Core Muscle

[crimslock]

Since learning about TMS and mainly watching Sarno DVD, how lifting bending ect section of DVD talks about it can't hurt you, i was wondering if its true that you need strong core muscles before getting into weight training?? My first back sxs started when i was lifting free weights(2009). So since i have over come my back pain (thanks to Sarno and this site) well almost over come my back pain, i can't get rid of my burning sxs,, i can now run, walk, ride bike and lift heavy stuff again, i want to over come my last fear of weight training. I have just starting lifting light weights (2 days now) and was wondering if its true what the personal trainers say about the importance of having a strong core? Should i build up my core muscle first or is that all not true and is it as Sarno said on his DVD if you can lift something then its not too heavy for you..

 

[Eric "Herbie" Watson]

crimslock Im so glad to hear your doing well, ive been lifting for a long time now
I love the weights,
I too had the pain to start on me while lifting weights and my mind was conditioned to fear
training- I now train about 3 x a week -
since I took a year off to recover , when I did start back to lifting some six months or more ago
I noticed in my body and core if I went to heavy before I was ready - well it just seemed to take me longer to get over the soreness
so I stayed with the high reps and light weights for around 4 months before moving back up to where I left off
before the accident that led to the tms reoccurrence- I thank god I know now it was my own thinking that was holding me back
and also keeping me in pain- when it came to lifting
atrophy has a way of setting in if you've been off a while and I know from two decades of lifting that getting that atrophy out first
can go a long way in getting you back to lifting heavy when your ready

 

[crimslock]

thanks Eric,, do you think i shouldn't do any weights until i build up my core strength first?? i.e. sit ups etc..

 

[Eric "Herbie" Watson]

I started back with baby steps like yoga and 5 to 10 lbs for sets and reps
now im lifting real heavy twice a week and light once a week
and still doing my endurance training
yes- if your core is weak which is atrophy, then id work there first- I did
I did leg raises and knee ups even before I started the set- ups
crawl, walk then run
take your time and build your endurance and wind first
yea, calisthenics is great for endurance

 

[BruceMC]

This TMS stuff is funny (i.e. odd), Crimlock: When I couldn't walk or run and biking hurt like heck, I found I could always lift weights without any catastrophic aftereffects. However, I notice now as my TMS has decreased a lot that I can move from weight machine to weight machine in a much more smooth, flexible and efficient manner. Before I moved around the floor of the weight room like a broken marionette. Now I flow around the floor like a dancer. One thing I have become aware of is that as the TMS pain subsides I'm getting much, much stronger than before. Before I just beat my brains out, but now I gain and retain muscle strength. From my experience, it seems as though TMS has a life of its own apart from any particular athletic activity you engage in. In other words, it isn't simply cause and effect. Seems as though you might as well exercise within your limits as long as your TMS is in charge and then increase your weights gradually as it backs off. As Eric suggests, I'd build up my core strength too gradually. That seems to make a lot of other exercises easier.

 

[Eric "Herbie" Watson]

that's awesome Bruce, I too at first when starting back -went heavy and it seemed ok
then when id do the lesser stuff for flexibility id hurt-
that's a tms bug indeed-
I had to get the mind unconditioned-( ya know the doc said don't move this way
and don't do that but you can go and lift 80lb bundles of shingles so you can pay your insurance conditioning)
certain stretch's and flexes ( seems like) more than the lifting would hurt but
after the conditioning resided I too dance- BruceMC- and so sweet it is

 

[crimslock]

Thanks Fella's but i am shattered. When i wrote the post i was feeling really good. I had done 2 weight sessions of very light weights and felt fine. 8 hours later i am a mess. My old back pain has come back. Haven't had this pain in over a year. My mind keeps telling me its from the weights and stay away from them. The pain stared in the butt area and is moving into my lower and middle back. I feel like i need a strong massage, which i use to get 3 times a week before i discovered TMS. What do you think is the cause of the pain, the weights cause haven't lifted in several years and did no core strengthening first or TMS at play. If TMS i guess i should push through the pain and keep lighting weights?? Honestly i am very upset by this. All those years ago when i was trying to lose weight caused my first back pain which lead to chronic pain for years with no hope for a long time. Now a bit over a year into knowing TMS, i decide to lift some weights to lose some fat etc and look what happens. I feel so mad, angry, full of Rage and so so sad and upset...

