Do people need to change their personality to overcome TMS

[BruceMC]

Villagers! Grab your pitchforks. We've got a job to do!

Only problem with a Ms Klein's "people's economic revolution" is with whom you're going to replace the Neo-liberal "Chicago Boys"? The Berkeley "mafia"? The Keynesians at Harvard and NYU? Or may be it would be with the socialists at the London School of Economics? Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your self-interested perspective), the Neo-liberals now own all the pitchforks (the police, the army and the prisons), so any change is going to be potentially quite violent and, in the long run, probably ineffective or downright self-destructive. It's taken 70 years since the end of WWII to get into this economic cul de sac and it's not going to change except gradually without a complete economic meltdown. In the meanwhile, Twitter just issued a 10 billion dollar IPO and Facebook has a 60 billion dollar IPO so things are just great where I live.

 

[chickenbone]

Interesting comments everyone. I am very happy to hear that I am not the only one with a negative bent. I really have been trying to stay more balanced.

njoy - I read your link on IFS and I thought it really had merit. I realize that only part of me looks only at the negative. I want to tone it down, but I realize that it is trying to protect me. It leads me to become more knowledgeable about finance to see the lessons history has to offer and not be fooled by our corrupt "leaders". I think our leaders want us to be as "dumb" as possible and not see the terrible job they are doing and how they have sold us out to vested interests.

Bruce - I think - at least for me - that this issue of finance does have a lot to do with TMS. I think all of us know deep down inside that our leaders have screwed us over, but are afraid to see the truth because, heaven forbid, they might actually have to do something about it. Finance is closely related to safety and security issues, like getting healthcare, so it can really be a significant stressor. I also don't just worry for myself, I worry for everyone.

I can only try to be more balanced.

 

[chickenbone]

Bruce, the good economists are the libertarian Austrian school. This stuff comes from the likes of Adam Smith and Carl Menger who really did understand human economic nature.

 

[Forest]

I realize that only part of me looks only at the negative. I want to tone it down, but I realize that it is trying to protect me....Finance is closely related to safety and security issues

This brings me back to the line Andrew Miller said that our symptoms will be with us for as long as we need them to be. Our symptoms will be with us as long as we continue to need them to protect us and make us feel secure, whether it is pain or anxiety. The safety and security these symptoms provide us help us manage our deep fear of being abandoned. This goes hand in hand with the core issues of Existential Therapy, specifically the issue of isolation. Dr. Zafirides said:

It can be activated by an infinite number of stressors - a bad relationship, an unfulfilling job, financial debt, bad health (personal and of family members), etc. Those stressors remind us - consciously or unconsciously - that no matter how close our relationships are, there is still an unbridgeable gap of aloneness all of us have to reconcile. This can be very anxiety-ridden. As a result, TMS pain may be activated.
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Again it is the relationship between these common life stressors and our fear of being alone and isolated.

​

 

[Leonor]

I wouldn't get too hung up, Chickenbone, on paranoid rumors of Illuminati and chants about "Beware the House of Rothschild!". The current state of the world's economic mess goes back to real flesh and blood people at the University of Chicago School of Economics and the adoption of their three-point Neo-liberal program of deregulation, privatization, and cuts in education and social spending. It's all spelled out in Milton Friedman's Capitalism and Freedom (1962). In the Shock Doctrine (2007) Naomi Klein chronicles how this program was sold to various power elites, first in the South America and the Third World, and then back home here in the US.

Every time I hear about the Chicago boys I want to scream! It pains me so much that I always avoid the topic. I can't control my anger. Fascist Chilean economist were trained in Chicago after the military coup of 1973 and they imposed this immensely unjust economy that we still have. Chile is a very rich country, lots of copper, but the distribution of health is so uneven, that the middle class almost disappeared in Chile. I know I have to work on this anger, but just thinking of all the pain, deaths, imprisonment, torture, evilness and exile that we had to endure in order for them to impose this so called Neo-liberal program makes me still furious.
Leonor

 

[Forest]

This is such an interesting topic and there were a lot of terrific responses from the old thread, so I decided to include them below. You may remember some of these from the SEP, but they are so good and relevant to this discussion that I thought I would bring them over (I can't remember bringing these over before, so I apologize if they are already on this forum in another thread). I am intrigued to hear everyone's opinions about these posts, especially since most of them are around 3 years old.

I think this question needs to be re-worded. We need to change otherwise we won't get better. But , this question is too opene ended.

I don't think we have to consciously change our personalities. I think change comes gradually without any conscious effort. Once a person accepts the diagnosis they somehow let themselves feel more..opening themselves to many possibilities.

