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fear free but not pain free...

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Emre, Nov 6, 2014.

  1. Emre

    Emre Peer Supporter

    Hi to all, its been a long time since i havent visit the forum. actually ı did it on purpose. ı didnt want to be obsessed with looking for too many answers and i didnt want to give myself the message that i still didnt "get it"

    ı am totally fear free since ı have read Dr. Sarno's healing back pain. i resumed all physical activity. he gave me my freedom back and will be always grateful for this!

    My question is:
    Why is it that even though ı 100% accepted my diagnosis, think psychological at all times, resume all physical activities, ı still have symptoms?
    When i have financial worries is that my symptoms rise. When i am on holiday at sea in summer, they almost disappear.
    but how can it be that even though ı totally know that its a defense to protect me, ı still get pain? i feel like i know the "trick" of my subcouncious but how is it possible that i still get pain?
    Thank you all
    North Star and Tennis Tom like this.
  2. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    "Pity me that the heart is slow to learn
    What the swift mind beholds at every turn."

    Edna St. Vincent Millay, by way of Dr. Sarno
  3. Emre

    Emre Peer Supporter

    Yes i know that :) then my question is howcome some people's hearts are not slow to learn and they get rid off the pain in couple of days/weeks???
    North Star likes this.
  4. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    They don't ask any questions :cyclops:.
    North Star and Emre like this.
  5. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Haha. Asking questions does seem to mean a person has not yet fully accepted TMS as the cause of their symptom.
    Misery loves company, I guess.

    Part of knowing about TMS is the time spent in discovery ourselves and how we can live more happily and healthy with ourselves,
    and others. It can take time, but is well worth it.
    donavanf, North Star and Emre like this.
  6. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    I "got" the TMS message maybe 3 years ago, but my symptoms didn't and haven't gone away in a flash moment. Instead, they've been slowly going down first month by month, then week by week, now even day to day. Seems like a long process of "forgetting" rather than an instant cure. Last year when I walked downhill for a 1000 ft, I got cramps and pain in my left leg and butt for maybe 6 hours. This year when I walked downhill a similar distance, there was pain for a half hour and then it went away and I forgot it. Today I hike about twice as fast and feel a little twinge for 5 minutes when I get back and sit in the front seat of my car. Nothing a half hour later. That's great progress, but certainly not an instant "book" cure. For some of us, it just takes longer I guess! Seems like what's been happening is that I'm gradually "forgetting" to obsess about my TMS symptoms. That's more like a long, slow personality change I'd suggest. Some people (like me) must be more set in their ways than others, less open to change, more stubborn.
    gailnyc, Forest, North Star and 5 others like this.
  7. Emre

    Emre Peer Supporter

    As far as i remeber from hbp and i might be wrong, dr.sarno says there is no need to change personality and that is almost impossible anyway? Just realizing the 'defense' of the mind is enough to cure... So it is not?
    North Star likes this.
  8. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    I don't know if "forgetting" to obsess about symptoms requires a total personality remake. Maybe the tendency to become obsessive just runs out of steam over time? Dunno exactly. But I do notice that today I no longer wake up waiting for the first sting of sciatic pain to begin in my left leg like I used to do. Perhaps it's no longer serving the purpose of distracting me from unpleasant repressed emotions because I'm no longer using my energy to hold onto them? Maybe I've released and relieved them through various meditation techniques? Hard to say, but I'm not doing it anymore for some reason or other.
    Forest, North Star and Emre like this.
  9. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    In a nutshell Dr. Sarno's TMS thinking says, JUST DO IT! It allows and encourages one to take that first step without fearing that movement is doing damage. The medical/industrial complex has brainwashed us in thinking that we are fragile beings and can hurt ourselves lying in bed, sitting in a chair or in car seat, or lightly touching a computer keyboard. Dr. Sarno has challenged this dictum and been ostracized by his peers for doing so. It contradicts what they tell their patients: "Don't run, don't hit, DON'T!, DON'T!, DON'T!--or you'll be seeing me for surgery--stay in bed, do traction--now you've done it!--let's see when we can get you into surgery."

