Could TMS cause OCD?

stevow7

stevow7

Well known member
hello guys! so after curing back pain i developed something new. OCD like i never experienced before. im not going to mentioned the little ones but the big ones and the one that i need to reduce or eliminate completely. so the one that worries me the most is taking long showers (30 minutes and i used to do it in 10) and brushing and flossing teeth in 30 minutes. all because i constantly wash and repeat bodyparts when showering thinking it needs more cleaning or theres bubbles left. now to the big one that worries me a lot. going to bed. ive never experienced this until now, so when i go to bed i constantly check my quilt to see if theres something or if its messy or not in “excellent” condition to use, like i watch how the lines are and if its organized if not i fix it and watch again, this takes 30 minutes and if i wake up to go to the bathroom i do the same. now the worst part. i sleep in fetto or fetal position. now when i get to bed i have to organize my clothes and feel relaxed and comfy (something i didnt used to do) and fixing the quilt so it feels comfy and when getting into fetal position if its not comfy or like i want it i go again from start and do it again. i just used to jump in bed and get into fetal position without worries. now if i dont feel comfy i just start again. i try to fight it but the anxiety was high. i got an appointment with psychologist in 20 minutes but need advice from you guys. thanks and happy new year!

sorry for my english
 
do i need a therapist or psychologist for this? so today i went to one and was not fully convinced.
so i have a lottt of obsession with a lotttt of things but doc only wanted to go slowly reducing max of 3 at the time. i have to make a list of all my ocd from worst to normal ones and slowly take care of them reducing times i do them until i do 1 or none. now she said a max of 3 until i complete the goal. before this i was already reducing ones or eliminated a few but now that i focus on the big ones the other ones that i already beat wants to kick in high speed. or the ones i was reducing wants to kick in. my mind is telling me to focus on the 3 and let the other ocd that i beat or was reducing kick in. i didnt ask if i should not let them go in when dealing with the new 3 ones. she said 3 because if i do them all i would go nuts.

she told me to read this. https://imgur.com/a/Kvv6nl6 (Imgur)
 
Not only Can TMS be OCD. For all intents and purposes TMS IS OCD. It is OCD of the Body.

All of the stuff you describe is called 'Binding the anxiety'. The person suffering from OCD chooses some exterior condition e.g. Cleanliness, germs, doors, locks, counting things that don't matter (sidewalk squares,etc). Some sort of intrusive thought Keeps running like a broken record in their brain. To distract us from the terrifying thought that we can't control we 'Bind' (aka CONTROL) something we can control. We go through some sort of ritual to ensure we have 'taken care' of whatever we have chosen as the binder.
The thought pattern behind it might even have a modicum of rationality (EG. It is a good idea to be relatively neat, clean) but just as that intrusive thought is actually Crazy, so is the anxiety binding ritual and it exits sanity and is just as insane as the thought.

Between the rituals and intrusive thoughts I LIVED IN HELL. I was certain I was
A. Going to Hell because I was dirty
B. Batshit crazy and afraid to talk about it with anyone
C. The Most miserable thing I have ever experienced....period

It served the same exact purpose as TMS. Rather than obsessing on the pain I couldn't manage I spent all my time dealing with things that had Nothing to do with anything (except my own private little slice of HELL).

After the resolution of the majority of my pain symptoms I sought psychological help about my extreme anger that no longer had a cover. By some stroke of divine intervention I ended up with a Shrink who actually did his grad work at UCLA on OCD. We went back through my life and documented the majority of the episodes and their manifestations. He taught me all about it and gave me tools to arrest an episode as it began....exactly like what Sarno has done for us with Pain. Just like TMS it is triggered by stuff going on in the unconscious that scares us...so we generate a 'problem' to distract ourselves and an elaborate ritual to occupy our attention

Dealing with the OCD . It seemed insurmountable and their were times I despaired of ever being 'normal'....and it went away easier than the TMS pain.
 