It may not always be about changing. It can be about recognizing those thought and patterns that can keep us from recovery. Initially if we think we have to change, than we can create more tension by forcing about recovery. It's little by little. I think the recognition of our thought patterns can eventually lead us to change.

Psychotherapy can help acknowledge some painful patterns that we continue to create for ourselves that lead to the TMS pain syndrome. I don't think everyone has to change, but in my case, I did have to make many changes. I needed to take charge of my own health and be responsible for my self, and stop feeling responsible for everyone elses wellbeing. I reset boundaries for myself, that if I cross today, my pain comes back. I think it's about taking full ownership for one's self--actions, emotions, and intentions, and setting realisic expectations/limits on what others can expect from you.

I agree with these responses. We don't need to (and probably can't) change who we are as people and change our personalities. What we can do and need to do is understand how our personalities have affected and contributed to our symptoms. It is also important to focus on our needs, and stop repressing emotions.

In The Divided Mind on pg. 182, Dr. Sarno writes "Patients are routinely advised that they need not strive to change their personalities in order to be successful...One cannot change one's inherent traits, though they can be consciously modified. For example, the person who feels perpetually compelled to make a doormat of himself and do nice things for others can take stock and decide to curb the tendency."

Whilst we may not be able to change our personalities we can change the way we think about things? By blocking negative thoughts and exchanging them for more helpful ones. Everything starts with a thought A belief) Once we do this (Change our belief) it will have a positive effect on our feelings towards that thought and consequently our behaviour will change for the better. This is basic CBT.

That is how I understood it in Dr. Sarno's books, that we don't need to change who we are or make drastic lifestyle changes to solve our chronic pain, but changing how we think about the pain, acknowledging that it is caused by the "trick of the brain", is enough to bring on recovery.

Over the years, I've come across many methods of healing that required change when it was needed. To use the example that Forest quoted from The Divided Mind, about the 'doormat', it is not necessary to leave a husband or boss, or sibling that treats one as a doormat or move to the other side of the world to avoid it, if we want to recover from chronic pain, but it is necessary to admit it, to tell the unconscious that there is no need for distraction from that emotion. It is recognized, acknowledged and so the reason for the pain distraction is no longer valid.

Not sure if what I've written is exactly what I'm thinking, but maybe you know what I mean! lol

I agree with all four people quoted in your original post, Forest. Change does come, gradually and naturally, but it isn't absolutely necessary to cause upheaval in your personal life to find relief from chronic TMS conditions.

I'm not sure exactly what counts as a personality trait, but I know from personal experience over the last few weeks that a lot of things which I had regarded as aspects of my personality and which were hindering my recovery (still in progress) are actually the result of unresolved emotional experiences or other deep down, hard to uncover reasons. When I understand why I am like the way I am in some aspect of my personality, that aspect can fade away. Even though I knew I had the unhealthy trait, I couldn't stop being like that, until I became concious of the cause, and then it just changes naturally. So I feel like I am changing my personality in many ways, by addressing the causes of those problem-causing traits. In contrast, the good (i.e. healthy) things about my personality don't seem to have any particular cause.

For example, I tend to waffle on about things I don't have any expertise on as though I had (see previous paragraph, for example!), which often gets me into trouble and I get stressed and tense as I do it or know I'm goiing to indulge in it. Then I realised it's a symptom of insecurity about my general ignorance and a kind of compensatory measure. I feel some instant relaxation and pain relief when I realise the cause of what I see as negative traits since I have less fear I'm going to repeat the painful pattern.

Greg, it sounds like you are starting to gain some real insight into what is causing your symptoms. This can be difficult to do so congratulations. I also agree with you that by gaining insight into the way we think, we can change how we react to situations. Understanding can lead to change in time.

I agree with marj in that we don't have to move away from people or stop doing some of the things we usually do, such as helping people out, organizing events, or volunteering to work on a Saturday. However, I do think it is important to understand how you feel about each of these things, and sometimes do what you want to do, not what you think you ought to do to be the perfect parent, spouse, or employee.

Dr. Sarno's answer is an emphatic: No! He drilled this and many other concepts into a group of us who spent three months with him at Rusk institute in 1983. You just need to make connections: marriage trouble and back pain, or work trouble and back pain. I fully cured my back pain while remaining in a bad marriage and nasty job and remaining the same driven perfectionist. What changed was my knowing what caused the pain and what did not. Steve

he way that I like to view this question is as follows:

We are born with our 'True Nature'; the very basic essence, the beautiful natural core of who we are. In an ideal world, through the natural flow of energy through all aspects of our experience, IE., interpersonal, intrapsychic, spiritual, etc., (Sensations, Images, Behavior, Affect and Meaning - SIBAM) we continue to grow and evolve more and more into this true natural free flowing beautiful self.

