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Dislocated vertebrae

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by Annette K., Jan 5, 2017.

  1. Annette K.

    Annette K. New Member

    Hi everyone,

    after six months of TMS-work I already have gotten much better. However, there is one obstacle I share with a close friend of mine, who also has TMS. When getting treatment by an osteo in the past we both have frequently been told that our vertebrae (I hope that is the right English word) and SI-joints were not in the correct postion. They called it "instable". I know that this is a very popular diagnosis among physicians and I have been working on convincing myself that this is not the cause of my pain.
    I have managed to go without seeing an osteo for two months (which is quite an achievement for me). Now I`m back in pain and it feels like the same old vertebra-issue.

    I am wondering: does tension created by TMS have so much power that it can alter the position of parts of your spine or could that be a normal physical disposition which does not neccessarily cause pain? When this happens I feel crooked and blocked, unable to move freely. The tension is usually stronger at one side of the body and spreads everywhere.
    Sometimes my father and brother get this too (they don`t have TMS), but after a few days and without getting treatment they are fine again.

    Currently I am having a very painful relapse (for obvious psychological reasons), feeling twisted and crooked, and the question above is the one last point about TMS I am not completely sure about. That makes it difficult to really heal. I would love to see a TMS doctor to discuss this but we don`t have any in Germany.

    Is there anybody else who had the same issue and was able to get rid of it after classifying it as TMS?
    That would be very helpful!
  2. Gigalos

    Gigalos Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Annette,
    Yes, TMS can misalign joints or make them 'instable'. It has to do with unbalanced muscle tension and poorer control of the muscles. I was twisted and crooked once; I was misaligned completely from head to feet and had pains come and go everywhere in my body. A physician tried to correct my posture but that didn't bring any relief. Only when I started to see it as a symptom of TMS I started to improve. Follow the TMS path and one day you will notice that you are more or less symmetrical again. That said, nobody is perfectly symmetrical, so focus on how it feels rather than how it looks.
  3. Bettina

    Bettina New Member

    In my similar struggles, I came to understand that it wasn't so important to figure out whether or not you might have some physical "abnormality" -but rather to understand that such abnormalities do not generate the kind of pain we are experiencing. Thus, it is the pain generated by the brain, which has seized hold of this fear/belief that something is "broken" in that spot and is generating pain as an overly protective response. I know this is a somewhat different take on it than Dr. Sarno's concept of it being distraction from emotion, but it seemed to make perfect sense for me and has been my cure so far. Good luck and stay the course!
  4. Annette K.

    Annette K. New Member

    Thank you both very much for your helpful replies!
  5. MindBodyPT

    MindBodyPT Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Annette!

    The folks above have the right idea! I'm a physical therapist in the US so I have lots of experience with the idea that being "out of alignment" could cause pain. This idea is currently very popular in the medical community, unfortunately, and promotes what I think now is an over-pathologizing of small issues.

    After my own journey with TMS and thinking about many of the clients I see, I truly believe that many of these "diagnoses" are what Sarno calls normal abnormalities. All of us are out of alignment, twisted and imbalanced in various ways! In reality the SI joint is quite stable and moves only a tiny bit...no one's body is ever in perfect alignment. The cause of your pain, in the absence of true pathology, is most likely TMS related and not due to small shifts in the position of the SI or any other joint.

    I will tell you that I was diagnosed with 2 herniated discs in my lumbar spine (close to my SI) and felt "unstable" and tense for months until I discovered TMS...in the past few weeks that feeling has gone away entirely as my pain decreased, no physical intervention necessary.

    Hope you start to feel better soon, keep doing TMS reading and journaling and reaffirming your belief!
    Lunarlass66 likes this.
  6. Annette K.

    Annette K. New Member

    MindBodyPT, thanks a lot! Your answer is especially reaffirming because you are a physical therapist and have professional knowledge! The crisis seems to be over, there is a symptom imperative going on which is quite interesting. I will create a different thread abot about that...thanks again.
    Lunarlass66 and MindBodyPT like this.
  7. Annette K.

    Annette K. New Member

    And good luck to all of you on your journey!


    I know others have already answered this one months ago, but I thought I might strengthen your faith a little more...
    Although I have no experience with TMS in that area, I advise you check out chapter 3 "INTRODUCTION TO THE TENSION MYOSITIS SYNDROME: MANIFESTATIONS IN LOW BACK AND LEGS" (page 6/14) of "The Mindbody Prescription".

