This is my second post. I've been studying TMS two weeks now. I started reading Herbie/Walt's book and just got Dr. Brady's in the mail today. In a crazy way, it makes sense! I'm 60 years old and never heard of this before. Will start journaling on Monday when I get home. Two questions: I decided to name my unconsious, came upon the name of Sid (from the movie Toy Story, hope there are no Sid's out there). I figure if I am going to be talking to someone, I may as well name him. So my question is: I'm reading about emotional rage inside all of us, so is the unconsious evil? I ask because as a Christian, I know I have two natures: the old nature and the new nature. The old nature is our sin-nature. So is that what the unconsious is? I'm guessing not, but I'm confused.
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? for you Christians out there
- Thread starter Bill S.
- Start date
I perceive sin nature as much like a newborn that has not been socialized. Any newborn is going to be self driven (I want food, I want a dry diaper, etc). Socialization over time teaches the newborn to empathize with others and recognize others have independent selves and those selves have needs and desires of their own. But, sin nature is more like that immediate newborn before socialization.
I don't think the unconscious can be evil in a saved Christian because when you're saved, it's taught that the Holy Spirit takes up residence inside of you to help you in your efforts to learn and apply the teachings of the Bible. This is part of the 'new nature' that you wrote about. As your learning and faith grow, you become set apart from the world by how you act on your faith. (e.g. the Bible teaches to only show Christ's love to non-believers. The Bible also teaches to hold fellow Christians accountable to the instructions provided by the Bible. In today's world those two are routinely reversed!)
So, can the unconscious of the non-believer evil? I say no because the unconscious is really like a muscle (only made up of neurons instead of muscle fibers) and it only does what it has been developed to do. If you're a musician, it will do stuff in a musical way. If you're a cyclist, it will do stuff in a cyclist way. If you've lived a fearful life, it will work to protect you how ever it thinks is best. Google neuroplasticity. The goal of TMS seems to be to recognize, then change those built in patterns by catching them, rejecting them as no longer valid, and replacing them with new patterns. The unconscious is no more 'good' or 'evil' than your thigh muscle. It is simply useful or not useful in its current condition and that condition can be changed (neruoplasticity).
I don't think the unconscious can be evil in a saved Christian because when you're saved, it's taught that the Holy Spirit takes up residence inside of you to help you in your efforts to learn and apply the teachings of the Bible. This is part of the 'new nature' that you wrote about. As your learning and faith grow, you become set apart from the world by how you act on your faith. (e.g. the Bible teaches to only show Christ's love to non-believers. The Bible also teaches to hold fellow Christians accountable to the instructions provided by the Bible. In today's world those two are routinely reversed!)
So, can the unconscious of the non-believer evil? I say no because the unconscious is really like a muscle (only made up of neurons instead of muscle fibers) and it only does what it has been developed to do. If you're a musician, it will do stuff in a musical way. If you're a cyclist, it will do stuff in a cyclist way. If you've lived a fearful life, it will work to protect you how ever it thinks is best. Google neuroplasticity. The goal of TMS seems to be to recognize, then change those built in patterns by catching them, rejecting them as no longer valid, and replacing them with new patterns. The unconscious is no more 'good' or 'evil' than your thigh muscle. It is simply useful or not useful in its current condition and that condition can be changed (neruoplasticity).
Boston Redsox
Well Known Member
Rule#1 don't give it a name by doing this you give it a identity and more power drop the name and don't give the pain a second thought.
Dahlia
Well known member
In my opinion: The unconscious is not evil. It is always trying to protect you. The methods it uses to protect you may be inappropriate, ineffective, out of date, or just not helpful. This can be because the unconscious is working off an outdated model of how to protect you. The model can be updated and the the unconscious will work differently to protect you.
Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)
Beloved Grand Eagle
I consider my unconscious mind a friend, not an enemy. It gave me TMS back pain two years ago so I learned about TMS and Dr. Sarno's books.
If it hadn't been for the pain I doubt I ever would have gone through the TMS healing process that has made me such a healthier, happier person.
My unconscious mind is protecting me, for sure.
If it hadn't been for the pain I doubt I ever would have gone through the TMS healing process that has made me such a healthier, happier person.
My unconscious mind is protecting me, for sure.
Ann s is
Peer Supporter
I do not think that the unconscious or subconscious mind is evil. I do think there are a lot of bad beliefs down in there that it would be to our advantage to change.
I have given a lot of thought to what the unconscious (or subconscious) mind is and as a Christian (who really likes psychology), I wonder if everywhere in the Bible that refers to "the heart," that is what the unconscious/subconsious mind is. This is where your beliefs are, deep down. Psychology says that 90% of what we do is actually in response to the beliefs in our subconscious minds although we generally come up with some kind of plausible conscious explanation for what we do, rather than say "I do that because that is how I have been programmed."
