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Delayed pain, potential stumbling block?

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by stevee620, Dec 23, 2015.

  1. stevee620

    stevee620 New Member

    All my pain from typing, painting , playing guitar (RSI) seem to come on hours if not the day after.
    Even typing this now i've set off an anxiety that it will be sore tomorrow. Could this be conditioning/programming.? Can TMS manifest itself in this way?
    Anyone else get this?. Any comments would be welcome.
  2. Andy Bayliss

    Andy Bayliss TMS Coach & Beloved Grand Eagle

    Yes Stevee620,

    I used to be conditioned to have foot pain the next day, if I did something strenuous the previous day.

    I remember being out struggling with my bike in the mud, straining my foot (because I had to), pushing as hard as I could. I had gotten stuck in the mud, in the desert, and could not continue to peddle (which I did instead of walk, because of the pain). I had to not only walk, but push the bike which I almost could not move, because there was so much clay accumulated on the tires.

    I had not used my feet and my muscles like that in over three years! Not even close to that level of exertion and strain. I remember the fear coming up that "for sure this is going to hurt like hell tomorrow." Then I sat down on my bike for a rest, and I just realized in that moment that I was experiencing a belief and a fear about the future. I realized the feet didn't "have to hurt" at all. I witnessed my beliefs, as beliefs, not the "truth."

    I was so happy the next day when there was no pain at all. This was a very important milestone for me.

    I wish you luck in this kind of significant break-through. I didn't plan it, but when I was caught in the thinking, I questioned it.

    If this kind of thing only happens once, it can really shake up the TM Syndrome. This is true especially if you contemplate the surprising exception to the pattern/conditioning, really notice it and let it undercut your beliefs. So keep looking for the exceptions, and believe me, my TMS was about delayed pain, as well as "real time pain."

    Andy B.
    breakfree likes this.
  3. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    It's all about the messages your brain is giving you. Anxiety is the perfect distraction, designed to keep you on your toes and watching out for the sabre tooth tiger. You have to be smarter than your primitive brain, and counteract these messages with a different, more constructive message. Such as "I can't possibly hurt myself doing this activity, so there is no reason to expect pain from it." Saying it out loud, or writing it down will make your new message more concrete and help you to not only believe it, but to actuate it. Neuroscientists have been telling us that this phenomenon is real, and it works.

    I had a very painful shoulder this summer/fall, told that it was "impinged" (on its way to "frozen", I think). There were things that my trainer had me doing at the gym that hurt, but they didn't hurt in a scary way, so I repeated that exact phrase to myself, told myself that whatever was going on, I was not injuring myself, but instead I was strengthening the whole shoulder, doing things that I should normally be able to do. There were a couple of specific exercises that were in fact way too painful, in a scary way, so we made adjustments and reduced the weight or the strain, but I still did them and did my self-talk. It took several months for the pain to completely go away, but I never ever had worse pain after going to the gym, and in fact I always felt better for several hours.

    That's the secret - being convinced, and then convincing your primitive brain, that you are not hurting yourself by doing whatever activity you are doing.
    mike2014 likes this.
  4. stevee620

    stevee620 New Member

    Thank you both for your replies and advice. I think that fear of bringing on the pain is a massive factor in my case. At this moment, i'm not sure whether to resume activities typing/playing my guitar/painting, or wait until the pain subsides a bit. However i feel that avoidance is fueling the pain and telling it that it's distraction is working.
  5. Andy Bayliss

    Andy Bayliss TMS Coach & Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Stephen,

    When I resumed activity, I did it very slowly at first. I did not want any excuses for pain. In other words my goal was to send messages that I was OK, but not activate the "pain distraction" around fear. My bicycle adventure was a real exception (and an accident). My program was that I started walking a few feet more each day, perhaps spending a few weeks working up to a quarter mile. This is my experience. I had some other experiences where I just felt fearless, and did a lot more. But those were born out of a surprising fearlessness in-the-moment, not from pushing myself to do more faster.

    Of course others push themselves harder. I think the main point is that activity sends a message to the brain that we don't believe the pain messages/fear. However you can push the envelope a little at a time is my advice. My own experience is "gentle is fine."

    Andy B.
  6. Boston Redsox

    Boston Redsox Well Known Member


    I have pretty much the same issues as you HAD.. , know that I have less fear of foot pain OR PAIN IN GENERAL ( which I still have ) when I get off my bike now, I been having hand pain and shoulder pain these are not really new but they are stronger…..trying to pull my attention back in the black hole.. A book that as help me a lot thx to Jan or Walt one of those generous members of this forum is the Book from Claire weeks regarding our nerves excellent advice and same modalities for treating our sensitized nerves as she would say or I think its ( NERVOUS ILLNESS).

    This XMAS as not really brought me anymore fear or pain, it actually got me on my bike to do 15 miles a day the last 2 days, also weather as been a trigger but my mind as come to grips that change of weather does not cause physical pain. As of today I have been of my pain meds for just over a week or more with really not drastic changes….but do to my increasing rise in BP ( TMS OF COURSE) my dr put me on meds for that and anxiety.