We must have been posting at the same time. Hmmm. Working with someone is a good idea... I just also had to look at , work on the underlying cause. The OCD is a symptom, not a cause. As I worked on the underlying real world stuff, the symptoms went away (JUst like TMS)
 
Steve Ozanich writes at length about OCD and connection to TMS in The Great Pain Deception. Similar to the above posts, Ozanich clearly says yes- it is a psychological manifestation/equivalent of TMS, and that the underlying psychological tension that fuels mindbody symptoms is virtually identical to that which drives obsessive thoughts + compulsive behavior. Serves as a defense mechanism to block emerging thoughts/feelings that are deemed a threat by the ego. In the same way someone can be distracted from unpleasant unconscious thoughts by a migraine or sharp leg pain, he/she can also have their attention subconsciously diverted by intrusive unpleasant thoughts (obsessions) and resulting repetitive behaviors (compulsions). In the end of Ozanich's book, he lists OCD as one of many TMS 'equivalents' (methods used by the brain to divert attention). He writes that OCD is a "coping strategy—repetitive behavior utilized as an avoidance mechanism. TMS-prone individuals often bounce their legs in the air when sitting down, or check and recheck locks and windows, or clean repetitively in order to cope through the moment" (reference below).

And as Basbeall65 points out above, the two (OCD and TMS) are largely one and the same. A person suffering from traditional OCD may obsessively worry about the sink, or whether the door is locked, whether they are clean, or whether their shoes are tied, all serving a function of trying to manage anxiety. The TMS manifestation of OCD thinking is to obsessively focus on and ruminate over the body ('what is wrong with me,' 'I need to see a doctor,' 'do i have xyz illness,' etc). Steve also writes that individuals dealing with TMS symptoms tend to "harbor perfectionistic, driven, or obsessive personality traits." Working with a therapist is almost always a great idea, if your situation allows for it. Otherwise, following the guidance of Sarno, Ozanich and others may help you get relief from these symptoms.d

Ozanich, Steven Ray. The Great Pain Deception: Faulty Medical Advice Is Making Us Worse (p. 239 &). Silver Cord Records, Inc.
Ozanich, Steven Ray. The Great Pain Deception: Faulty Medical Advice Is Making Us Worse (p. 62). Silver Cord Records, Inc.
 
Baseball65 said:
Not only Can TMS be OCD. For all intents and purposes TMS IS OCD. It is OCD of the Body.

All of the stuff you describe is called 'Binding the anxiety'. The person suffering from OCD chooses some exterior condition e.g. Cleanliness, germs, doors, locks, counting things that don't matter (sidewalk squares,etc). Some sort of intrusive thought Keeps running like a broken record in their brain. To distract us from the terrifying thought that we can't control we 'Bind' (aka CONTROL) something we can control. We go through some sort of ritual to ensure we have 'taken care' of whatever we have chosen as the binder.
The thought pattern behind it might even have a modicum of rationality (EG. It is a good idea to be relatively neat, clean) but just as that intrusive thought is actually Crazy, so is the anxiety binding ritual and it exits sanity and is just as insane as the thought.

Between the rituals and intrusive thoughts I LIVED IN HELL. I was certain I was
A. Going to Hell because I was dirty
B. Batshit crazy and afraid to talk about it with anyone
C. The Most miserable thing I have ever experienced....period

It served the same exact purpose as TMS. Rather than obsessing on the pain I couldn't manage I spent all my time dealing with things that had Nothing to do with anything (except my own private little slice of HELL).

After the resolution of the majority of my pain symptoms I sought psychological help about my extreme anger that no longer had a cover. By some stroke of divine intervention I ended up with a Shrink who actually did his grad work at UCLA on OCD. We went back through my life and documented the majority of the episodes and their manifestations. He taught me all about it and gave me tools to arrest an episode as it began....exactly like what Sarno has done for us with Pain. Just like TMS it is triggered by stuff going on in the unconscious that scares us...so we generate a 'problem' to distract ourselves and an elaborate ritual to occupy our attention

Dealing with the OCD . It seemed insurmountable and their were times I despaired of ever being 'normal'....and it went away easier than the TMS pain.
Click to expand...


dang! the thing is, once i healed back pain it just went all of a sudden. i never experienced ocd or atleast not like this. i wake up and go to sleep all day with ocd 24/7. i can't even play or go outside with friends thinking of ocd. its controlling my life.
its so damn hard to deal with this because its just too much. constantly washing my hands is one thing, but interrupting sleeping? yeah i need to get on the road to cure this and i will! im positive. did you by any chance took medication? i believe 100% in tms and i dont know if i should take medications like ssris or therapy because of my believes. heck i went today and she told me to take the 3 most dangerous ocd and reduce it little by little until they are gone. uhm what? i thought ocd was a ritual, you expose it and eliminate it even if anxiety kicks in. i tried reducing it before and it work one day but the next i go back to were i was or worst. but then the next day i reduce it and its like a never ending circle. sometimes i might reduce it for days and then it kicks in big time.
 
