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desperately want to believe

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by joe house, Mar 14, 2016.

  1. joe house

    joe house Peer Supporter

    I have been suffering for six years with herniated L5 T8 T9 upper back and now SI joint dysfunction along with piriformis problems. I have sever pain in my testcle, inguinal ligiments, hip, left Butt and siatica. Have not worked in six years and I have tried all but surgery because the doctors don't think it is bad enough. It has distroyed my life. I'm currently going to PT three times a week for the last four months and I started going to the chiropractor twice a week again.

    I just found out about Dr SARNO and I started to read his books. Im glad I found this web site. I'm at the point there just not much left for me to do but more of the same. I think I'm ready to believe. I see a lot of myself in his books but it sound to good to be true. I alway felt there was a mental component to my pain but I have trouble believing that it's causing it completely. The bigger issue is how do I get myself to stop doing my PT and chiropractor what if it's not TMS and I go backwards. I can go back there I'm still recovering from a bad flare up from last July.

    Is it all or nothing or can I still go to PT and chiropractor and see results? Has any one done this? Do you have any advise for me how to move forward with TMS. I can not find a TMS doctor in Milwaukee wi. I did have the Mayo clinic look at my MRI four months ago and they don't know why I'm in this much pain but my rehab doctor thinks it's my SI joints and something now with my hip I never had before go figure. Plus he thinks it's my l5 too. Help I really want to believe!
  2. Andy Bayliss

    Andy Bayliss TMS Coach & Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Joe,

    Welcome to the Forum and TMSwiki. You're among others who know your distress, pain, and we're here to offer support.

    So, you know Dr. Sarno's work, the next thing is to engage with it. There are two learning program resources at the Wiki.
    The first recommended to do is TMS Recovery Program, then do the Structured Education Program. These programs can guide you through the essence of Dr. Sarno's teachings, with practice. If you don't want to do these programs, at least read Dr. Sarno's work every day, journal about your personality and stressors, and read success stories. Even the same ones over and over.

    Yes, it all works, and I can say that for me Dr. Sarno's work was not believable at first either. Then I began to read and really inquire into my life applying Dr. Sarno's insights, and I went from crutches and limping and wheelchairs to skiing in about 3 or 4 months! I would never have believed it, if it didn't happen to me. Here's my story: http://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/foot-pain-remarkable-recovery.1988/

    My own view is to wean yourself off of everything but Dr. Sarno's approach. As you're aware, if we focus on the physical solutions, it re-enforces the symptoms. I can tell you after spending thousands of dollars on treatments that lasted from 5 minutes to 2 hours, that Dr. Sarno's approach will solve your pain like no Chiropractor or PT can. This is not medical advice, to be sure, but you have to ask yourself how effective what you've been doing really is.

    Perhaps really allowing the hopelessness of your situation using the methods you're used to will be enough to turn your mind to Sarno. It may be very hard to give up the hope in the physical cure, but this is perhaps to be felt and looked at. Good luck in your endeavor.

    Andy B
  3. Andy Bayliss

    Andy Bayliss TMS Coach & Beloved Grand Eagle

    Also Joe,
    Please consider doing some research on getting to a good TMS doctor on a plane if you have to, to get assessed. This can make a huge difference in your confidence, and therefore your progress.
  4. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi, Joe. Those like me who have healed from pain through TMS knowledge and belief find that it takes 100 belief in TMS, that repressed emotions are the cause our pain, in my case, severe back pain. Going the medication and chiro route didn't work. It would be great is you could see or even just talk to a TMS doctor, but most of us healed just through belief. That may be as much as a TMS doctor would tell you anyway.
  5. joe house

    joe house Peer Supporter

    Thank you for the encouragement. What you wrote is what I needed to hear. The more success stories I learn about the more real this is going to be to me. I look forward to learning yours. It's funny scenes I started reading about TMS I have felt like jogging these last two weeks but I say to myself are you nuts. I know I'm still torn but the will is there and one of these days I'm going to say the hell with it I'm jogging. I'm full of hope that there is an end to this pain thanks for the response Joe
  6. joe house

    joe house Peer Supporter

    Thanks for your response I would like to see a TMS doctor that's going to take more research but like you said they are just going to tell me what Im already thinking. It might however be what my unconcious minds needs to hear from a doctor.
  7. David88

    David88 Well known member

    Hi Joe,

    You didn't say how long it's been since you discovered Sarno, but it sounds like it's been only a few weeks. Be patient and give yourself time for the information to sink in.

    As far as weaning yourself from physical treatment and resuming activity, it's usually best to do that gradually as you build up confidence. You want to challenge the pain enough that you start building up some successes, but not so much that you get overwhelmed. Your best guide is what feels right to you at each step.

