Do some never heal

C64

C64

New Member
Panic attacks and back pain started within first 10 years of my life, in my 20's very bad mental health being internal OCD, agoraphobia and disassociation disorder. Then in my 30's chronic migraines, fibromyalgia, chronic back neck shoulder leg foot pain, insomina, nerve pain and sweating. Discovered Dr Sarno work in 2012 but unable to remove nerve pain, insomina, migraines and internal OCD. Working on TMS aprroach for 4 years and tried all the books, videos, seen therapist and so on,,,, my life is hell atm..... too much pain.... 24/7 pain....maybe some never heal?
 
Hi C64,

I think that it may appear that some who visit this Forum do not heal, based on long-time participation, and this person or that is still not finding relief. So yes, this is possible. Having said that, I would suggest you don't give up, but continue to work with what has resonated with you.

Unfortunately, believing you aren't going to get better is probably the worst contemplation you can do, since TMS activates fear, and when you're afraid, the Syndrome knows it is doing its thing well (distraction). Then the cycle of fear and not getting better tend to be less flexible, less workable. I say this meaning that if you can witness, and not fully believe these thoughts and fears, you are doing great work.

You might start out too with some recognition of this fear of not getting better, and invoke some self-compassion. I send you my deepest support in this. I am sorry you have suffered so much.

Andy B
 
Hi C64,

Sorry to hear that you are dealing with so much. You have a lot going on and have been dealing with it for a long time. Though there is no research to support the idea that the more TMS symptoms you have, and the longer you have had them, then the longer and harder the road to recovery is--still it seems logical. I have been using the TMS approach for almost 4 years now, and while I was able to rid myself of the chronic pain syndromes within a year, I am still struggling with the TMS equivalents of insomnia, anxiety, and depression, which have been with me most of life. Thus, the patterns that sustain them are well entrenched. But what other approaches are out there that have hope of recovery? And the TMS approaches are useful in developing self awareness and self compassion, even if one's symptoms remain intractable. So I agree with @Andy B, hang in there, and start where you are--with the fear of not getting better. Explore that. There is much to learn in it, especially about self compassion.
 
The fact that you are still moving forward, shows what a strong person you are.
I agree with Andy, have compassion for yourself.
I believe TMS healing is about changing the neuro-pathways in the brain, as well. Some heal fast because they haven't had decades of the same neuro-pathways of thought, like you have…along with many many others here on the forums. You aren't alone.

Sending you peace.
 
Very nice, appreciate the responses.....
Yes trained TMS therapist via skype and in person, all from the support site list.....
Currently reading Steve O book, and doing all the TMS work, feeling more optimistic today,,,
Do i want to get better? Screames in large flashing font, exploring this through writing...
 
C64 said:
Panic attacks and back pain started within first 10 years of my life, in my 20's very bad mental health being internal OCD, agoraphobia and disassociation disorder. Then in my 30's chronic migraines, fibromyalgia, chronic back neck shoulder leg foot pain, insomina, nerve pain and sweating. Discovered Dr Sarno work in 2012 but unable to remove nerve pain, insomina, migraines and internal OCD. Working on TMS aprroach for 4 years and tried all the books, videos, seen therapist and so on,,,, my life is hell atm..... too much pain.... 24/7 pain....maybe some never heal?
Click to expand...

People heal when they grow beyond the need for their pain. If you read the posts of people who are not healing you can begin to determine why and this is not me being a smart-ass because it took me years to gain traction. Them TMS goggles show us many things. Mostly we are our own worst enemies. We try too hard, we overwhelm ourselves, we pour gasoline on our rage and flood our fears with worst case-scenarios.

I needed to soothe myself big time before I got anywhere. Maybe you need to do the same. Maybe you need to leave the emotional alone for awhile and focus on soothing your frazzled nervous system.

Honestly my dear I'd completely given up on healing...and only then did my healing start.

Plum x
 
Plum,
I love your words always since seeing you on here.
I just want to weigh in because I have been doing the TMS work since 2005.
I got rid of my excruciating back pain within about two months of working this program in 2005 but ever since, I have struggled with a plethora of other symptoms. I liken it to playing that carnival game called Whack a Mole. I get rid of one TMS symptom and then probably a month or so later I get some other mysterious and strange symptom. As frustrating as it is I know it will eventually go away. Just wish I had mastery of not having new symptoms every time an old one goes away.
 
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Marytabby said:
Plum,
I love your words always since seeing you on here.
I just want to weigh in because I have been doing the TMS work since 2005.
I got rid of my excruciating back pain within about two months of working this program in 2005 but ever since, I have struggled with a plethora of other symptoms. I liken it to playing that carnival game called Whack a Mole. I get rid of one TMS symptom and then probably a month or so later I get some other mysterious and strange symptom. As frustrating as it is I know it will eventually go away. Just wish I had mastery of not having new symptoms every time an old one goes away.
Click to expand...

