Do people in general really want to get better?

[GirlFromBrazil]

Have you ever talked to someone who clearly has TMS — talked about Dr. Sarno, Alan Gordon, the books, and your own recovery story — and they showed little to no interest?
I mean, ever since I got the courage to talk about it with others (and I know several people with fibromyalgia, chronic pain, and similar symptoms), they seem excited about TMS content… but what I notice is that they don’t REALLY look into it. This pisses me off. Hahaha.

I even created an Instagram account to post content in Portuguese (I’m from Brazil), but no one cares!
Are they lazy? Don’t they trust me?

When I told my doctor about TMS and what I’ve been going through, she said, “That’s nice, but most people don’t want to go through it. They want a quick solution.”
I get it. I’m on meds too. But they’re not enough. They never were.

Maybe they’re not suffering enough?
I don’t know…

Please let me know if you guys have gone through something similar.

 

[Mr Hip Guy]

This is extremely common - I think most people that discover TMS and recovery methods want to evangelize and share the word and are almost always met with the response you describe.

Steve Ozanich himself coined the "threw the book across the room" trope where first time Sarno readers reject the message.

There's lots of reasons for this but your doctor is right, most people want a quick solution - they want to take a pill, or a do a stretch, etc. There's also some offloading of blame too - "this happened to me, from some external source - there is no way I caused it!"

 

[Fal]

I' ve tried to help people and got shot down instantly even when i try to explain how the human body works, they might not never know but ultimately they will find out when they are ready.

 

[BloodMoon]

Maybe they’re not suffering enough?

For some people that's true... they have to be at rock bottom, e.g. bedridden and housebound, before they will give mind/body/TMS work a chance. As @Fal says, they will find out if/when they are ready.

And as @Mr Hip Guy says, there are lot of reasons to include the ones he mentions.

Sometimes people even get angry when you tell them about TMS... the reasons for this are discussed on this thread https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/why-people-get-so-angry-when-i-mention-tms.30121/#post-161690 The main one is that they think they are being told that they have something mentally wrong with them because they interpret what you're telling them as being "it's all in your head" and therefore "you're going crazy".

 

[Mr Hip Guy]

"When the pupil is ready, the teacher will appear."

That applies here, and Bloodmoon is right above.

I still get disappointed over this dynamic, but it is almost universally true - anytime I have tried to broach this subject when friends, family, etc I have been rebuked. The only one I have won over has been my wife and she is still not 100% on board like I am. I've amended my methods over time, now I just listen to all the talk about aches and pains and whatever the ailment du jour is, and try to "nudge" the conversation in the right direction - I literally did this with someone just yesterday who was talking about their chiropracter visits and how their spine is "straight, no S-curve - and the Chiro said that's why I feel pain". I just listened and gently (in my mind) called into question the entire modality of that kind of thinking. Maybe I managed to plant a seed, who knows.

 

[Cactusflower]

I have a few friends who have healed with mind/body methods and when two of us speak of what we've observed, others seem a bit more open to it...but 99% of the time people consistently fall back to the physical - especially when any emotional "work" or "anxiety" is mentioned. I don't much bother talking about it now unless someone specifically asks or comments.

 

[GirlFromBrazil]

@

This is extremely common - I think most people that discover TMS and recovery methods want to evangelize and share the word and are almost always met with the response you describe.

Steve Ozanich himself coined the "threw the book across the room" trope where first time Sarno readers reject the message.

There's lots of reasons for this but your doctor is right, most people want a quick solution - they want to take a pill, or a do a stretch, etc. There's also some offloading of blame too - "this happened to me, from some external source - there is no way I caused it!"

Hahaha I like the term "to evangelize".
When I discovered Sarno I was like "OMG I NEED TO SHARE THIS INFORMATION, PEOPLE WILL BE AMAZED"
lol I was so naiv.

 

[GirlFromBrazil]

For some people that's true... they have to be at rock bottom, e.g. bedridden and housebound, before they will give mind/body/TMS work a chance. As @Fal says, they will find out if/when they are ready.

And as @Mr Hip Guy says, there are lot of reasons to include the ones he mentions.

