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Could it be TMS and a disc issue?

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by David B, Dec 12, 2013.

  1. David B

    David B Well known member

    Hi All,
    I'm looking for some supportive ideas on my situation. I had my first MBS TMS symptoms in April 2012 in my right glute. It took 8 months it to increase to point where I thought it was more than the aches of a 46 yr old weekend warrior. My journey led me to a caring and conservative neurosurgeon in February 2013. An MRI showed (surprise, surprise) a herniated L4-L5 disc that is compressing the nerve roots that corresponds to the areas I have leg pain. Fortunately the surgeon has continued to put surgery as a last option. Along the way I was introduced to Dr Sarno's books and found Dr. Schubiner and Dr. Hanscom's books.

    I became convinced I have MBS/TMS, stopped physical therapy, started journaling, working w Dr Denkin who I found on this site and was making slow progress. Then 4 weeks ago I woke up in such excruciating pain I could barely get out of bed. I assumed something really severe must have happened to the disc when I was working out the day before because I had more pain at one point than usual. I since started the Mckinzie method of physical therapy but I have been mostly in bed since then, though I am improving. The neurosurgeon called two days ago with the results of a second MRI: the disc is basically unchanged!

    That said I do have some reduced reflex in the right ankle and some weakness in the big toe, neither were there before. I see I wasn't thoroughly convinced that MBS/TMS was the sole cause but I am convinced more than ever that I have MBS and need to address my repressed emotions even more directly.

    It has been suggested that the disc issue is real but so is the MBS/TMS.

    Any thought or experiences would be much appreciated.

    Be well.
  2. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    It sure sounds like your pain is from TMS and not structural.
    Dr Sarno and Steve Ozanich say in their books that we should not take to our beds with pain
    but believe 100 percent that it's from TMS repressed emotions and get up and resume normal
    activities. Live through the pain, think TMS, follow the TMS healing techniques in the
    TMSWiki forums and you'll be pain-free. It's normal in TMS for pain to move around
    until it finally stops.
    Keep posting here. Those who have healed, like I have, are here to help you.
    Msunn likes this.
  3. David B

    David B Well known member

    Thank you for the supportive words Walt. It really makes a difference knowing this group exists. I know a key step for me is to have 100% conviction and I know I'm not quite there yet. Part of me still just wants to be rid of the pain and wants a surgeon to just take it away. Is this a common struggle for people?
  4. Lori

    Lori Well known member

    The disc issue is absolutely real. That does not mean it is the cause of your pain.

    I have herniated discs. I followed Dr. Sarno's program and went from being bedbound to back to work in two weeks. (you can read my story in success stories or my profile page). Back pain was not my only symptom.

    You can heal yourself too!
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  5. David B

    David B Well known member

    Thanks Lori. I will check it out. I'm still needing some reinforcement or at a minimum avoiding people who stoke the few remaining conditioned doubts those little gremlins the child id and parent ego occasionally throw at me. They also will latch onto outside stimuli. Success stories are great reinforcement.

    congratulations on your recovery and be well.
  6. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    David, Lori's success story sure is wonderful. From bedridden to back to work in two weeks. I don't know if she's a professional
    lady wrestler or just works at a computer, but that's amazing healing.

    Yes, darn it. It does take TOTAL belief in TMS before we heal completely.
    We wish a doctor could do it with a pill but it takes more than that, it takes work on our part.

    One thing that could help is repeating affirmations... positive mantras like
    "I already feel well and free of pain."
    "Every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better" (an old one, but it still works and has for me)

    Try to tune out anyone who tells you TMS doesn't work. IT DOES and HAS for hundreds and hundreds of people.

    It's good to be reminded of how others have healed through TMS repressed emotions.
    Go to www.amazon.com books and read the reviews by people who read Dr. Sarno's book, Healing Back Pain.
    They tell how just reading it got them pain-free. For others it took a while, and they admit it was because
    they didn't believe 100 percent in TMS.
    Msunn and David B like this.
  7. David B

    David B Well known member

    Yes Walt the affirmations are becoming important. I have written a core of the and taped them to my mirror so I see them in the morning and in the evening. I like the I already feel well and free of pain. I will on board that . Thank you for the idea
    Msunn likes this.
  8. Anne Walker

    Anne Walker Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hello. 18 years ago I had a ruptured L4 L5 disc with a pinched nerve. I was in so much pain I could not sleep and I had severe sciatica in my right calf. After several months of conservative treatment(including reading and working with one of Dr Sarno's books) I opted for a lamenectomy. I would say the surgery lessoned my pain about 50% and I was in chronic back pain for several more years. Since that time, almost 20 years now, I have had numerous chronic pain conditions - occipital neuralgia, brain fog, chronic fatigue, plantar faciitis, anxiety, panic attacks... I have explored so many treatments, East, West, dietary, alternative, therapy, traditional...rarely have I heard of a possible treatment that I haven't explored. For seven months now I have been working on TMS. I have ruptured discs in my neck. But after a lot of reflection I have opted not to have surgery and at this point I am not even considering it as a potential option ever. I have pain in my occipital area as we speak but I have had periods the last few months when the pain has moved around and I have not had any pain in my neck at all. If it were truly structural, how would this be possible? It actually took me several months before the pain moved from my head/neck. I am disappointed that it has returned the last few weeks but at least I know that if it moved before, it can move again, and if it can move, it is possible that it can move away completely and I can be pain free someday. I have thought a lot about my initial back pain, the surgery and all the years of pain since. We cannot go back and regret is no good, but with everything I know now, if I could do it all again, I would have spent more time exploring Dr Sarnos work. Perhaps it could have saved me years and years of chronic pain. It just felt so structural that it did not seem possible that it could have been created out of a psychological need. But I am sure now, it was. And yes, I think I wanted to believe that a surgeon could just fix it and take the pain away. I think that is perhaps very common and some people do feel better after surgery. But if TMS is the root cause, it will just surface again in some other way.
    Ellen, Eric "Herbie" Watson and Msunn like this.
  9. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    Anne im so happy to hear from you. Hope you post more so we can get you back to being pain free. like you said if it moved before. It will move again.
    Are you still journaling about current pressures when you have them and are you keeping the focus off the body. If so do you practice focusing.
    I found when a pain came back on me early in the year that the focusing really helped me to get it off my mind.
    Bless You
  10. David B

