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Eating Anger - quoting from Steve's book

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Lily Rose, Feb 21, 2014.

  1. Lily Rose

    Lily Rose Beloved Grand Eagle

    Page 275, Steve quotes a Buddhist Monk: Thich Nhat Hanh -- His premise is that we ingest anger every day. We eat anger because that which we eat must be killed.

    Living in the country for a great deal of my life, I have made long eye contact with various animals. I cannot conceive of the light within these warm, curious eyes being extinguished, so that they can be served up on my plate. Animals have a social structure. They have curiosity. They live in the present.

    I had not considered, however, that the consumption might be considered a form of anger.

    It is easy to make the purchase of meat neatly wrapped and displayed in stores. It isn't real. Just another product, like picking out prime produce, seeking the unblemished lettuce, unbruised apples.

    What happens, though, when the process is considered? Is this likened to the unveiling of TMS/MBS itself? Awareness, acknowledgement? The media and big businesses tell us that meat is essential, that we will sicken without it. How parallel is this to the media and big businesses telling us that our illness is physical?

    We are conditioned.
    And this topic ... it carries a large factor of deniability.
    Like TMS.
    We need our pain to have a tangible, medical reason.
    We need the flesh of animals to complete our diet.

    Do we really?

    For what reason did Steve include this in his book? To provoke thought? To invite this parallel concept? To open the door to the question itself?

    What we do to ourselves, consciously and unconsciously, this matters.

    In various aspects of this book, there are a multitude of examples in deniability, of excuses. I especially noticed the one that carried the repetitive statement: But I'm not angry, Steve ...

    Denial. Unwillingness to delve too deeply. Reasons fed to us by those with strong motivations (money-induced). And just plain cravings.

    Is this wrong?
    I do not believe that things can summed up that neatly. Life is not about right and wrong ... rather, it is about the consequences of our actions, acknowledged or not.

    If defensiveness is the first response ... this would beg examination.

    I would like to offer my thanks and admiration to Steve for his very insightful and thought-provoking book.

    with grace and gratitude,
  2. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi, Lily Rose.
    I too have thought about the consequences to animals of eating meat.
    I love ducks and ate roast duck once in a great while but will never eat another.

    I also like turkey but never felt close to them.

    I eat almost no beef, but do like an occasional pork chop, yet I've read that pigs are very sweet,
    intelligent animals. So I am going to stop eating pork.

    But what about chickens? I like roast chicken and boiled chicken soup, and there are so many chickens.
    I guess I could at least just buy those that are raised humanely. But even then...

    I like fish but do they count as killing animals?

    I've been mainly eating fruits and veggies but like a little chicken or fish.

    I wonder what Steve will reply to that part of his book.
  3. Lily Rose

    Lily Rose Beloved Grand Eagle

    Unfortunately, chickens are the worst treated and most drugged with antibiotics and hormones, and often outright tortured. There are many many reports on this (google - chicken abuse). There are so many chickens because there is such a demand for them, and they can be raised in tiny cages.

    I purchase grass fed beef from a local rancher for my husband, and a friend is providing some sheep meat. I have completely stopped purchasing chicken. I began to question the premise that chicken is better for you than beef. At one time, that may have been true, but no longer. A well-raised beef is better for the health than a poorly raised chicken. Oddly, my husband had noticed the rubbery texture of chicken recently ... and this man is a serious meat eater.

    Fish is more of a grey area for me. It is not a mammal. Fish that is swimming upriver is already on its way to die, as part of its cycle.

    My choice not to consume meat is my choice alone ... I do not require my life-mate to make this choice, and certainly my dog requires meat.

    I do consider it related to TMS, however. To suppress the knowledge that we have killed, or endorsed a killing, to put a craving on our plate, this is much like the suppression of emotions.

    If everyone had to slaughter their own meat ... there might be a lot less meat being consumed.

    I do not judge the person who eats meat, far from it. I do endorse awareness of the choice being made.

    with grace and gratitude,
  4. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    I wish I knew what to do about chickens, eating them or not.
    I do love roast chicken.
    I wonder if eating chicken does cause me to have TMS anger.
    I have "bigger" and more human causes of anger, but maybe it just all adds up to pain.
  5. Lily Rose

    Lily Rose Beloved Grand Eagle

    There comes areas where we simply have to make compromises with ourselves. How many trees go down for our toilet paper? And the process of making the toilet paper is horrendously harmful to the environment. And paper towels. On the latter, I strive to minimize the usage, but sometimes it just must happen. Soon, I may switch to cloth napkins, and other alternatives. But toilet paper ... I am not ready to make that change into cloth wipes.

    You do what you can, you minimize where you can, and then make informed choices.

    If you want that roast chicken, offer thanks and gratitude for the life that lived and died.

    In so many ways, you have already diminished your 'footprint'. Be conscious of this, and don't over-abuse yourself with nailing down every single aspect in every single area. Small things matter.