Sometimes people even get angry when you tell them about TMS... the reasons for this are discussed on this thread https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/why-people-get-so-angry-when-i-mention-tms.30121/#post-161690 The main one is that they think they are being told that they have something mentally wrong with them because they interpret what you're telling them as being "it's all in your head" and therefore "you're going crazy".

Yeah, I undestard...
Thankfully I've always been an open-minded person, and I even knew about the mindbody connection prior to discovering Sarno's books - I just didn't know what to do to get better.
I'll check the thread, thanks.

 

[Khetu]

I've lent my copy of The Mind-Body Prescription to at least four different people. It's always the same, they show interest in my recovery when I share information about it, I tell them about what I did, they ask how they can replicate it, I led them the book - a month later they give it back saying "I didn't really get time to read it," followed by excuses about why they can't attempt it, let alone even start and fail. Like others have said, I don't really bother talking about it unless I'm asked directly in person. It's disappointing, but you can't help people who won't help themselves. They have to seek it out and be willing to give it a chance off their own back and hard work.

 

[GirlFromBrazil]

@Khetu I get it...
But every time I remember how fucked I was before learning about TMS, I can’t help but think, ‘There must be so many people suffering like I was… if only someone had known and told me.’ But no — I had to dig through the internet until I found out about it on my own. Maybe that's the natural pathway, then -

"When the pupil is ready, the teacher will appear."

.

 

[louaci]

People want to get better physically, but a lot of times they feel "safer" in their current states of life (familiar coping mechanisms, familiar relationships) with "bearable" symptoms. Symptoms could suddenly get worse and debilitating, and become a great distraction for a while and then kind of tapers down after a while and somewhat livable, then it repeats. Quite often, people have to feel so desperate to change, like they rather die than live in the current states, then they could finally face the emotions they could not face for so long.

For example, a parent finds the responsibility of raising a child too much, or an adult finds taking care of aging parent too much, or a spouse finds the other one too over bearing and inhibits one's true self, or one finds his or her career is not really what they want, etc. There would be a lot of rage, resentment, sadness, guilt, regrets, shame, etc., that would undermine one's long established socially accepted image in front of others and oneself, and nobody wants to shatter that image.

Usually for the ones to figure this out and cure their chronically symptoms, they Do need to change their life and relationships in the sense of living truly to themselves. The changes are from within, sometimes coupled with external big changes such as divorce, moving, leaving a job etc. Even without big life changes, they would likely approach their life and relationships with new perspectives and may reset boundaries and life goals. It would be helpful for people with chronical symptoms to learn about TMS, and also their loved ones too if possible.

 

[Mr Hip Guy]

And let's not forget the role the TMS brain plays in this - all these people that are resistant to hearing the message (or resistant to do the work or read the book you give them) are being led by the TMS brain to avoid it. Heck, I consider myself an expert on this stuff and my TMS brain still makes doing the work seem like a task and tries to divert me away from it often.

 

[Emin_1998]

I told my sleep therapist about TMS and she knows a bit about the mind-body and told me that most people are not willing and or ready to hear that these aches and pains are genuinely from their own brain/subconcious emotions.

 

[feduccini]

What I can say from what I've read and talked about is that TMS is not a far fetched concept to most of people. They tend to get the idea that our nervous system amplifies the sensations and makes acute pain become chronic. But only when you're talking about yourself. When you try to tell your friend that that back pain might be coming from repressed stuff, their ego quickly armors them from anything that resembles digging up the dirt. And they don't even realize it, it's all unconscious. They rationalize it and go back to the position where they can't do anything, they're a victim of the circumstances.

And I think that's the point. TMS work is a scary thing. You gotta face memories that hurt and shame you. The results usually don't come right away. You gotta stay positive not to feed the loop, and that's quite hard for the victimized mindframe. All that with a limbic system cutting energy to the rational portion of the brain, with symptoms screaming in your ears...

So, yes, I think there's people who choose the pain. Not straightforwardly of course. The rationalize, create excuses, say they're going to look into it, but not right now because they have no time...

Heck, I consider myself an expert on this stuff and my TMS brain still makes doing the work seem like a task and tries to divert me away from it often.