    Due to this NOCEBO conditioning, when we feel the TMS pain, we fear that we are causing damage. So we don't take that first step. If we would take that first step and a few more, our joints would start producing the synovial fluid that lubricates the joints and the pain and stiffness would disappear shortly--it's called getting warmed up. It's comparable to letting a car engine warm-up before hitting higher revolutions, the parts are still cold and the oil is thick and sludgy. After a few minutes, the engine and the rest of the drive train are warmed-up and are free to be revved to the red-line.

    Because of current medical dogma we are societally conditioned to fear that we are doing damage. We never take that first step, and the next few steps to get warmed-up--walking, running, swinging, standing up to and through the pain. This can take 5, 10 to 20 minutes depending on the demands of the activity. We've been noceboed into never taking that first step in fear of doing even more damage. Dr. Sarno preaches that the body is STRONG-- as the Nike commercial says, "JUST DO IT!".
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2014
  10. Emre

    Emre Peer Supporter

    Thank you all for your help! It helps me a lot:))

    So are these my mistakes and do these show that i still didnt 'get' it:

    1. I do stretching and sometimes some 'weird' moves because it relieves the symptoms for a while. I totally know that its not a cure at all but it feels good to relieve the symptoms that get on my nerves
    2. I take hot shower for the same reason of relieving the symptoms.
    3. I take pain killers when the symptoms rise a lot, so i take one every other week or so...
    4. When i am worried about finances, i always have more symptoms, and my lower back gets pain then
    5. When the weather is cold, my symptoms in upper back rise, am i conditioning myself and how can i break this one? I broke the one regarding sitting but not this one:(
    donavanf and North Star like this.
  11. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi, Emre. I love your smile.
    I think stretching and hot showers are fine and glad that they relieve some of your symptoms.
    Stretching tells your subconscious you are in control and it is not.
    Pain killers are okay when needed, as Dr. Sarno says, but keep focusing on the repressed emotions and personality traits.

    I think modifying the personality traits, if possible, is a big help. Just don't let perfectionism rule your life.
    I'm a perfectionist and goodist person and have been modifying both.
    My book publisher boss just loaded me down with another ton of work on the computer but I'm taking my time with it.
    I used to rush to get it done, but nothing satisfies him, so I work at my own pace now.

    I have money worries too and notice my back aches when I stress about it.
    I just figure I will somehow survive another month and then LAUGH about it.
    There has to be more to life than paying bills, and I try to find ways to enjoy my life despite the money pressures.
    I find that distracting my mind helps a lot. I play with my dog, watch a movie (preferably funny) and count my blessings.

    Cold and damp cold weather affects most everyone. I don't mind cold weather because I love wearing sweaters and
    keep the house temp moderate. Damp cold weather does get to my bones, but if I keep my head and neck and feet warm,
    I'm usually okay.

    You're doing fine. Keep it up.
    North Star, nowtimecoach and Emre like this.
  12. Emre

    Emre Peer Supporter

    Hey thank you Walt:)) i appreciate your long informative kind reply:))
  13. Robert_42

    Robert_42 New Member

    Hey Emre, Can I please ask how you broke your conditioned response to experience TMS when you sit? This is my main problem. I get TMS every time I sit it's crazy. I can experience extreme pain when sitting down in the library to study then feel absolutely fine while walking to the bathroom for a break! it's almost laughable how programmed it is! Any help would be really appreciated, thanks
  14. Emre

    Emre Peer Supporter

    Hi Robert
    When you asked that i thought about it and realized that, i just accepted that it was a conditioning. I didnt question if it was a conditioning or not, i 100% accepted it wholeheartedly! And now i realize this is my problem with the cold weather conditioning! Probably i dont accept 100% that its pure conditioning, and i still believe that cold weather somehow has a physical affect on our bodies-muscles!
    But i dont know how to break that conditioning:(