    You are a wonderfully kind and caring man .... guilt should not be allowed any entry into your thoughts.

    with grace and gratitude,
  6. Huckleberry

    Huckleberry Well known member

    Interesting. I am not a vegetarian...in actual fact I'm a recovering paleo type lol but I agree with the point you make about how divorced we are from the actual origins of our food and meat in particular.

    What I find interesting in the UK is how heavily meat is now processed and that it actually is quite an effort to buy a typical cut of meat...most meat seems to be consumed in pies, nuggets, reformed cutlets etc etc, there is almost zero connection between the flesh and the animal it one came from. In actual fact that is a misnomer as I'd imagine a typical UK beef burger is probably formed from the meat of numerous animals that may even have been reared and slaughtered in various countries if not continents.

    The fact is people don't want to have the connection between themselves and the animal. The whole process of meat eating is filled with contradiction and hypocrisy. For example, in the UK people happily drink milk but refuse to eat veal yet the slaughter of young calves is a necessary activity in order for milk to be produced.

    Another interesting fact regarding both husbandry and slaughter is the level of stress animals must feel and store and how this stress must have a chemical effect on the structure of the meat we eat. An interesting thought indeed.
  7. Lily Rose

    Lily Rose Beloved Grand Eagle

    I have some confusion in this .... why must young calves be slaughtered to produce milk? Separation is necessary, but not slaughter. My friend raises goats for milk, but the babies stay with the momma's for a time, then they are weaned and she keeps up the milking process. The babies are then either kept or sold.

    I have never heard of the 'necessity' of slaughter for milk. However, after some googling, I see there are many views on this. Some farms may practice this, others do not. I am lucky enough to live in an area that has local dairy milk, so it is a non-issue in our area. It can become a matter of doing the research and knowing who you are making your purchase from.

    Not all farms are created equal.

    This is absolutely an issue. I only buy from a local rancher who uses a humane method of death (non-slaughter house). Each of the animals is raised with compassion, and given free-range conditions. Whatever the animal experiences is exactly what goes into the consumer. Even what the carcass goes through ends up inside the consumer. If that isn't enough to make the stomach clench in rebellion ......... mmm.

    Buying meat in bulk from such ranchers (my husband requires meat) is actually cheaper than buying individual wrapped/processed meat in the stores. You just need to have an extra freezer for it.

    I have long ceased to trust any processed foods. In the effort to live authentically, I believe the expense is offset by lack of health problems (excluding TMS, of course ... but that is curable and we are all working on that!).

    with grace and gratitude,
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  8. littleme

    littleme New Member

    It's so interesting how people see things through their own filters. The vegetarian vs. omnivore thing didn't even occur to me. I saw the eating as killing as a given and from there understood how eating as self-abuse could become a natural parallel in someone who had a lot of unexpressed anger.

    I've had a tortured relationship with food my whole life. I was bulimic in college and then gained weight steadily once I gave up the purging half of my binge/purge cycle. By my 40s, I was obese and despaired of ever getting my weight under control. It wasn't until I recognized that food was not just a means of soothing myself, but also a means of punishing myself, that I got a grip on my eating and managed to lose 75lbs. I had been slowly killing myself with the very thing that was giving me life.

    Lily Rose, it's not possible to supply milk on the scale modern people consume it without sacrificing the calves. Dairy breeds are not ideal for beef, so no one is interested in raising them to adulthood for slaughter. Some small scale dairy farmers will keep them on pasture for a while and then butcher them for "rose" veal (sort of the cow equivalent of lamb). That's kinder, of course, than keeping them in tiny pens and feeding them only milk for a few weeks before slaughtering them for milk-fed veal. But it's probably not very satisfying to someone who doesn't eat meat for ethical reasons. In a lot of ways, dairy products are like the boneless cuts of shrink-wrapped meats you get in the grocery store. There's a whole process that brings them to us which is easy to ignore.
  9. Lily Rose

    Lily Rose Beloved Grand Eagle

    Your accomplishment is wonderful, LittleMe. Changing food from an emotional comfort to the realm of being nutritional is a difficult step. In my late teens, I was bulimic. It was the only way I could get rid of what 'the man' forced me to eat. Then it became a habit. One I shed in my early 20's, thankfully. The fear of acid on my teeth was a strong motivator, as well. In the last 10 years, I have lost 65 pounds. It is almost bewildering.

    As for dairy ... it does depend on the farmers involved, and the region, and the ethics chosen. I live in rural settings, with a large thrust of organic and sustainable practices. Consumers can make a difference by their choices. If the cruelty is being rewarded, it continues. If companies making choices that fit your beliefs are being rewarded, then it pulls away from those other companies.

    We do have choices.

    Welcome to the forum ... you will find much compassion and support here.

    Remember, you are strong and you are worthy of every bit of love and compassion there is.
    Believe in yourself :)

    with grace and gratitude,

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