    You're on the right track. It can take some time. Be patient and keep at it.

  8. joe house

    joe house Peer Supporter

    Thanks David yes it has been two weeks so I'm just starting to wrap my mind around this whole idea. But I see so much of myself in this I hope I can do this. After six years of not being able to do much I lost alot of muscle. My arms and legs look like twigs I'm going to do what you said I think thats wise advise slow and steady is my plan. I noticed that when I'm out my back pain will start to kick in especially the farther I am from home. When I get with in four miles of my home I feel my pain starting to let up and I always thought that was strange. Home is safe I get that but it changed my pain level a lot. That's when I started to recognize the mental component of this. I have other examples to like when I'm in someone else's car my pain goes up or when I'm going to a place like a new doctors office I have never been too wow my pain goes through the roof. Does this sound like TMS Joe
  9. David88

    David88 Well known member

    Yes, absolutely it sounds like TMS. You are saying that your pain is associated with your changing emotions, more than what you're doing physically. That's a very important clue that is TMS.
  10. Gigi

    Gigi Well known member

    Welcome, Joe! It sounds like you're in the right place.
    I've had two severe bouts with TMS--about 20 years apart. I healed the first time by reading Sarno's book Healing Back PAin. It rang so true for me that that was all I needed. No more PT, back brace, or standing all day long because it was too painful to sit.
    The second time was from foot pain so severe I was in a wheelchair. I found this wiki and the SEP, and worked my way through that. I just returned from a hiking trip where we stayed in tents. This program gave me my life back. It can work for you too!
    Simplicity and MWsunin12 like this.
  11. joe house

    joe house Peer Supporter

    Thanks Gigi I will give it a try
  12. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    If the Mayo Clinic couldn't find anything wrong that's good! See a TMS practitioner for confirmation:


    Luke Fortney MD (Physician)
    Assistant Professor
    University of Wisconsin Integrative Medicine Program
    621 Science Drive
    Madison, WI 53711
    (608) 262-9355
    (800) 323-8942
    Insurance Accepted: Medicaid, Medicare, Humana, BCBS, Wellpoint

    Douglas Hoffman MD (Physician)
    11134 North State Road 77
    Hayward, WI, 54843
    (715) 634-5505
    1101 9th Street North
    Virginia, WI, 55792
    (715) 634-5505

    Roman Y. Kaplan, MD (Physician)
    Oshkosh, Wisconsin
    888 838-7051
    902 236-6311

    David Johnson, MD (Physician)
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    414 935-8000
    Insurance Accepted: Aetna, Cigna, Medicaid, Medicare, WellCare, Humana, BCBS, United Health Care, Wellpoint

    Nancy SelfridgeNancy Selfridge, MD
    Sun Prairie, Wisconsin
    Insurance Accepted: Medicaid, Medicare, BCBS, Wellpoint
  13. joe house

    joe house Peer Supporter

    Thanks for info. I tried the first doctor and the last doctor on the list and their office people blew me off because I was not in their medical group. Two of the doctors one in Hayward and Oshkosh I can not travel that far so I did not call. But I did talk to David Johnson MD for a while on the phone very nice guy unfortunely he was not taking new patients I was very impressed with him. Not sure where to get a TMS confirmation yet. Thanks for trying Tom
  14. Boston Redsox

    Boston Redsox Well Known Member


    You just got great advice from all and Tom nailed it down with is Mayo Clinic comment..its only been a few weeks..it took me 4 yrs to truly believe in TMS and I have only been on my healing journey for 6 months and I am going threw a divorce which is a huge stressor in my life. ...I have been to a tms Dr and once he said I had tms my brain still did not accept 100% for 2 more years.

    Dont put so much faith in a tms Dr....there is only really a few real TMS Dr worth going to ( this is just my opinion)...start the sep read, try to have a little fun everyday...stop the Chiro and PT slowly every week until you build up courage and start facing your demons...This is not a quick fix you are in the right place to heal. There is so many great people on this sight with a abundance of knowlege and wisdom much more than you will find at a dr office.