I have heard ministers say, "Keep thinking it (the Word) until it drops 18 inches down into your heart." Wouldn't it make more sense that it is a thinking organ, not a blood pumping one that we change with our thoughts?
We can reprogram our subconscious (heart) by our conscious thoughts. Hypnosis seems to bear this out. The Bible says, "As a man thinks, so does he become." We can start thinking what the Word says (the truth of the Word) and the more we think it, the more it becomes our belief, rather than what we may believe now because of our carnal nature and programming.
As an example: a few nights ago I started to get really upset because it looked like my heat pump was failing. I thought: It is not fair that this happened on a weekend when I can find no one to fix it. Poor me. I don't have someone to help me.
Then I started saying what the Bible says, what is TRUE: "My God shall provide all my needs..." "God never leaves me nor forsakes me," "I am an overcomer," "I am a victor, not a victim" and other helpful verses. I have help, I have provision, I am never alone, I am not a vcitm. My carnal mind wanted me to feel sorry for myself that I had a problem and no help and was all alone. This is what first came out of my mouth so it is what I believe in my subconscious mind. Gotta work on that!
Anyway, I started saying what the Bible says and stopped feeling upset. I really felt peaceful because thoughts (conscous or unconscious) precede feelings. Negative thoughts produce negative emotions, positive thoughts produce postive emotions.
Also I have considered that maybe TMS symptoms are worse at night because that is when the content of our subconscious mind is made conscious (while asleep) via DREAMS. We can remember our dreams when we awake and see what we are really thining and feeling unconsciously Dreams show us the content of our un/subconscious mind, what we really think and how we really feel.
I have wondered if when we have a dream that threatens to reveal our TMS rage to us, that is when our pain symptoms interrupt our sleep, to keep us from knowing what our dreams may be trying to tell us.
When saved, according to Scripture, we get the mind of Christ in addition to the carnal mind we were born with. Thus, we have two minds. We are supposed to get our carnal minds renewed to the mind of Christ by taking every conscious thought captive to His obedience. We have a choice of what to think. We can let any old negative or carnal thought fall in there and flourish, or we can be proactive and positive and think the Truth of the Word and get our mind renewed to it until it becomes our first thought, our belief. It is much better to be renewing it to the Word, thinking positive and thinking Truth.
So I do not think the subconscious or unconscious is evil. It may remain un-changed unless we are in the process of changing it, whether we are Christians and changing it to agree with the Bible, or anybody thinking any positive and enhancing thoughts. You do not have to be a Christian to get your mind renewed. Psychology can do that, reading books about ways to change your thinking in order to have better relationships or make better choices, etc. There are groups and therapists to help with that also. But, you can do it yourself (love pop psychology!)
Even the TMS books are all about changing how you think about your pain and about the cause of your pain. After a while, you start to BELIEVE it, if you keep reading it and thinking it, and then, and when you believe it, maybe then that is when you are healed. Then you are operating out of your belief that your pain is TMS and your pain will not stay because you no longer believe it is physical and destined to be permanent.
It helped me to write and think this out. Maybe it will help someone else.
I have given a lot of thought to what the unconscious (or subconscious) mind is and as a Christian (who really likes psychology), I wonder if everywhere in the Bible that refers to "the heart," that is what the unconscious/subconsious mind is. This is where your beliefs are, deep down. Psychology says that 90% of what we do is actually in response to the beliefs in our subconscious minds although we generally come up with some kind of plausible conscious explanation for what we do, rather than say "I do that because that is how I have been programmed."
I have heard ministers say, "Keep thinking it (the Word) until it drops 18 inches down into your heart." Wouldn't it make more sense that it is a thinking organ, not a blood pumping one that we change with our thoughts?
We can reprogram our subconscious (heart) by our conscious thoughts. Hypnosis seems to bear this out. The Bible says, "As a man thinks, so does he become." We can start thinking what the Word says (the truth of the Word) and the more we think it, the more it becomes our belief, rather than what we may believe now because of our carnal nature and programming.
As an example: a few nights ago I started to get really upset because it looked like my heat pump was failing. I thought: It is not fair that this happened on a weekend when I can find no one to fix it. Poor me. I don't have someone to help me.
Then I started saying what the Bible says, what is TRUE: "My God shall provide all my needs..." "God never leaves me nor forsakes me," "I am an overcomer," "I am a victor, not a victim" and other helpful verses. I have help, I have provision, I am never alone, I am not a vcitm. My carnal mind wanted me to feel sorry for myself that I had a problem and no help and was all alone. This is what first came out of my mouth so it is what I believe in my subconscious mind. Gotta work on that!
Anyway, I started saying what the Bible says and stopped feeling upset. I really felt peaceful because thoughts (conscous or unconscious) precede feelings. Negative thoughts produce negative emotions, positive thoughts produce postive emotions.
Also I have considered that maybe TMS symptoms are worse at night because that is when the content of our subconscious mind is made conscious (while asleep) via DREAMS. We can remember our dreams when we awake and see what we are really thining and feeling unconsciously Dreams show us the content of our un/subconscious mind, what we really think and how we really feel.