Samwise_Gamgee said:
Steve Ozanich writes at length about OCD and connection to TMS in The Great Pain Deception. Similar to the above posts, Ozanich clearly says yes- it is a psychological manifestation/equivalent of TMS, and that the underlying psychological tension that fuels mindbody symptoms is virtually identical to that which drives obsessive thoughts + compulsive behavior. Serves as a defense mechanism to block emerging thoughts/feelings that are deemed a threat by the ego. In the same way someone can be distracted from unpleasant unconscious thoughts by a migraine or sharp leg pain, he/she can also have their attention subconsciously diverted by intrusive unpleasant thoughts (obsessions) and resulting repetitive behaviors (compulsions). In the end of Ozanich's book, he lists OCD as one of many TMS 'equivalents' (methods used by the brain to divert attention). He writes that OCD is a "coping strategy—repetitive behavior utilized as an avoidance mechanism. TMS-prone individuals often bounce their legs in the air when sitting down, or check and recheck locks and windows, or clean repetitively in order to cope through the moment" (reference below).

And as Basbeall65 points out above, the two (OCD and TMS) are largely one and the same. A person suffering from traditional OCD may obsessively worry about the sink, or whether the door is locked, whether they are clean, or whether their shoes are tied, all serving a function of trying to manage anxiety. The TMS manifestation of OCD thinking is to obsessively focus on and ruminate over the body ('what is wrong with me,' 'I need to see a doctor,' 'do i have xyz illness,' etc). Steve also writes that individuals dealing with TMS symptoms tend to "harbor perfectionistic, driven, or obsessive personality traits." Working with a therapist is almost always a great idea, if your situation allows for it. Otherwise, following the guidance of Sarno, Ozanich and others may help you get relief from these symptoms.d

Ozanich, Steven Ray. The Great Pain Deception: Faulty Medical Advice Is Making Us Worse (p. 239 &). Silver Cord Records, Inc.
Ozanich, Steven Ray. The Great Pain Deception: Faulty Medical Advice Is Making Us Worse (p. 62). Silver Cord Records, Inc.
Click to expand...


wow good read! thanks a bunch. i do however have a doubt. therapist wants me to go to a psychiatrist (probably medication) and she told me to read this book. https://imgur.com/zuZ29D3 (Imgur) its a worksheet. and this makes me think that maybe im going against Sarnos? im a 100% believer in tms. but i can't seem to heal ocd like i did with back pain (ignoring fear or pain). i also have, read Steve's book, "The Great Pain Deception".
 
First of all, I have compassion for you and don't worry... IT DOES Go away!!!!!
Your OCD episode has probably replaced your pain as your distraction. That means that there is something in your unconscious that is still kicking against the pricks. Family issues? The Holidays? New Job? Kids? Been ruminating on mortality and life? Relationship? Lack of relationship?

The Dr. I saw who helped me explained OCD from a Physical standpoint. He said that PET scans have shown that when someone who has OCD is involved in an 'episode' there is an 'electrical storm' going on in a part of the brain where ordinarily only 'the lights' should be on. There are two ways to stop the storm. One, is SSRI's (prozac or one of it's cousins) . The second way is called 'Stop' therapy. I chose that way and it was very effective HOWEVER My ocd wasn't that bad at the time of our interaction (I was there for anger issues)

"Stop' Therapy is nigh identical to the same sort of de-conditioning we do to get rid of TMS. I was told that whenever I caught myself in a ritual or having the intrusive repetitive thought to say "STOP" Out Loud and immediately go to a different task. That meant if I was say Painting and I find my mind occupied about something; 'STOP!' Immediately go to the sink and start doing dishes. 15 minutes later I notice I am going through a ritual; 'STOP', go read a book. I am reading the book and the Thought comes back ;'STOP' and go take the dog for a walk.

This is like taking a 16D Nail and SCRATCHING the record so it can't play anymore. It also made me really be able to distinguish between normal concerns and the self-immolation that is OCD. I scratched the record BEFORE it could get to the 'skip' that makes it repeat!

