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Choose yr TMS battles wisely

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Mala, Sep 12, 2014.

  1. Mala

    Mala Well known member

    Hi everyone, I haven't posted here for a while as I have been thru a lot. My 2 main issues were back/neck pain & another pain that I had deep in my pelvis with pain upon urinating.

    It is very easy to sometimes lump every kind of pain as ' TMS' pain but you have to be very careful.

    My pelvis pain turned out to be 13 fibroids of varying sizes. The main 'fibroid from hell' as the dr called it was the size of an orange & was a 'broad ligament impacted fibroid' which means it was growing deep in my pelvic cavity & had attached itself onto the walls of my colon, bladder & pelvis. 'No wonder' the dr said 'u were having such pain'. I suffered 2 yrs from something that should have been surgically removed long ago. The surgery was hard ( The most excruciating post op pain ever) but the lesson that I learned is that not everything is TMS is one that I want to share with everyone especially women. please please go to yr doctor & have yrself thoroughly tested.

    However I did discover something else. When I came out of the op theatre & was in the recovery room my surgeon did say something that I thought I should share . He told me the op went fine , that the situation inside was horrific & that my abdominals were very strong. He asked me what I did -I said nothing much, walking & some basic Yoga & he said 'well continue what u r doing coz its working.'

    Now that did surprise me. After years of being told by various physios, trainers etc that my abs were 'really weak' I had really begun to believe what they said. Its the norm to be told that yr muscles r weak ( a big nocebo) if u have pain but if u think about it, u r still using yr muscles all day long so really they shouldn't be weak & that's a point I remember Dr Sarno making in one of his books.

    So yes many conditions may be TMS but not everything is. Do rule out anything serious & deal with it asap.

  2. Cap'n Spanky

    Cap'n Spanky Well known member


    Your post is so important that it should be a sticky! Thank you for reminding us that it's always important to be thoroughly checked out by a doctor. Thank goodness that everything turned out ok for you!!

    I remember reading a similar post on another TMS forum a while back. I think it turned out this guy had gout. He assumed for a long time that it was TMS and because he waited so long before getting treatment, he had serious and permanent consequences.
    North Star, Forest and Mala like this.
  3. Walt Oleksy

    Walt Oleksy Beloved Grand Eagle

    Mala, your doctor gave you great advice saying to continue walking and other normal activities.
    You won't hurt yourself and it will heal you faster, as Steve Ozanich and others say it did for them.
  4. Mala

    Mala Well known member

    Tim, I think u got my point exactly.

    We sometimes like to think that a condition is TMS when it is not. There r many reasons for that.

    I also feel that sometimes there is a kind of negative feeling towards drs (who r not tms savvy) in general which is unfair. This creates a sense of mistrust between dr & patient which can get in the way of proper diagnosis, treatment & healing. I have had nothing but the best drs & I am grateful to them for the time, advice & treatment I have recd.

    Healing is a very individual thing as is pain & the various factors that influence pain & we all deal with it differently.

    I urge everyone here especially women who r suffering from pain other than back, neck & joints to speak to their doctors openly & get all the required tests asap to rule out anything serious.

  5. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    I just want to add that it's important to understand that the constant stress of emotional repression CAN result in pathological changes in your body. Dr. Gabor Mate describes the physiological processes that create pathology in his compelling and compassionate book When The Body Says No. He lists fibroids among the many conditions that can result from years of unresolved emotional conflict. Actually, when it comes to fibroids, this seems to be a very well-known connection (just Google "fibroids and stress" to find pages and pages of references).

    If only our modern world could find a way to do something about this early in our lives, we could relieve massive amounts of suffering from conditions that just don't need to be inevitable.

    Mala, please heed Walt's advice, and also continue to do the inner work that you need to do, to boost your immune system and keep yourself healthy in the future! It's really vitally important.

    I recommend Dr. Mate's book to anyone who is interested in the "Stress-Disease Connection" (that's actually the subtitle of When The Body Says No).

    All the best to you,

  6. Abundance72

    Abundance72 Peer Supporter

    Mala thanks for the interesting post. I'm so happy that you finally found some answers. So do you feel a lot better? Has this surgery eliminated most of your pains? This message you've sent out is such an important one for men and women alike. Always get thoroughly checked out before assuming it's tms. Thanks once again and glad things are looking up:cat:
  7. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    Dear Mala, I am SOOOOOO glad you got things sorted out and dealt with. And YAY for smart and skilled doctors. Healing hugs to you...