Yep, it's hard. I try to float above the frustration thoughts, but it takes energy to accept the constant stimulus of anxiety and let it flow. There are moments we'd better take the hit, write about it, let the inner child do their tantrum...

 

[mikeinlondon]

TMS (Central Sensitisation) isn't a medical condition and I say this because into any hospital or doctor surgery and they will just use terms like fibromylagia, anxiety etc. Even with doctors there's no consensus on what causes chronic pains. It isn't caused by a pathogen, or inflammation or autoimmune ... it's the limbic brain amplifying normal body signals. There is no medical solution for this "condition", the closest thing to a treatment is ketamine - even that is temporary relief. The only treatment is hard work i.e. training your mind that it has misinterpreted signals from the body, is amplifying them and treating them as dangerous ... allowing the symptoms in the background while being neutral and at peace with them so as to not drive fear ... it's akin to walking on hot coals everyday whilst not flinching or tensing. One has got to be very brave to do TMS therapy because it is probably the most hardest challenge anyone will ever face. For those with severe TMS/CS it like walking up Mount Everest daily. So one has to reach rock bottom i.e. lost most quality of life ... facing ending their life ... so TMS work is a hope for people to give them their life back. For me it's either TMS work or ending my life as there's no drug that will work for me (Ketamine is way too risky) so there's no choice.

 

[caleb888]

It is not about them not trusting you, it is about them not trusting the process because it is hard work. Medications offer a passive solution, but the kind of recovery you are talking about requires intense self-reflection and emotional change. People want quick relief, not deep personal work, especially when they are already suffering every day.

 

[Bonnard]

I think there's another piece driving this. Folks have spent years, even decades, of their lives with these issues, to the point where it's a part of their identity. It's engrained in their day-to-day in their relationships, and in interactions with all others. Changing would mean radically changing ideas and structural stuff that has shaped their lives.

 

[Jheronimus_van_aken]

Chronic illness is usually associated with developing a strong victimhood complex and sense of learned helplessness. In some cases, it almost seems to progress to become a form of stockholm syndrome. They become so stuck that they no longer seem to actually want to recover. After all, if they recover, they cannot use their illness as a crutch, upon which they blame everything wrong with their lives. People in chronic illness communities especially hate it when someone they used to know comes back and reports being recovered. They’ll usually dismiss your recovery, call you a liar, or say that you were actually ‘never sick’ or that you weren’t *that* sick, and that they are way more sick and that’s why you recovered and they didn’t (all of this is gaslighting from them, despite chronically ill people in communities often complaining about being gaslighted by other people themselves). It’s all part of a giant victimhood pyramid, and they will go to extreme lengths of mental gymnastics to dismiss the stories of people who recovered, even when it is obvious they actually did recover.

People ultimately need to make the decision to want to recover themselves. Most of the time, you cannot convince them. They *need* to want to recover. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink, as they say. It’s a decision they need to make for themselves.

 

[GirlFromBrazil]

Chronic illness is usually associated with developing a strong victimhood complex and sense of learned helplessness. In some cases, it almost seems to progress to become a form of stockholm syndrome. They become so stuck that they no longer seem to actually want to recover. After all, if they recover, they cannot use their illness as a crutch, upon which they blame everything wrong with their lives. People in chronic illness communities especially hate it when someone they used to know comes back and reports being recovered. They’ll usually dismiss your recovery, call you a liar, or say that you were actually ‘never sick’ or that you weren’t *that* sick, and that they are way more sick and that’s why you recovered and they didn’t (all of this is gaslighting from them, despite chronically ill people in communities often complaining about being gaslighted by other people themselves). It’s all part of a giant victimhood pyramid, and they will go to extreme lengths of mental gymnastics to dismiss the stories of people who recovered, even when it is obvious they actually did recover.

People ultimately need to make the decision to want to recover themselves. Most of the time, you cannot convince them. They *need* to want to recover. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink, as they say. It’s a decision they need to make for themselves.

There's so much true in everything you said. I know people like the ones you described. I haven't talked to them yet because I know they'll probably have the reaction you mentioned. It's sad, but it's reality. Meanwhile, I create content in Portuguese for people who really are interested.