Mary, I'm feeling the same as you. I feel pretty secure in recognizing it all as TMS, but I guess it's just a long process to retrain the brain paths that have done this pain-thing for decades already. I also appreciate Plum SO MUCH!!
 
plum said:
People heal when they grow beyond the need for their pain. If you read the posts of people who are not healing you can begin to determine why and this is not me being a smart-ass because it took me years to gain traction. Them TMS goggles show us many things. Mostly we are our own worst enemies. We try too hard, we overwhelm ourselves, we pour gasoline on our rage and flood our fears with worst case-scenarios.

I needed to soothe myself big time before I got anywhere. Maybe you need to do the same. Maybe you need to leave the emotional alone for awhile and focus on soothing your frazzled nervous system.

Honestly my dear I'd completely given up on healing...and only then did my healing start.

Plum x
Click to expand...

Very well said plum, you get it. When your stuck in the tms monster (matrix) you can't see out. So you continuing obsessing out of fear and don't really understand tms. Also rejection and loneliness play huge factor (about connection). Hence why a lot of people come to forums all the time, they are isolated and hurting inside, they just want to be heard. People get stuck in trying to feel and dig up emotions from the past, yet again obsessing and putting more logic into this beast than is needed. I had to be my own fool until I finally learned. Just as I believe Einstein said, "insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results." Less is more in the tms approach. Anyways your words of wisdom are always appreciated, we are what we believe.

Ryan
 
Sorry folks i have no idea what you are talking about, i guess thats why i am still in much pain, these posts and other readings like this just seem so confusing, vague and honestly bizarre....... so many contradictions in TMS healing, 1 must do the work, stand up to the bully, affirmations, journal so on but then 2 do nothing, just live, enjoy life, laugh, accept the pain,,,,, this is just madness and very frustrating.... lastly it makes me feel inferior and not smart enough to heal, whilst other appear just too clever because they get it... what is it you get? How do i get it? Did i have it? Maybe i lost it?
 
C64 said:
Sorry folks i have no idea what you are talking about, i guess thats why i am still in much pain, these posts and other readings like this just seem so confusing, vague and honestly bizarre....... so many contradictions in TMS healing, 1 must do the work, stand up to the bully, affirmations, journal so on but then 2 do nothing, just live, enjoy life, laugh, accept the pain,,,,, this is just madness and very frustrating.... lastly it makes me feel inferior and not smart enough to heal, whilst other appear just too clever because they get it... what is it you get? How do i get it? Did i have it? Maybe i lost it?
Click to expand...

I recently said that the words of TMS old timers sound like riddles and they do have this tendency because there is something paradoxical and weird about TMS. This is partly because Sarno had to rely on psychological theories without the back-up from neuroscience. All these years on and science empirically confirms the heart of Sarno's work. Leading edge Doctors such as David Hanscom and Dr. Schu have gone on to evolve Sarno's essential theory.

Think of it like this:

1. There is the psycho-emotional component.
2. There are all the triggers and conditioned responses including the nest of perceptions, thoughts, beliefs we have created around pain.
3. There is a good chance that your nervous system is sensitised.

Broadly speaking, in terms of my own recovery these elements were addressed thus:

1. Sarno. 'nuff said.
2. Dr. Schu, the fascinating world of neuroplasticity, neurogenesis and mindfulness.
3. David Hanscom and the sublime world of sleep.

Anyone who has suffered for a long time may need to poke around in numbers 2 and 3 to gain some healing leverage (and much needed peace) before returning to Sarno. I certainly did. Read My Story for a quick heads up on that.

This next paragraph ties into something @eskimoeskimo is currently posting about too. We can fall into the trap of making a shrine to our pain. Every day we tend to it. Pay it hours of attention. Think about it. Baby it. It's a terrible one-way relationship (that ends up being the best damn teacher on relationships we'll ever have because the cursed thing is an amalgam of every relationship we have ever had). At some point you have to say, "it's been great, don't get me wrong, but I want a healthy relationship with myself/unconscious mind, so thanking you muchly TMS but kindly pack your bags, sling your hook, hit the road."

And you get on with your life while TMS acts like a crazy stalker hanging off your every word and following you every where. And then one glorious day you'll notice it's not there. And then it pops it's ugly little head from a behind a bush and you roll your eyes and it dogs you some more. And one glorious day you notice it's gone...and eventually it goes more and more and your life is given back to you on the condition that you treat it like the exquisite and precious gift it is.

Does this clarify matters a bit more?
 