    So the tms gurus here, please help us to break these conditionings we have..
  15. nowtimecoach

    nowtimecoach Well known member

    Great thread going on here. I broke my conditioning by TRYING all the time to break my conditioning despite having pain. It was difficult at times to not be hooked by the pain - but I kept repeating to myself that the pain has nothing to do with the action I was taking and I forced myself to take the action. I think its one of the harder things to do with TMS recovery but essential. Every time I got into the car, I would have pain. So I would just repeat the behavior - literally telling my TMS that I'm going to keep doing the behavior until it went away. I would repeat getting in and out of the car 5 or 10 times. Sure, I looked like an idiot in my driveway but the exercise was important for me. Even if it hurt every time I just kept doing it. It was my way to telling my subconscious I was in control. I've been completely pain free for 2 months now and I found the TMS wiki, the programs, related books one year ago. So it took me a bit of time. Be patient and loving with yourself during this process. TMS hates that!:blackeye:;)
    Forest, Raynor91, North Star and 3 others like this.
  16. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    That's exactly why, nowtime, I'm going out in front of the house this morning, driving my old van up on ramps, getting underneath it on my back, and lubing the zerk fittings in the front suspension and drive shaft. I remember a couple of weeks ago someone giving me that admonition not to change my own shocks because that "would hurt my back". Classic well-intentioned nocebo! I did it anyway and wasn't any the worse for wear except being tired out afterwards from all the hard work. I think that's what "just do it" is all about: breaking barriers that reinforce the mental conditioning that perpetuates the programmed TMS pain symptoms locked into your central nervous system. If you're the kind of stubborn cuss who's created pain symptoms and holds onto them obsessively, you have to be the same kind of stubborn cuss who reverses and deprograms them by confronting them directly.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2014
    donavanf, Forest, North Star and 3 others like this.
  17. Emre

    Emre Peer Supporter

    If you're the kind of stubborn cuss who's created pain symptoms and holds onto them obsessively, you have to be the same kind of stubborn cuss who reverses and deprograms them by confronting them directly.

    Wooww!! Thanks BruceMC!!
    nowtimecoach likes this.
  18. Ryan

    Ryan Well known member


    This is a great post from one of the best, enjoy. Fear is at the core of the tms beasts.

    donavanf likes this.
  19. BruceMC

    BruceMC Beloved Grand Eagle

    Mission accomplished, Emre (and suspicions confirmed: the Shell Station didn't lube my front end and drive shaft when they changed the oil). Only drove up and over the wheel ramps once and survived to tell the tale. But . . . absolutely no TMS pain the whole time I was working under the van and now afterwards. It's that distraction theory in action: While you're concentrating on one thing, you can't obsess on your TMS symptoms at the same time. It's an either/or situation, which goes to show TMS does have something to do with the inner logic of the unconscious and/or the central nervous system. I've always thought there could be some application of system theory to such conditioned behaviors as TMS and other body-mind syndromes. But the science surrounding body-mind syndromes is in its infancy, isn't it? I'm sure it 50 years the neuroscientists will know a whole lot more.

    We know a whole lot more about Zerk fittings than the operations of the unconscious mind!

    Last edited: Nov 11, 2014
    donavanf likes this.
  20. ash86

    ash86 Peer Supporter

    It is great that you got rid of the fear of the pain, I think that's the worst part. What has really made my symptoms improve quickly since learning is not fearing the "bad" emotions. I could say I would rather deal with the emotions than the pain, but when I really reflected a part of me was still that little girl terrified of anger. And scared of what I would become/do if I accepted my anger. I started writing each day a time when I felt 1)angry 2)hurt/sad 3)scared 4)guilty 5)happy. The more I do that the more I recognize these emotions throughout the day.

    Remember that TMS/MBS is a syndrome cause by repressed emotions, the pain is only a small part of it (the distraction). :)
    Forest and BruceMC like this.

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