Due to environmental stress, 'small' and 'large' traumas, 'attachment' disruptions, Autonomic Nervous System adaptations and the like, over the years, many 'layers' are added to and tend to cover up this natural core. Through the process of growth and change, my experience is that we 'shed' these unnatural, unwanted, negative aspects of 'self' and become more and more that beautiful self that we truly are!

I think some people 'fear' the idea of 'changing our personalities' because our experience of self, of who we ARE, is tied up in and interwoven with those negative aspects. One fear is that we might 'lose' the sense we have of ourselves if we 'change our personalities'. This could not be further from the truth. As we 'shed' the unwanted, unnatural aspects of self we 'picked up along the way', we 'become' more and more who we really are. We do not lose ANY aspect of ourselves that we do not want to lose. And, more good news, This is a natural process. We do not have to work at all at deciphering which parts to keep and which to let go of. Our Autonomic Nervous Systems simply, naturally shed, or in the language of 'Somatic Experiencing', 'discharge' the previously 'stuck' negative energy that was manifested as unwanted aspects of our personality, and thus interfering with the natural flow of who we really are.

I really like this idea, and completely agree with it. Fear plays such a major role in TMS, i.e. fear of activity, fear of pain, and even fear of changing. Addressing these fears is huge part of recovery.

Just to 'piggy back' on this theme of fear a bit more;
On a purely physiological level fear can not only create but play a significant role in perpetuating pain cycles and it can manifest on any and all levels of 'SIBAM'. I have my clients do the following experiment in session; Think a negative anxious thought about the near future like, "What if..., (what if I get into pain later) and just simply notice the reaction in the body. You will notice almost global Tension throughout. Now change that thought to a more relaxed, "If I get into pain later, I'll deal with it THEN, not now". Most people will notice, if not full relaxation, at least a significant reduction in the Tension. Let's remember what the first word is in Dr. Sarno's diagnosis, 'T' MS... and since fear and LOVE are incompatible, the more we love (ourselves, others, the world, life, etc.) the less fear we will have, and thus the less pain.

its better not to live on a borrowed personality. we all borrow a bit of somebody else's personality in our lives. maybe thats part of the problem and not a solution.

I absolutely love your post Dr. Evans--and agree! While we may not "have" to change our personalities, I feel the whole purpose of TMS is an opportunity to shed those aspects of ourselves that no longer serve/nurture us--that perhaps never did (those "false refuges" that Tara Brach talks about). I am not sure which came first, the TMS symptoms or all this fear, as they are certainly tangled. Either way, I don't want to keep either. And while I easily forget and get caught in the content of my thoughts--and sense of self that has habitually been hooked to them--I know that this cycle can only be broken when I step out of thought and the fear they generate. This may not be changing who I essentially am, but it is changing the ego-self I typically take myself to be me. I am more, but I often "forget." Knowledge about TMS is not enough for me; I am learning the importance of shifting all aspects of my experience toward courage, faith and kindness rather than fear, anxiety and frustration. Sounds like a "personality change" to me.

Mindfulness: It sounds like you are starting to gain clarity in how to recover. I think that once we "shed those aspects of ourselves that no longer serve us" we put ourselves in a place where our unconscious no longer needs to create pain to distract us from emotions.

Wow, Dr Evans so beautifully described what I just started to realize today when journaling about my personality trait. Low self-esteem in me results from social anxiety and constant fear of being judged and not expressing my true opinions. This makes me bury my frustration and anger. And while I know I'm a worthy person, if I'm unable to speak my truth, it creates an empty space in me which gets filled by 'other people's truthts', or at least my projections of what they think about me. I realized in the last few years I didn't live by my own values as much as I wanted, partly from explicit external pressures and partly from my perceptual insecurity.

But today I happened to have a good day, feeling confident in myself and allowing this free flow of energy, instead of blocking it. My pain level is way down from what it was 2 days ago (a terrible setback despite realizing the trigger of my psychological distress). I was getting stuck in the inner struggles, trying to resolve conflicts and constantly seeking the mental source of my pain. I think from now on I will focus more on the good experiences and the feeling of freedom they bring. And hopefully become the pain-free, worry-free person I was just few years ago, more myself than I am currently.

Ollin, I think that focusing on the good things is a good way to go about it. While recognizing our emotions is imperative, it is important to remember to not obsess over our treatment. A major part of recovering from TMS is realizing that we can live the lives we want and to go out there and return to our old lives. Having a positive mindset can help in overcoming the fear and anxiety that worsens chronic symptoms.