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Marytabby said:
Plum,
I love your words always since seeing you on here.
I just want to weigh in because I have been doing the TMS work since 2005.
I got rid of my excruciating back pain within about two months of working this program in 2005 but ever since, I have struggled with a plethora of other symptoms. I liken it to playing that carnival game called Whack a Mole. I get rid of one TMS symptom and then probably a month or so later I get some other mysterious and strange symptom. As frustrating as it is I know it will eventually go away. Just wish I had mastery of not having new symptoms every time an old one goes away.
Click to expand...

Thanks for those kind words my dear.

Whack a mole, I really like that. It nails the annoying symptom imperative perfectly. I've recently had a period of extreme stress and busyness which slayed my usual buffers and joys. It was three weeks of emotional insanity and during that time pretty much every form of TMS experienced in my life popped into say hello. IBS made a not-seen-much-since-adolescence three day stay, migraine dropped in every other day, foot pain made a flying visit and my back went into creative mode and generated a mid-back sensation that I can only describe as a ferret stuck in a concrete pipe. Truly bizarre. I let my emotions have free-reign (with a dash of not-now-later when the need demanded it) and between those expressions and some serious time in the jacuzzi (massage heaven), my life returned to it's baseline madness. It was one of those times when TMS blows its cover by trying too hard.
 
Plum that was fantastic, i understand and really connected with the 3 elements. Number 3 for me is the problem. I rarely sleep. I am in pain 24/7 and unfortunately when i jump into bed the pain can become unbearable, so its so hard to sleep or even try meditation. Also i am unable to use any meds to help break the cycle. I am trapped in a vicious pain cycle and which seems impossible to crack. Do you have any suggestions for easing the nervous system without meds? Maybe a good relaxation cd or book or web site...

Plum a big thank you for taking time to reply.
 
C64 said:
Plum that was fantastic, i understand and really connected with the 3 elements. Number 3 for me is the problem. I rarely sleep. I am in pain 24/7 and unfortunately when i jump into bed the pain can become unbearable, so its so hard to sleep or even try meditation. Also i am unable to use any meds to help break the cycle. I am trapped in a vicious pain cycle and which seems impossible to crack. Do you have any suggestions for easing the nervous system without meds? Maybe a good relaxation cd or book or web site...

Plum a big thank you for taking time to reply.
Click to expand...

My pleasure sweetheart.
The best resource bar none for me is an audio book by Rick Hanson called "Stress-Proof Your Brain". It's a brilliant combination of explanation and practice (meditation and mindfulness) and why the nervous system gets so jazzed up and how to calm it down. It's accessible to boot, which matters because neuroscience can be very complicated. I bought mine on iTunes which was a mistake because it bunches all the tracks together. Here is the link to Sounds True where you can listen to an extract. I like Sounds True because they create a digital library for you (easily reached via the app).

http://www.soundstrue.com/store/stress-proof-your-brain-1552.html (Stress-Proof Your Brain)

The other thing I like about this audiobook is that it embraces my steps 2 and 3 because it places an emphasis on well-being and this soothes the autonomic nervous system.

The best way I have found to sleep well is to swim. To be honest I hate exercising and found most of it jangled my nerve too much anyway, but swimming gives me the support and soothing that I need. Are you able to swim? Or exercise at all? One of the add-on problems TMS can give us is an underactive body~overactive mind. This generates a lot of tension. I find a combination of twice-weekly swimming and Yin Yoga mostly gives my body the movement it needs. That and housework.

Lastly, have you tried herbs to encourage sleep? I find them to be gentle and supportive allies.
 
Bless you Plum, you have given me such hope, clarity is ripe, the aha moments are flowing, bless you friend.
I love swimming in the ocean baths which i havent done in years, i shall go for a dip tomorrow when the sun is just starting to rise, maybe see a dolphin or two,and enjoy the refreshing salt air..
I have tried every herb and all natural products but no sleep for me,,,,
I tried exercise and very physical stuff, to exhaust my self to sleep, but that's make insomnia worse...
The best thing for sleep is to eat really bad and i mean real bad, then i sleep like a log but then the pain is horrific and my mental state becomes freighting..... years ago i could take Amitriptyline, which is great for sleep and nerve pain, but i am mentally stuffed from pills and full of phobias, SSRI'S almost killed me,
So, no more TMS learning or hitting the books, vids, post so on, just get on living, soothing activities and enjoy the audio book you have suggested (ouch my leg pain is going nuts) thanks again for spending time being a friend....
 