    David B Well known member

    Herbie, what is focusing?
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  11. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    Focusing is when you relax and then instead of not thinking of the pain you actually do think of it without judgement and without fear, even send it love, with your awareness in the area of pain while being calm and in control -- just knowing its there and you ok with it and not angry , you ponder it and then feel it if possible in your mindbody. When you do this often the pain or anxiety will decrease and often dissipate.

    I started with this one but the above is how I've progressed too-

    Start by just relaxing, then meditate by telling your mind to relax. Then tell your face to relax- then the neck and shoulders all the way to your toes. Take your time and do this for like 10 minutes. Then when your totally relaxed repeat the words, im calm, and feel yourself calm even more. Then say silently im relaxed and feel yourself relax more, then say im patient and feel the patience. Then say im confident and feel the confidence- Then just lie there and feel the calmness in your mind body for like 2 or 3 minutes.

    At this time when your ready notice your issue or pain- don't try to judge it or make it go away -- just notice its there and don't join to it, just notice it. At this time think of a word that might relate to your dis-comfort -- just think and let it become - don't try to rush it. When that word is there then think of the word and notice again the dis-comfort. Here as you focus back and forth between the feeling and word or
    word and feeling you'll start to notice the tension letting up. Just be with this for a few moments till the discomfort dissipates- don't try to rush anything, just be. This will help you get a better understanding of focusing as you read over and over Eugene's method- learn from it each day till its complete-

    Here is Eugene Gendlins Style - Mines above - thanks David B.

    Focusing-Eugene T Gendlin

    1. 1. Clearing a space What I will ask you to do will be silent, just to yourself. Take a moment just to relax. All right—
      now, inside you, I would like you to pay attention inwardly, in your body, perhaps in your stomach or chest. Now see
      what comes there when you ask, "How is my life going? What is the main thing for me right now?" Sense within
      your body. Let the answers come slowly from this sensing. When some concern comes, DO NOT GO INSIDE IT.
      Stand back, say "Yes, that's there. I can feel that, there." Let there be a little space between you and that. Then ask
      what else you feel. Wait again, and sense. Usually there are several things.
      2. Felt sense From among what came, select one personal problem to focus on. DO NOT GO INSIDE IT. Stand back from it.
      Of course, there are many parts to that one thing you are thinking about—too many to think of each one alone. But
      you can feel all of these things together. Pay attention there where you usually feel things, and in there you can get a sense of what all of the problem feels like. Let yourself feel the unclear sense of all of that.
      3. Handle What is the quality of this unclear felt sense? Let a word, a phrase, or an image come up from the felt sense itself. It might be a quality-word, like tight, sticky, scary, stuck, heavy, jumpy, or a phrase, or an image. Stay with the quality of the felt sense till something fits it just right.
      4. Resonating Go back and forth between the felt sense and the word (phrase, or image). Check how they resonate with each other. See if there is a little bodily signal that lets you know there is a fit. To do it, you have to have the felt sense there again, as well as the word.
      Let the felt sense change, if it does, and also the word or picture, until they feel just right in capturing the quality of the felt sense.
      5. Asking Now ask: What is it, about this whole problem, that makes this quality (which you have just named or pictured)?
      Make sure the quality is sensed again, freshly, vividly (not just remembered from before). When it is here again, tap it, touch it, be with it, asking, "What makes the whole problem so ____?" Or you ask, "What is in this sense?"
      If you get a quick answer without a shift in the felt sense, just let that kind of answer go by. Return your attention to your body and freshly find the felt sense again. Then ask it again.
      Be with the felt sense till something comes along with a shift, a slight "give" or release.
      6. Receiving Receive whatever comes with a shift in a friendly way. Stay with it a while, even if it is only a slight release. Whatever comes, this is only one shift; there will be others. You will probably continue after a little while,but stay here for a few moments.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2013
    BruceMC likes this.
  12. David B

    David B Well known member

    Herbie, thanks for the detailed explanation. I will work with this and do some reading about it as well. Any experience with how often one should do this.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.
  13. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    Take your time and be real patient. Do 1 step at a time in your thoughts as you read Eugene Gendlins style OK. It a little more wordy but his style is a good one for starting on. Do it like 2-3 times a day or like 2- 3 times per week till you get used to it then up it to two or three times per day till you get well. Remember combine this with tms therapy and reap the benefits but make sure to practice Eugenes style -- then my styles when you advance OK.
    Thanks. Bless You
    I know it doesn't look like much but its an Art.:)
    You actually learn to control your emotions -- cool huh
  14. David B

    David B Well known member

    Herbie, that is what I seek. I will work the process and do my best to process the work.

    Happy New Year! May you be well through out it and happy before you have a reason.
    Eric "Herbie" Watson likes this.

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