See now your feeling your anger, that's a positive side when folks start feeling their anger. It means you made a break through.

    Although I can totally understand all you are going through, I have some family that just looks at me like I've never experienced any hardship in my life because im always talking about hope and healing. They think if im in the mood to talk hope then theirs no way that I could have been in the pain and agony that they've been through.
    I don't mope all day --;) I must be in A perfect condition.

    I like that though, if I've acted in such a way that no one can tell that I've lived through a lot of hell. Well I must be spot on with my thoughts leading me in my best direction yet.

    Im in a position now to see my dreams and hopes come to pass, Its only because I started thinking in that direction a long time ago. See in 2000-2006 I was a preacher and living life on hope. I could barley make my bills and lost everything id had accumulated up to that time, and I lost my Mom in those years but I knew if I hung in there and kept believing for bigger and better things then one day it would happen. Ya know financial freedom and so forth. Well it did happen in 2007 I couldn't have asked for a better year in my life because it was like the doors of heaven were opened and all my financial troubles were over.

    I planed to retire by 45- ( which is still doable) and just live to help people learn how to excel the rest of there lives. Well as the saying goes when you got a kind heart you better watch it because you will be took advantage off and I was. I lost all of my money and all of my hope went down the drain.

    It was maybe two months later that I developed this pain all over my body that we know now as TMS. I knew in my heart if I did what I wanted to those people that robbed me then id be in prison. So I got really depressed and the more depressed I got the more my health went to nothing, I couldn't get out of bed to enjoy my grand children north star. At 39 I figured life was over- it had all been a lie and I was no good for anything.

    Then I saw a Dr. Named Sarno talking about how I could heal my body with my mind. Now he was talking hope. I had a chance again and that spark lit in my heart. Since then I know you've read my testimonies. I have to keep my mind on the healthy thoughts of life, like Abraham Low advices in his books. He talks about how our thoughts can make us sick as much as Dr. Sarno talks about our thoughts make us have pain. It all coincided with the lords teachings to me.

    So today My Friend North Star I know your a light setting on top of that hill. I know your blessed in the city and in the country. I know your blessed with anything you set your mind to do. The thing is you have got to know that too and its as simple as believing it as true and focusing your thoughts on those truths. It takes time to recondition no doubt and Im sure you live in the now and have all of your plans together. Just never give in-- Keep on looking at what it is you want in life and work your self in that direction.

    I believe you can do anything you set your mind too, I know you can . We just have to really know that the best gifts in life are free. Peace is free, Its an emotion that you can bring into the now. Joy is free, Look at your loved ones and feel that smile. We have so much to have happiness about I wouldn't trade it for the world.

    bless you
    Lily Rose and North Star like this.
  7. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    Nor' Star, it's a type of denial. As the Jungian analysts often state, "superego can be very controlling." What your outer-self says, or does, is not always you, or your true feelings. So when we say we forgive someone, or are that we are not angry, this could be simply your superego saying what it thinks others want to hear. The proof is in the physiologic response, iow, if you say you are not angry and yet your body tenses or seethes, then it's not true, you are indeed angry. If you say you forgive someone, and yet when you think about that person you begin to rant on how they did this or that, etc., then you haven't forgiven them. You say you've forgiven because intellectually and morally it's the thing to do. But you haven't truly let go of that attachment yet.

    It's like projection. The question has been asked if everything we say is projection, and the answer is the same, only if it evokes a physiologic response. If it doesn't induce a physical response then it's most likely only an observation of truth.

    If you remember, I wrote that I no longer think of the glass as half full, or half empty. I'm just thankful that I have water. The difference is not in perception but in true appreciation, and joy.

    So, if you have TMS then you have conflict remaining. And that conflict comes from not realizing your true self, not becoming what you want to become, not living according to your true self--but living for others.

  8. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Right on Steve.
    I think I'm still living for my better nature. I've forgiven everyone in my past but just can't seem to forgive one of them.
    He betrayed my friendship after I knocked myself out to help him. The phony then actually became a U.S. Congressman
    and that made me really mad, the unfairness of it. I tell myself there are lots of phonies in politics, and try to think of them
    as being sickos. I tell myself I've forgiven the s.o.b., but I doubt I really have.
    Any suggestions? How do we really know when we've forgiven someone?
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2013
    North Star likes this.
  9. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    I'm blown away at the wisdom and empathy here. Herbie, once again you made me teary with your kindness and compassion. And boy can I relate. I'm a classic "goodist". Before marriage, I spent many years in full time volunteer work in ministry. I just honestly don't know what else to say, Herbie. My heart is brimming over...I'm going to read and reread your thoughts.