C64 said:
Bless you Plum, you have given me such hope, clarity is ripe, the aha moments are flowing, bless you friend.
I love swimming in the ocean baths which i havent done in years, i shall go for a dip tomorrow when the sun is just starting to rise, maybe see a dolphin or two,and enjoy the refreshing salt air..
I have tried every herb and all natural products but no sleep for me,,,,
I tried exercise and very physical stuff, to exhaust my self to sleep, but that's make insomnia worse...
The best thing for sleep is to eat really bad and i mean real bad, then i sleep like a log but then the pain is horrific and my mental state becomes freighting..... years ago i could take Amitriptyline, which is great for sleep and nerve pain, but i am mentally stuffed from pills and full of phobias, SSRI'S almost killed me,
So, no more TMS learning or hitting the books, vids, post so on, just get on living, soothing activities and enjoy the audio book you have suggested (ouch my leg pain is going nuts) thanks again for spending time being a friend....
Click to expand...

I pray you find relief my dear and I am ever glad that my nightmare years of TMS translate into healing and helping others. I am envious beyond imagination that you have the ocean so close. Nothing compares with ocean swimming for the way it gives us back to Nature. Actually Nature is another profoundly soothing healing sanctuary. We spend way too much time indoors, online, being all civilised and grown-up and it bleeds us dry. Nature gifts us with the sacred joy of being alive, we come from her and are healed when we return to her. This is not to get all tree-huggy but to honour the elemental (literally) source of our being. My partner says I am a mermaid because I flourish in the water and the ways it takes me out of mind and puts me deeply back into my body.

Follow your bliss and may your healing wrap around you like an embrace from the gods.

Plum x
 
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plum said:
I pray you find relief my dear and I am ever glad that my nightmare years of TMS translate into healing and helping others. I am envious beyond imagination that you have the ocean so close. Nothing compares with ocean swimming for the way it gives us back to Nature. Actually Nature is another profoundly soothing healing sanctuary. We spend way too much time indoors, online, being all civilised and grown-up and it bleeds us dry. Nature gifts us with the sacred joy of being alive, we come from her and are healed when we return to her. This is not to get all tree-huggy but to honour the elemental (literally) source of our being. My partner says I am a mermaid because I flourish in the water and the ways it takes me out of mind and puts me deeply back into my body.

Follow your bliss and may your healing wrap around you like an embrace from the gods.

Plum x
Click to expand...
Totally unrelated to the topic at hand, but I have, or used to have before TMS hijacked my life and personality, a fun, whimsical interest in Zodiac signs, hence my user name... Lunarlass.. I'm born under the sign of Cancer (what irony with my hypochondria, I wish it was called something else..) which is, as all signs are, represented by an element.. In this case.. Water. Anyway, to make a long story short (too late)... Water signs tend to gravitate toward water, ponds, lakes oceans, even hot tubs, swimming, and bath tubs and often find soothing, comfort there or function at their best... Just a useless tidbit here, since the talk was about being near the ocean... I think it can be therapeutic to just about everyone.. (though some love the mountains, or even woodsy places) .. makes me nervous, afraid I'd get lost.. TMS personality trait, I suspect.. Not very adventuresome I guess..
 
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C64 said:
Bless you Plum, you have given me such hope, clarity is ripe, the aha moments are flowing, bless you friend.
I love swimming in the ocean baths which i havent done in years, i shall go for a dip tomorrow when the sun is just starting to rise, maybe see a dolphin or two,and enjoy the refreshing salt air..
I have tried every herb and all natural products but no sleep for me...
I tried exercise and very physical stuff, to exhaust my self to sleep, but that's make insomnia worse...
The best thing for sleep is to eat really bad and i mean real bad, then i sleep like a log but then the pain is horrific and my mental state becomes freighting..... years ago i could take Amitriptyline, which is great for sleep and nerve pain, but i am mentally stuffed from pills and full of phobias, SSRI'S almost killed me,
So, no more TMS learning or hitting the books, vids, post so on, just get on living, soothing activities and enjoy the audio book you have suggested (ouch my leg pain is going nuts) thanks again for spending time being a friend....
Click to expand...
Dear C64... I'm fairly new on here but quickly realized Plum offers A-mazing insight delivered with huge kindness and sensitivity, all beautifully expressed in thoughtful eloquence. I feel blessed to have found this site. I can SO relate to what you've been going through and how you are struggling... However small a comfort, I hope it helps to know, you are NOT alone, people here will be there for you and it keeps hope alive. I always remember myself B-TMS... Before TMS, this vicious life-robbing thing took over, and wanting that life back more than anything, keeps me at this... Right now, I'm at that stage where I think, as Plum rightly pointed out, I'm TMSing about TMS. So easy to do and that makes you feel pissed and want to say f-it, but deep down I know I care too much about myself to do that...anyway, just wanted to send you some support and understanding... Hope it helps, even in the smallest way..
 
plum said:
...(TMS)...It's a terrible one-way relationship (that ends up being the best damn teacher on relationships we'll ever have because the cursed thing is an amalgam of every relationship we have ever had).
Click to expand...

Yes! SteveO's "transcordification" thing.
 
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