It wasn't easy .... but it was a lot better than the same ol' same ol' of the carousel of OCD. And it worked quickly, and I still ocassionally use it if I find myself drifting into morbid reflection or any sort of negative mind frame, not necessarily OCD

Now... that aside, there is Nothing wrong with taking meds. We all have different biologies and circumstances. BUT!!! I notice in this whole string you haven't once mentioned what is going on in your life that could be TRIGGERING and NECESSITATING a symptom. No therapy or drug can create awareness. They only deal with the symptoms. Sarno occasionally prescribed painkillers but he himself said, he didn't treat pain; His methods and teaching are to prevent it from happening by making it unnecessary

Just like I needed my pain to keep me from the truth about my very bad marriage and Career choices, I needed the OCD to keep me from the horrific Loneliness and terror of being a virtual orphan(Dad died, Mom left). The Doctor I worked with helped me look at that. Once I looked at it, it didn't have any power anymore. . and the symptoms went away. They will for you too
 
Baseball65 said:
First of all, I have compassion for you and don't worry... IT DOES Go away!!!!!
Your OCD episode has probably replaced your pain as your distraction. That means that there is something in your unconscious that is still kicking against the pricks. Family issues? The Holidays? New Job? Kids? Been ruminating on mortality and life? Relationship? Lack of relationship?

The Dr. I saw who helped me explained OCD from a Physical standpoint. He said that PET scans have shown that when someone who has OCD is involved in an 'episode' there is an 'electrical storm' going on in a part of the brain where ordinarily only 'the lights' should be on. There are two ways to stop the storm. One, is SSRI's (prozac or one of it's cousins) . The second way is called 'Stop' therapy. I chose that way and it was very effective HOWEVER My ocd wasn't that bad at the time of our interaction (I was there for anger issues)

"Stop' Therapy is nigh identical to the same sort of de-conditioning we do to get rid of TMS. I was told that whenever I caught myself in a ritual or having the intrusive repetitive thought to say "STOP" Out Loud and immediately go to a different task. That meant if I was say Painting and I find my mind occupied about something; 'STOP!' Immediately go to the sink and start doing dishes. 15 minutes later I notice I am going through a ritual; 'STOP', go read a book. I am reading the book and the Thought comes back ;'STOP' and go take the dog for a walk.

This is like taking a 16D Nail and SCRATCHING the record so it can't play anymore. It also made me really be able to distinguish between normal concerns and the self-immolation that is OCD. I scratched the record BEFORE it could get to the 'skip' that makes it repeat!

It wasn't easy .... but it was a lot better than the same ol' same ol' of the carousel of OCD. And it worked quickly, and I still ocassionally use it if I find myself drifting into morbid reflection or any sort of negative mind frame, not necessarily OCD

Now... that aside, there is Nothing wrong with taking meds. We all have different biologies and circumstances. BUT!!! I notice in this whole string you haven't once mentioned what is going on in your life that could be TRIGGERING and NECESSITATING a symptom. No therapy or drug can create awareness. They only deal with the symptoms. Sarno occasionally prescribed painkillers but he himself said, he didn't treat pain; His methods and teaching are to prevent it from happening by making it unnecessary

Just like I needed my pain to keep me from the truth about my very bad marriage and Career choices, I needed the OCD to keep me from the horrific Loneliness and terror of being a virtual orphan(Dad died, Mom left). The Doctor I worked with helped me look at that. Once I looked at it, it didn't have any power anymore. . and the symptoms went away. They will for you too
Click to expand...


wow just wow. thanks so much for decribing your situation. well im actually going to try your method and my therapist method. she once said "what are your current stressors" well my grandmother who i live with is one stressor because she thinks everything i do is childish (ocd) and she just doesn't understand. another stressor is fitness and nutrition. i have a very picky and established diet and fitness (trying to atleast go 3 days a week) and the third one or maybe the biggest stressor actually is like i mentioned here before. i have a pituitary tumor and i also have low hormones level Low testosterone (like clinically extremely low), low LH, LOW FSH, high SHBG, low estradiol, low IGF-1, low DHEA-S and the list goes on. it bothers me that i have dry hands, cracked hands because maybe my thyroid is not working properly (low t3) or because of my estradiol is low (5) which causes symptoms like this, i have to get a jacket always to go out because im always cold. im contantly going to the bathroom because i need to urinate literally every 30 minutes, and well the other symptoms you guys know and no need to mention them. the thing is, i keep jumping from doc to doc to find the solution and i still dont have a real diagnose. im 26 and they all just say TRT, testosterone injection and why would i do that if i don't know the cause? pituitary tumor? my acth my prolactin and my igf-1 are not that skyhigh so its not secreting anything (acth is a bit high but this might be due to stress) im depressed and contantly stressed because i can't find a solution to my problem and can't find doctors here in puerto rico. i dont know if this was a mistake, but i did my research (a lot) on trt and well i kinda don't accept bad protocols, because doctors atleast ive seen just prescribe trt with protocols that are just weird and from what i study it will be worst.