    Steve, thank you for your sage, laser focused words. You helped me see with more clarity how TMS works. Yes, when chatting with this friend, I could feel my heart start pounding. (I am learning to listen to my physical body more - that's been a new world of discovery!) But of course, my superego smiled and acknowledged how lovely her trip will be. Truth be told: I was pissed. Really pissed. (Btw- I started re-reading your "pamphlet" this morning. ;) )

    To use a phrase I've heard before (and please forgive the language), I've been a TACL....that's "tight assed church lady". I spent so many years being a good performer (music and kid's ministry) and making sure my responses were careful and acceptable. After all, those in leadership have higher standards of performance! *gag*

    I still feel like my mind is sorting this stuff out but I have yet to really have ownership of it. (Hello? Not living according to my true self.) Wow...what a terrifying...and thrilling process.

    Walt, I could just hug you. I so appreciate your transparency I'll wait right along with you for suggestions on forgiving those hard to forgive people. I've got one of them in my life too. Maybe a few if my TMS is a gauge.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  10. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    North Star, I will consider myself hugged. Here's one for you.

    I think it may be easier to forgive the dead, like our deceased parents.
    It may be harder to forgive people who have shat on us and who are still living,
    going on to shat on other people. Some people seem to have been born without
    a conscience. I'd get political about that but better not.

    I have to keep it all in balance. The Lord sent some wonderful people to me
    throughout my life. I think His nemesis and ours, the Devil, sent a few too.
    One of them was that s.o.b. I'm having trouble forgiving.

    Friendships and relationships do change, for one reason or another, and often
    for reasons beyond our knowledge or control. I miss a few who have drifted away,
    mostly because of differences in politics or religion, and I've learned the hard way
    not to discuss either of those with anyone.

    So, on balance, I've been blessed with fantastic friends all my life,
    and if a few came along, even the one s.o.b. I can't seem to forgive,
    I should figure it's his loss, not mine. His wife divorced him and took their kids,
    so he got part of what was coming to him.

    I thank God every day for the wonderful friends in my life. The dogs, too,
    it goes without saying.

    And now I have a lot of new friends, thanks to TMSWiki.org. Like you.

    So some good can come out of pain. We know that.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  11. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Right one, Walt! I was counting my blessings this afternoon after re-reading this thread more than once.

    Finding true friends that you're safe with is one of the greatest gifts one can ever receive. I have some dear ones whom I've not seen in a long time but I know when we see each other again, we'll pick up right where we left off. What a treasure.

    And yeah...the s.o.b's out there. I just don't get it. There's a term "almost psychopath" that I've read about and I think I've concluded that some folks, too many actually, just fall under that category. They seem oblivious to the pain their behavior inflicts on others. Or if they are aware they're too narcissistic to give a rat's hinny about it.

    Here's to friends! beerbuds
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  12. bold_as_love

    bold_as_love New Member

    Very new at this and I can say that my awareness of what is going on has improved remarkably since getting Dr. Sarno's book and reading this forum. And just this morning, I logged into my F'Book account that I never check, but received an email that someone wrote on my wall. Nothing earth-shattering, but I logged on already kinda' irritated because quite frankly, I'm sick of F'Book. And then I see the ex. of my best friend's numerous pics of the guy she's seeing (and we suspect had an affair with) and all the places they've been travelling. Grew up with her and was one of my best friends also, but she decided a few years ago my buddy just "wasn't making enough money," and she changed immensely. She also has a sibling and other friends who married wealthy and don't have to work, let alone operate under a budget. Now, she's found the money guy and relishes in it. And OF COURSE, the tension in my neck started, the tinnitus picked up, and I had to really look at that anger closely. I shouldn't care one bit about how she's moved on because I'm sure she doesn't care about my life one iota, but I think it's similar to your situation. And the hard thing for me is to: a) accept the anger as related to TMS -and- b) let the anger flow, because I'm one who doesn't think negative emotions should ever be there, but understand it's the fabric of your experience. So, I still hide from them. But, each day is a progression forward and I can be happy for the little victories.

    Question for the others: how do you let the anger surface and deal with it? I don't necessarily struggle finding it, I just struggle with "what to do with it." Does it need to be expressed, in a healthy manner? I thought about buying a heavy bag to punch the Hell outta' it a few times a day. That's my big hurdle - what to do with the anger?!