 

[Eric "Herbie" Watson]

ok crimslock with that info id say your conditioning is going to keep putting you their (in pain)
till you can get the break through or the uh- huh moment id stay with the very light yoga
and build up from there- then when the pain resides ( and it will if you don't lift weights)
then start back with very light weights- like tens and fives as I stated above-
and slowly over months work your way up to reconditioning yourself to lifting
the tms will always look to old injurys or make new ones for distraction
it doesn't want to give up,
youll have to be more clever and slowly change the conditioning by very light training
and most importantly not giving up on knowing its tms- that has to still be driven in my head
all the time- it takes a while to reconditioning even after we get a full grip on things
remember when the pain completely resides or is almost completely gone
then get back to your training goal, but this time take the baby steps
I learned the hard way too as you describe above,
I kept working core and going heavy and doing great
then in about a month the full pain came back with a vengeance
It took me about two weeks to get to feeling better and two more to get the nerve
back up to start over again- this time creep slowy in there
if you feel good doing core, great
but not now that your in pain- itll just add to the tension
let the tension and anger go- when that resides
then start again very very light- youll see
its like rehab,
even swimming as tennis tom mentioned on the podcast this week will be good
but only after the pain resides-0 if you try to push now youll add tension to
tension and that will only enforce your mind to think lifting isn't for you anymore
take you time, be patient and take the baby steps- lose the anger
thank your mind for alerting you to something emotional and don't lose your courage
youll get there, -

 

[crimslock]

That's great Eric, thank you so much..
Its amazing because i can run with no pain, i can bike ride with no pain, i can do heavy manual labor (landscaping etc) without pain. Play golf, swing a tennis racket and so on without pain. But as soon as i try free weights ouch!!! As i type the pain in my body is rampant, and really strong. I am speaking strongly to it. There is nothing wrong with me. I am healthy and strong. My last sxs to overcome was the burning. Its the sxs i hate and cant stand/handle the most. So i thought why not try getting over the fear of weight lifting and that may then see the burning move on. Its amazing with all this knowledge that TMS can really have a good dig at you. Thinking to my weight sessions, i can see whilst lifting weights i had fearful thoughts. And i mean real fear....

 

[Forest]

Without question, this is an example of conditioning. You are already able to do heavy manual labor, so you know strenuous activity won't increase your symptoms. When you do this manual labor you are probably using a lot of the same muscles that you use when you work out.

Conditioning really is a powerful thing. It is one reason why I think Dr. Sarno suggested to only resume physical activity when your symptoms subside. You need to have that strong believe and see the success to push past all of the doubt and fear we have about certain activities. As you mentioned, you had fearful thoughts while you were lifting weights. This fear is the conditioned TMS response. Remind yourself that you are strong and healthy and are fully capable of lifting weights. Since you have some great examples of being activity already, try making an evidence sheet if you have not done so yet. It may give you that bump of confidence you need to get better.

 

[crimslock]

Thanks Forest. As you from our chat the other day, that my burning is the main problem. Now i find also another problem, that is lifting weights.. So it appears there is still more work to be done. I am just not sure which path to go. I think i have read and learnt enough by now. As you know i treid therapy but had some issues there. Just stuck and a bit confused. The pain is still strong this morning. I awake to no pain but within 30 mins all the pain starts up. I find that interesting, that while asleep no pain until i awake.

 

[BruceMC]

I awake to no pain but within 30 mins all the pain starts up. I find that interesting, that while asleep no pain until i awake.

Your experience of this sort of diurnal pain cycle mirrors my own. I used to wake up with no pain whatsoever, but the minute I put my pants on, weighted the affected left leg and heard a click in my lower lumbar area, then the pain would start up and continue to increase as the day went on. Thankfully, this pain cycle no longer seems to operate the way it used to. My left side is much more stable and the click much less audible. Obviously, that click functioned as a psychological trigger that signaled the onset of my TMS pain. I think it started like you say about 30 minutes after waking, at approximately the same time I shook off the last remnants of sleep consciousness (or whatever you want to call it?) and became fully awake.

This makes me wonder whether you could recount any specific details about different events surrounding that time in the morning before your TMS pain starts up? I wonder about what section of the brain becomes active when you wake up in the morning, and what that particular region of the brain might have to do with the perception of pain? We'll have to leave that to the neuro-scientists!

It's interesting to note too how some TMS patients that Dr Sarno describes in Healing Back Pain had pain cycles exactly the opposite of ours. That is, they feel fine all day, but dread going to sleep because then they'll wake up in the early hours with excruciating pain and wind up popping pain pills every night at almost exactly the same hour. Two different forms of the same conditioned behavior, but involving different areas of gray matter? Dunno.

 

[crimslock]

Yes the same mate, very interesting. Hopefully this pain pattern will go soon. Only came back 2 days ago after the weight training. It makes me smile that i had gotten rid of it for a year or so!! I guess one positive from all this..