    You been medically cleared so move on. Baby steps and you will fall count on it.
  15. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    I only go to a doc when I need to, which averages maybe once every five to ten years. I have my Blue Cross insurance so I can go to any doc pretty much I think. I don't understand how "new age" medicine works. What's a "medical group"? You may have to pay out of pocket like $300-500 for a TMS "work-up". How much is getting back your life worth??? I've seen it many times at this board, where TMS'ers get hung up at this point and think it costs too much to see a TMS physician because their employer's plan doesn't cover it or some other such reason. Rob a bank and see the TMS doc and you may walk out with a new life. Get past the reception flunkies, they are often the gate-keepers for the doc and the doc has little or no control over them either. One office I've been to has a twirp at the gate who thinks he's God. Unfortunately that's the work environment today--you don't want the flight attendants flying the plane or the nurses doing the brain surgery. Keep banging at the doc's door and saving your pennies until you get in. If it's TMS you only need one appointment to confirm the structural aspect.. What's getting your life back worth to you??? Camp out in the waiting room until the doc sees you, the jails are full what are they going to do to you? TMS is such a small part of a TMS physician's practice they may be flattered to even find anyone willing to contemplate it and be examined for it.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2016
    Susan1111 and Boston Redsox like this.
  16. TG957

    TG957 Beloved Grand Eagle

    Joe, try Roger Gietzen, MD. He is on the TMSwiki list. He is a neurologist in Michigan. I sent him my medical records and he talked to me on Skype upon reviewing them. My symptoms are not typical TMS, so it was very helpful to speak to the TMS doctor who can debunk the doctorspeak, which is what he did for me after he saw records from bunch of specialists, MRI, x-ray etc....
  17. joe house

    joe house Peer Supporter

    Thanks TG957. It's always good to get referral.

    This following is for everyone reading this thread. I had a bad flare up about a week ago. I sat to long and the pressure on my left butt trigged sever pain in my hip, butt, left leg and testcle. It was a 9 on the pain scale I managed to get to bed and I could not move even an inch for 11 hours. The pain is so bad my vision gets blury and I will scream out when the real bad waves hit me. Once it lets up I'm left with pain around a 4 to 6 which I will take two tramadol and two Advil to help with but I'm left with the aftermath of deal with this flare up. Because I can not tell if I have sat up in bed to long or sat in my car to long until I get up then it hits me out of no where. This creates a lot of anxiety and fear. Once I pasted out in my father driveway from the pain another time I got stuck in my car for five hours. Ect.

    I had been struggling with the pain for five days and I decided to help my girlfriends co worker by teaching him how to drive so he can pass his driving test. We used my car and we drove around it went well. After he left it felt good to get out and enjoy the day but it felt even better to help someone. In one moment I felt good about myself that I put up with the pain and did something for someone else. In that same moment my pain went away. I felt great. I looked at the clock and I had taken my pain med over eight hours earlier so I don't think it was that. I told my physical therapist and she said that is how nerve pain works it can turn off that quick.

    I now have to decide if it was a nerve and my PT was right or was it because I felt good about myself. I'm the one who experienced it and I have to say it felt like my pain stopped when I felt better about myself and it let up the rest of the night. The next day I was not as good but then again I'm back to dealing with the fear.

    I'm made an appointment with my doctor so I can get an MRI of my pelvic. I know until I can squash this possibility of it being a trapped nerve I will not totally accept the TMS. I think even a TMS doctor would want to rule that out as well.
    I'm posting this because I think that the way the pain stopped Is incredible and it gave me hope when I was feeling very discouraged.
    Lavender likes this.
  18. joe house

    joe house Peer Supporter

    Thanks for your support although I have not jumped into the TMS with both feet I am dipping my toes in. I'm mentally getting ready to go to war with this and get my life back. I know my first step is to remove any mental stumbling blocks. Or do my best to reduce them. Sorry to hear about your divorce thanks for thinking about me when your going through such a hard time that says a lot about you.
  19. joe house

    joe house Peer Supporter

    Thanks for responding to my post. I don't get the whole medical BS either about not being able to see the TMS doctor. It would not have mater if I wanted to pay cash they said they would not see me. I ran into this before when I wanted to see a surgeon they took my insurance and the surgeon was oked with my insurance company too but because I was not from the local area they would not see me. I have not given up I will keep trying and I got some good advice here too. I think it's important to see a TMS doctor but I think reading about how people over come TMS is more important to me right now because everyone's stories sound like mine. Thanks again
    Tennis Tom likes this.
  20. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    Where there's a will there's a way, if you want to see this TMS doc, you probably can if you can communicate with him personally and get past the gate-keepers. Maybe ask to talk to him by phone or email him directly and you will get through. This is what happens when the gov gets involved with our bodies and creates rules and bureaucracies. When I was a kid and we lived in the country, my dad took me to our doc's office which was in the front of his house. When we moved to the city, our doc did house calls and once came to our apartment to treat my little brother and me for bad sunburns. Today there's reams of administration and bean counters tabulating Q-tips and documenting everything for billing and to keep from getting sued. Yes, there's lots of good KNOWLEDGE PENICILLIN here, that's all you've got to do if you have a mild dose of TMS, read the books and believe that the pain emanates from your gray matter and works its way outward.

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