    Thanks all and good luck on the journey North Star.
    North Star likes this.
  13. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    bold_as_love You did a good job getting that thought line out. Im glad you did cause now we can discuss your question about it. Questions when you get them out can help lead you in a wonderful way, its connection of the minds -- a joining of wisdom with friendship. The best of relationships id say. I love my friends here at the wiki, The best in the world- Would never change my friends for anything.

    Ok, now to your question my friend. ( anger "what to do with it." )

    Its something we all need to know what to do with. I remember when I first started tms healing I thought that I was supposed to blast everyone if they made me angry right, I wasn't repressing it that way ya know. The problem with that route was that id usually have more trouble to come back with this method of anger release and I really didn't feel much better afterwards cause I still felt hurt -- if not more so.

    Then I learned focusing, I could think of the event and let the emotions rise up inside me ya know. Then Id just notice they were there and not judge them or get mad at them ( my emotions). This way after I relaxed and thought of the memory , I would feel the emotion and just notice it there in my body and where it was, how it felt and all. After this as I would stay in a non- judgmental mode id usually feel a release, like the tension had lifted. Id journal it out and that would be the end of that repression.

    I know most of our pain comes from not facing our situations and not just noticing them without judgment- noticing the feeling that the thought brings and then just accepting that im in control of my emotions with this focusing. Its like im facing the memory and then letting it float through me in a way sort of like Claire Weekes style but im using a combination of her style and Sarnos journaling and Eugene Gendlins focusing.

    I know this seems like a lot but it helped me tons. So id look up some Eugene Gendlins focusing tips here at the Tmswiki site and learn Clare Weekes Facing Floating Accepting and time rule then you should have it in the bag.

    If you have any questions im here. This is a good route to take.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013
  14. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Those "near psychos" are sickos. Instead of hating them, I'm praying for them.
  15. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    Anger is a natural by-product of conflict. The ego is at the center but we can never rid ourselves of ego. But we can diminish its authority over us by seeing that the other person is us, we are the other person, separated only by experience, and ego.

    So there will be anger. But what to do about it? I wrote a whole chapter on it and 3 major ways to deal with it.

    There's contention on whether you need to do "release work" to discharge it. The most noted individual is John Lee, anger-specialist, who wrote Facing the Fire, and Flying Boy. He does anger workshops and lectures on it. He contends that you have to release it, through release work: discharging by pulling it to awareness, thereby dissolving it.

    However--there is the other argument (which of course there's always a yin to a yang) that you don't always have to discharge it. I think Dr. Sarno's work shows that you don't always have to release it, and Hanh's work also explains how transforming it is the best route.

    If you try to punch pillows and scream, that becomes a conditioned response now, and potentially dangerous. Just because you've tired yourself out from yelling doesn't mean you forgave that person, and you've now conditioned yourself to become angry in the same situation, or within the same memory capsule.

    Anger is a poison of the heart, and why Type A's have the heart problems. You don't drink more poison as an antidote to poisoning.

    It's a complex topic because you can't teach someone else how to forgive, or to let go. Letting go simply means that you don't attach yourself to that emotion. But--with ego in play--it's almost impossible to let go. So the work continues to evolve and transform, and to move beyond the watchful eye of self-consciousness because the very nature of the Self means that you are separate, and the word ego means "me."

    So the reconciliation of life is between me or thee isn't it?

    It is THE journey of life, from "me, " to the first identification of the others (outside observers), all the way back to "us."

    Steve (me)
  16. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Such a rich discussion here. Bold as love - Thanks so much for chiming in and your thoughtful question. My .02 worth...I think sometimes we need to still the ole monkey mind and ask the wisdom that is present deep within what to do on a case by case basis. Like Steve points out, there are a few different approaches and both have valid points.

    There's no effective 1-2-3 methodology (contrary to the huge self help section of Amazon). Yes, we can benefit from learning from one another but it always comes down to what works for you. And I think that can only be found in mindful awareness. And that takes time. Or so I think anyway. (Remember- I'm the one who wanted to rip off my friend's face the other day. ;) ) We're all a work in progress.

    And yes, this does come back to "Us". We are all one.

    PS On a good note. I ran into another person whom I've avoided running into. (A long story I won't bore you with. Let's just say that there's some folks, if I see them in the grocery store, I've gotten really good at picking lint off my shirt...fingersinears "I can't SEE you!") Anyway. I ran into her and felt FREE. No heart pounding. No internal "oh shoot, it's you." And I didn't even do my I don't see you maneuver.

    It was a wonderful feeling.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  17. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    It's not easy to accept those who give us pain. You're on a new path. A beautiful one of acceptance.
    North Star likes this.

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