Congratulations on the great insights you have been making. It sounds like you are doing a great job.

 

[Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)]

If I change my personality, I wouldn't recognize myself. My dog would bark at me.

I see myself as a nice guy but don't take advantage of my friendship.
Betrayal of friendship will not be tolerated.
I'd rather hug you, but if you give me TMS, so long, and it wasn't good to know you.

 

[BruceMC]

Chickenbone and Leonor, I don't think anyone in the USA knows what kind of damage the "Chicago Boys" did to the economies of countries like Chile where the middle class was almost entirely eliminated due to their policies. I used to climb with the son of the founder of the Austrian School of Economics. He's a Hoover Fellow at Stanford U. in Palo Alto right now. And Naomi Klein has "grabbed the pitchforks" and is at the "barricades". She's an economic advisor at the UN, the International Monetary Fund (IMF), and the World Bank. She's no lightweight "Anonymous" prankster. She was one of the only ones who successfully predicted the economic meltdown of 2007-2008 so Noami's got big bucks behind her right now:

http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine

I'm beginning to wonder whether the epidemic of back pain that started approximately 30 years ago in the Western developed world is rooted in the ongoing stress we all feel due to economic policies designed to keep the consumers in perpetual credit debt. I see that Dr Sarno places a big mortgage high on his list of traumatic events lead to the development of PPD (psycho-physiologic disorders). But what about when the entire middle class of a country is crushed under revolving debt as a way of life? Must have some affect/effect on the collective psyches of the consumer classes. Just not like living as a hunter-gatherer on the Serengeti Plain anymore.

 

[Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)]

Bruce, to me, debt, especially credit card debt, is one of the biggest TMSers we have.
I don't think a lot of people got into credit card debt by buying expensive cars or taking luxury vacations
or having million-dollar weddings. They got into debt by trying to keep paying their mortgage and
other bills as the economy began sinking and then sank.

I was going to write what I think the reasons why they're in debt but that becomes political,
and politics do not belong on the forum.

But I totally agree that debt and financial worries cause a lot of people TMS.

 

[Leonor]

But what about when the entire middle class of a country is crushed under revolving debt as a way of life? Must have some affect/effect on the collective psyches of the consumer classes. Just not like living as a hunter-gatherer on the Serengeti Plain anymore.

Bruce, this is very interesting. Every time I visited Chile I noticed a lot of people dying of cancer. I asked around and I noticed that in Chile nowadays there is an epidemic of cancer and fibromyalgia sufferers, very common there.
Leonor

 

[BruceMC]

Yes, Leonor, when the level of debt gets so high that it stresses people out, the "Body Says No" like the title of Gabor Mate's book implies. Big macro correlations exist between economics and physical and mental health no doubt. Lots and lots of people went crazy in the Wiemar Republic when inflation spiraled out of control during the early 1920s during WWI.

 

[chickenbone]

Debt is just a form of "benevolent" slavery. I think at the core, most of us realize this. I really believe that economics is at the core of a lot of TMS problems. Unfortunately, most people don't understand it and don't want to even admit it to themselves, mainly because they don't think they could do anything about it. For me at least, it is really important to recognize it, at the very least. That is why my husband and I moved to Panama after we retired. It gave us an out from the corrupt US economic repression. We are still partially trapped, but not totally.

10 or 15 years ago, people like me who don't trust the bubbles in the stock market would be able to invest conservatively in US Govt. bonds and earn 4 or 5% in retirement. However the Fed's financial repression in the form of practically zero interest rates has robbed savers, pensioners and retired people of the interest on savings. All to save an insolvent banking system.

I do believe, like Dr. Sarno said that in order to heal, we don't need to solve our problems and issues, but we do need to bring them out of unconsciousness into the conscious mind to examine them. We, as individuals, can't solve most of the problems in the world, but we need to recognize what is bothering us.

 

[Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)]

I wish I could move to Panama, or somewhere. A friend moved to Costa Rica years ago and still loves it.
He taught English at a village school and married a Costa Rican girl and they had a daughter.

America needs a complete overhaul of its business-political marriage. A divorce. But it will never happen
and meanwhile we all suffer. You're right in that economics causes a lot of TMS pain.
So do computers that act up, like mine.

 

[chickenbone]

Right, Walt. Panama is great for a laid back lifestyle, but we live on the beach where the internet is not good. I am not able to really participate in most of the great stuff on this forum because of that. I think it would help me if I could. There are other place where I can access better internet, but usually there is no privacy and too much noise.