    Page 8/14 gives advice on "spondylolisthesis:"
    "A dramatic looking abnormality in which a lumbar vertebra has moved out of line with the one below, usually forward. Cases range from mild to severe. The cause of the condition is mysterious, but in my experience the disorder is painless. I have photographs of serial [sic] X rays on a young woman who was unaware that she had developed this abnormality because she had no pain. The X rays were done for some other reason and the spondylolosthesis was discovered by accident. This does not surprise me, for I have yet to see someone with spondylolisthesis who did not have TMS."

    This is an example, among others, in Sarno's own words, of how structural abnormalities do not necessarily cause pain. On the same page he talks about scoliosis (side to side curvature) of the spine and how it is often blamed for the pain because doctors are unaware of the existence of TMS. To quote him again: "Over and over the pain of TMS is attributed to some structural abnormality or a physical or mechanical process because the medical profession is not aware of the existence of TMS."

    So in short, yes, according to what I'm getting from this chapter, your abnormality could "be a normal physical disposition which does not necessarily cause pain".

  9. Annette K.

    Annette K. New Member

    Mindovermatter, thanks a lot for your post. It is always good to be reminded of a logical explanation why the pain is not due to any physical reason. Especially while struggling with a relapse, which is happening right now. Best wishes for your journey!
  10. Plumcrazy

    Plumcrazy Peer Supporter

    Nail hit squarely on the head. I am currently working through what I suspect to be spondylolothesis, and I definitely have very significant scoliosis. I never ever had back pain until last year. I am in my 50's. Rule out scoliosis for pain. The Spondy-like issues are what brought me back to this forum, recently. The tension, popping, grinding, and pinching in the low spine now seems to be going away for longer periods of time. It is TMS.
  11. aleksey

    aleksey New Member

    I have same issue - "unstable vertebrae" in thoracic spine for years. First 10+ years chiro manipulation every time magically removed all pain. But after a small spine trauma during a particularly stressful period chiro sessions just stopped working.
    I'd like to agree that something being out of alignment is just a TMS, but:
    1) why chiro manipulations worked for so many years ? it's as if a joint in question was damaged only a little, but now finally worn out and can't be helped.
    2) another lingering doubt of mine: What about nerves surrounding unstable joint/vertabrae etc? Wouldn't nerve be compressed, constantly irritated without having ability to heal. I believe that all in a body heals. But what if the surrounded tissues constantly being reinjured (supposedly) by movements?

    By the way, my MRI and X-rays not showing any significant damage in the area - only moderate disks degeneration and signs of arthritis. That's why I assumed it's TMS. But I've been journaling\meditating etc for a year with only little improvement. I guess it's just because I'm not fully convinced yet.

    Any thought on that would be very helpful!
  12. Gigalos

    Gigalos Beloved Grand Eagle

    Just some thoughts I wanted to share... maybe some of them turn out to be helpful.

    Why does chiropractice work sometimes? Imho it could be two things or a combination of those two. First it could be the momentary disturbance of a neural pathway by 'cracking', which makes it suddenly die down and muscles involved are able to 'uncramp'. Second it involves surrendering to and trusting a person to help you. Surrendering/trusting could be seen as a way of leaving the state of high alert that you are in.
    Many stories about chiropractice involve having to return on a regular base as the symptoms return or gotten worse, probably because you have returned to the state of mind that got you in trouble in the first place. If it suddenly doesn't work anymore, maybe the underlying emotion is too strong or you are unable to surrender...??? I really can't tell.

    If a nerve coming out of your spine really gets damaged/pinched, I feel it should involve only symptoms in parts of the body that are directly connected to that nerve (loss of muscle control, loss of muscle feedback, numbness, pain(?)). More often than not this is not the case. I believe some herniations can create serious havoc, but in most cases there are dead giveaways that should tell a well educated neurologist that something else is going on (and it's probably TMS...).

    The 'you have to be 100% convinced' argument involves the same surrendering to or trusting any person (including yourself!) who tells you that it is all TMS. Making an evidence sheet is one way to help you getting more convinced (p.e. july 2nd, I got up to pee at night and only when I returned to bed I noticed that I had no symptoms.) Rereading this sheet once and a while can be very comforting that you are on the right path.
    I hope you gain more improvement. Maybe talking to a psychologist or TMS-practicioner could help you with that. Sometimes it is difficult to see the elephant in the room yourself if you know what I mean.

    gl, Gigalos

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