I have wondered if when we have a dream that threatens to reveal our TMS rage to us, that is when our pain symptoms interrupt our sleep, to keep us from knowing what our dreams may be trying to tell us.
When saved, according to Scripture, we get the mind of Christ in addition to the carnal mind we were born with. Thus, we have two minds. We are supposed to get our carnal minds renewed to the mind of Christ by taking every conscious thought captive to His obedience. We have a choice of what to think. We can let any old negative or carnal thought fall in there and flourish, or we can be proactive and positive and think the Truth of the Word and get our mind renewed to it until it becomes our first thought, our belief. It is much better to be renewing it to the Word, thinking positive and thinking Truth.
So I do not think the subconscious or unconscious is evil. It may remain un-changed unless we are in the process of changing it, whether we are Christians and changing it to agree with the Bible, or anybody thinking any positive and enhancing thoughts. You do not have to be a Christian to get your mind renewed. Psychology can do that, reading books about ways to change your thinking in order to have better relationships or make better choices, etc. There are groups and therapists to help with that also. But, you can do it yourself (love pop psychology!)
Even the TMS books are all about changing how you think about your pain and about the cause of your pain. After a while, you start to BELIEVE it, if you keep reading it and thinking it, and then, and when you believe it, maybe then that is when you are healed. Then you are operating out of your belief that your pain is TMS and your pain will not stay because you no longer believe it is physical and destined to be permanent.
It helped me to write and think this out. Maybe it will help someone else.
North Star
Beloved Grand Eagle
Bill, There is a Franciscan priest by the name of Richard Rohr who has really helped me undo the damage wrought by years of evangelical thinking about the "sin" side. The dualistic thinking it develops as a result of this the-soul-is-sinful fertilizes the soul to be ripe for TMS, IMHO. (Take for example the verse about "casting down imaginations that exalt itself against God" or "Put on the mind of Christ"…. these verses are taught in such a way to be at war within oneself. Gah. The tennis games I've played in my head wondering if my thoughts were from God or my sinful nature.)
Instead, Rohr frames the "sinful nature" as the SHADOW. I love that. It's the weaker, un-enlightened part of my being. Freud would call it the Id - that spoiled child within seeking it's own way…but always looking for care.
Learning to cultivate my weaknesses with love and compassion have brought more peace than any repenting has ever done. You know - the love your neighbor as yourself stuff.
So yeah…I agree with what others have said. You un/sub conscience is all part of YOU…not evil.. it's all a work in process on a loving journey.
Instead, Rohr frames the "sinful nature" as the SHADOW. I love that. It's the weaker, un-enlightened part of my being. Freud would call it the Id - that spoiled child within seeking it's own way…but always looking for care.
Learning to cultivate my weaknesses with love and compassion have brought more peace than any repenting has ever done. You know - the love your neighbor as yourself stuff.
So yeah…I agree with what others have said. You un/sub conscience is all part of YOU…not evil.. it's all a work in process on a loving journey.
Boston Redsox
Well Known Member
I am sorry guys ….but you are digging way to much into this, stick to the basics and your healing will begin .
God Bless
God Bless
Dahlia
Well known member
Yes, I am a Richard fan as well. His teaching is a daily inspiration and blessing to me.
Ann s is
Peer Supporter
The question was whether the unconscious mind is evil; I don't think there is a glib answer to that. Also, I don't know about anybody else, but having TMS is not a walk in the park for me. I have had it for years, and I have been healed almost spontantously upson reading my first Sarno book, but it keeps recurring; I'm diggin in here.
Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)
Beloved Grand Eagle
I think TMS symptoms come back or new ones start because we have to cope with life every day
and it can wham us more days than others.
When I get whammed with anxiety or pain, I go back to the basics:
Dr. Sarno's 12 step daily reminders,
and always deep breathing and pushing away negative thoughts by living in the present.
Thanks, Dalilah, I'll do a google search for Rev. Richard Rohr.
I watch Cardinal Fulton S. Sheen on Youtube and have one of his great books...
In the Fullness of Time. I am old enough to have watched his TV show years ago.
Now it can be told... I was the angel who used the eraser to clear his chalk board.
and it can wham us more days than others.
When I get whammed with anxiety or pain, I go back to the basics:
Dr. Sarno's 12 step daily reminders,
and always deep breathing and pushing away negative thoughts by living in the present.
Thanks, Dalilah, I'll do a google search for Rev. Richard Rohr.
I watch Cardinal Fulton S. Sheen on Youtube and have one of his great books...
In the Fullness of Time. I am old enough to have watched his TV show years ago.
Now it can be told... I was the angel who used the eraser to clear his chalk board.
Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)
Beloved Grand Eagle
Love and compassion for ourselves... and others. The Jesus, Buddha, Moses way to live. Dogs know it, too!