other thing are meds. studies have shown that ssris makes hormones worst. and this makes me think twice about meds.

as you can see, the internet is another stressor.

the main reason i didn't typed my stressors its because if i mention the hormone parts people around here might see me "weirdly" and i want to have a good relationship with you guys :D
 
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so basically just to know, we are suppost to ignore our obsessions like if it was pain? like if i dont check my bed before sleep the correct way i get anxiety. by ignoring or reducing the frequench i would eliminate this (fear of some bugs or the bed is not in a correct position) also constantly washing my hands or switch (lights) because i might get bacterias or get a virus.
 
stevow7 said:
so basically just to know, we are suppost to ignore our obsessions like if it was pain? like if i dont check my bed before sleep the correct way i get anxiety. by ignoring or reducing the frequench i would eliminate this (fear of some bugs or the bed is not in a correct position) also constantly washing my hands or switch (lights) because i might get bacterias or get a virus.
Click to expand...

You’ve got the mindset that this is all unnecessary, right? You realize almost everyone else doesn’t do these things, yet no virus, no bugs, etc. you just feel this compulsion.

Recognize this is an unhealthy behavior in a logical way. That probably isn’t going to make it stop. Next step is to uncover the emotions and such that get you into a mental state that makes you compulsive.

Focus on the things these compulsions are trying to distract you from. Not to eliminate the ocd, but because you want to be happy. That’s the end result of being “cured” from TMS. TMS is a form of depression. Sometimes you think it’s normal because it’s bexome your new normal.
 
Tms_joe said:
You’ve got the mindset that this is all unnecessary, right? You realize almost everyone else doesn’t do these things, yet no virus, no bugs, etc. you just feel this compulsion.

Recognize this is an unhealthy behavior in a logical way. That probably isn’t going to make it stop. Next step is to uncover the emotions and such that get you into a mental state that makes you compulsive.

Focus on the things these compulsions are trying to distract you from. Not to eliminate the ocd, but because you want to be happy. That’s the end result of being “cured” from TMS. TMS is a form of depression. Sometimes you think it’s normal because it’s bexome your new normal.
Click to expand...


thanks!
 
stevow7 said:
so basically just to know, we are suppost to ignore our obsessions like if it was pain? like if i dont check my bed before sleep the correct way i get anxiety. by ignoring or reducing the frequench i would eliminate this (fear of some bugs or the bed is not in a correct position) also constantly washing my hands or switch (lights) because i might get bacterias or get a virus.
Click to expand...

I'm still very much in a learning process. Maybe sometime you're supposed to figure out the underlying cause of the OCD and sometimes it just helps to ignore it. (Just my newbie opinion. Could be all wrong based on others comments). After 24 years of being sick with CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome) and a bunch of other symptoms, I only recently discovered that a HUGE part of my fatigue is my OCD. I didn't think my OCD was that bad compared to other people. But it is constantly taxing me mentally at pretty much every moment. It's so sad I didn't realize this literally decades ago.

Also, I notice there is a similarity between my various symptoms and my OCD, in the avoidance part. I don't fully understand it yet. But there's a parallel between how I avoid doing things because of my physical symptoms and how I avoid touching things because of my OCD.
 
Tms_joe said:
You’ve got the mindset that this is all unnecessary, right? You realize almost everyone else doesn’t do these things, yet no virus, no bugs, etc. you just feel this compulsion.

Recognize this is an unhealthy behavior in a logical way. That probably isn’t going to make it stop. Next step is to uncover the emotions and such that get you into a mental state that makes you compulsive.

Focus on the things these compulsions are trying to distract you from. Not to eliminate the ocd, but because you want to be happy. That’s the end result of being “cured” from TMS. TMS is a form of depression. Sometimes you think it’s normal because it’s bexome your new normal.
Click to expand...
Hi, Could you explain how TMS is a form of depression? Or link me to where there's an explanation? Thanks!
 
update. so i went today to my therapist and she said i need a psyquiatrist and possibly will need medication. i believe in tms and im a bit anxious about taking the pills because it might go against sarnos theory. also im scared because it might put my hormonal issues into more trouble :/ im already worrying about this and the appointment is due in one month lol
 
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