    I feel sleep is the best medicine for any tms condition without it our nerves and body are over worked over sensitized which causes or pain in be twice as bad as they maybe… Dr Claire Weeks and also Dr Hanscom state that sleep is the first protocol. Whether its by whatever modality its takes for you to sleep or meds. I feel strongly about this and my body also is the first to let me know.

  7. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi, Marco. Your long bike rides will help you a lot. I hope you have a country bike path along some peaceful scenery. But even my bike rides on streets in this Chicago suburb were pleasant. I pedaled while listening on my Walkman to my favorite music, mainly either classical or old songs.

    Happy New Year to you and all.
  8. Andy Bayliss

    Andy Bayliss TMS Coach & Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Marco,
    I agree sleep is so good for the nerves! I am lucky to enjoy good sleep. Your experience with Claire Weeks echos many of my clients'. I have not read her stuff, but anything that helps regulate our nervous system is so good. Exercise and sleep are good basics.
    Andy B.
  9. Boston Redsox

    Boston Redsox Well Known Member

    thx guys, happy new yr
  10. breakfree

    breakfree Peer Supporter

    Yes - I think it is most certainly conditioning/programming, I think in-directly your unconscious brain is telling you that if you type, or play the guitar = you WILL be in pain ! So you need to reprogramme and do some more (but not too much tms work)

    Yes - I think it defiantly manifest itself in this way - it does for me anyway

    It has been happening to me for the last 12 years, with me,my main 'symptom' is back/spinal pain, neck problems ect ... before I learnt about 'tms' I used to think to myself 'why am I doing this activity? it IS going to cause me pain/flare up tomorrow'
    low and behold, over the next few hours or days I most certainly would have the pain flare up !

    Now, though, (now I KNOW tms's game) I tell myself ''this activity CANNOT cause me pain tomorrow, as I AM structurally sound therefore I AM a 'normal person' this activity CANNOT possibly cause a 'normal person' to have pain !!!'

    Ive only been doing this for about 2 months, so Im still in the early stages, but it IS WORKING :)

    I NEVER thought I would be able to get to this stage - being able to almost control when I get pain - but Im THERE

    I still get times where the pain creeps up on me, and it hits me for 6 - like over the Christmas period - but I will myself to push through the pain (sometimes hardly able to walk the pain is so bad) but I DO it even though it hurts - and I tell the tms to ''go away and I lol at it'' (in my head) I also realise that maybe I need to relax/meditate, or journal and get my feelings out, or simply come on the forum and read some more - I realise the tms is 'talking' to me through my body - its 'telling me' my WORK it not yet finished, so I need to do some more - when I do that, the pain subsides !!! OR the pain 'shifts' to another place in my body, one day its back pain , the next day it could be wrist pain .... my body is screaming at me - DO THE WORK !!

    So, my work continues - I hope your does too, and I hope with all my heart that you can and you will get this tms under control.

    best wishes xx
    JanAtheCPA and mike2014 like this.
  11. stevee620

    stevee620 New Member

    Thank you breakfree that was a helpful and inspiring read. I just came on because i was going to post a question about journalling, and saw the alerts.
    I have two conditions, chronic pelvic pain and RSI (one is usually more dominant than the other at any given time). But i'm having real trouble journalling. I know i'm supposed to write about my emotions and not about the pain, but that is so hard. Because my emotions ARE the pain. I can't seem to separate the two.
    Its like i've had these conditions for so long that i can't see the wood for the trees. (nobody say, well write about the trees then :)). So, i feel a bit stuck at the mo!
  12. Andy Bayliss

    Andy Bayliss TMS Coach & Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Stephen,
    The main point of journaling is to bring to consciousness and expression what lies a little deeper... You might just try saying the things out loud to your self as a start. And continue to express out loud about the fear and pain as these arise (if they do). This will work more deeply than simply "thinking things."
    Andy B.
    JanAtheCPA likes this.
  13. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    Actually, Steve, the pain is the distraction that your brain is feeding you so that you do not access the real emotions. Start listening to what your brain is telling you - it's all about fear, fear and negativity. The goal is to really hear those negative and self-defeating messages - that's when you can start changing them.

    Pain is not an emotion. Fear is not an emotion. Anxiety and depression are not emotions. They are distractions, used by your primitive brain as survival techniques that are no longer relevant in the modern world. And they are sitting at the most shallow level of your awareness. You have to go a lot deeper than that.

    Andy is right on when he says that just "thinking" about these things is not good enough. Thoughts just get all jumbled up when they arise in our busy brains - and I think that TMS brains are busier than most, when you add on all the negative and unconstructive fears and anxieties we are prone to.

    Journaling works to get at the deep stuff, and vocalizing works to change the negative messages in your brain.
    stevee620, Simplicity and mike2014 like this.
  14. mike2014

    mike2014 Beloved Grand Eagle

    I love this Jan, I wish I could like this more than once.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2015
    JanAtheCPA likes this.

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