    Jan, I am reading When the Body Says No and heartily amen your recommendation.
    Forest, Mala and Eric "Herbie" Watson like this.
  8. Cap'n Spanky

    Cap'n Spanky Well known member

    Right on, Mala! Any chronic illness/pain should ALWAYS be thoroughly examined by physicians. Once serious health conditions have been ruled out, then you can make the decision whether it's TMS or not.
    Forest and Mala like this.
  9. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    Here's a reply to the OP's posting at the TMS Help Forum. Ace1 is a physician oncologist who studied with Dr. Sarno at NYU Rusk:


    Hi I must comment on this so one can understand the concepts of tms. The first point mala, is why did you specifically develop such bad fibroids in the first place? This is the basic question. I believe that illness in general is related to the tms concept. This does not mean that someone should not have medical attention to help temporize the person until they are able to make bigger strides in their self improvement. I believe that real physical changes which are a result of chronic strain and even injury do start to take on the patterns of tms causing more symptoms when someone is strained then when they are not. I believe based on personal experience that if one is able to not do anything about the symptom but work more on the strain and conditioning, then that problem starts to heal. I do believe that there will be people that will work on this and fail. This is not to discourage but is based on the reality of the matter. Just because one fails in one own treatment of tms does not disprove that the original condition was indeed caused by tms. I failed for a long time until I started to get it right through trial and error and it is an extremely slow process. I wish you mala continued success and good health for the future."
  10. Ellen

    Ellen Beloved Grand Eagle


    I'm glad you have found relief from your symptoms of pain, in whatever form it comes.
    Mala and Eric "Herbie" Watson like this.
  11. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    Mala, I'm so happy for you. Wishing you the best of times to come.
    Bless You
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  12. Mala

    Mala Well known member

    Thank u all for yr good wishes.

    This is what I was worried about. I read Ace's comments & wanted to reply . I will keep this simple. Not everything is TMS. To say that I created a disease when u cannot prove it is nothing short of arrogant & ignorant. I would be very careful what to advocate .Yes the mind MAY produce illness but its not all black & white & there is much we do not know about the whole mind body connection.

    There are other factors that can contribute to disease too which we somehow tend to overlook. . Food & environment are but 2. Do u know how much crap we are eating & breathing. Water, meats are full of artificial estrogen. Plastic bottles & containers leech chemicals into what we consume. Girls are reaching puberty early, breast & other cancers are on the rise. I could go on & on. You want to ignore all this & go for plain TMS?? We r talking mind body yet so many ppl here forget the body.

    If all illness is related to TMS then how do you account for disease & illness in new born babies & small children & animals????

    Pls Pls be very careful what kind of message u send out. There are lots of good discussion that come out of the forum but we need to have a balanced approach & we need to know more about how te mind & body work before we can jump to any conclusions.


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  13. Cap'n Spanky

    Cap'n Spanky Well known member

    Whether or not emotional factors contributed to Mala's fibroids is irrelevant at this point. That ship had sailed!! The fibroids were causing severe pain and needed to be removed. No amount of journaling or psychoanalytic therapy was going to make them go away. I agree with Mala that it is arrogant to blame her for the fibroids and frankly, that's how some of the comments have come off.

    There is a delicate balancing act with TMS. On one hand, we've had to learn that doctor's are part of the problem and their focus on the physical can keep us sick and in pain. On the other hand, they are a true blessing that can save our lives. Mala's post reminds us not to ignore wisdom and science of physicians.... and again, to always be thoroughly checked before you assume any chronic condition is TMS.
    Becca, Forest, Seraphina and 2 others like this.
  14. Mala

    Mala Well known member

    'If one takes a broader view of what constitutes TMS, you could say getting hit by a bus and getting broken bones would constitute real structural conditions. Viewing the event from a broader psychological view point, one may ask what subconscious gremlins created the lack of attention to being in the NOW under-lying the lack of situational awareness causing one to step in front of that bus--are there any true accidents in life?'

    Posted by Tennis Tom on the TMS Help Forum in response to my post.

    So even if I am in the 'Now' minding my own business, & some raving drunken lunatic decides to plough into me causing massive injuries or even death, it is TMS & its somehow my unconscious that willed it to happen.

    Sorry but has anyone ever heard such drivel???

    This is nonsense as it is dangerous.

    All I wanted to say when I wrote the post was to be careful, to consider the condition carefully & deal with it in the appropriate way instead of allowing it to become worse as it did in my case. I think that was fair & accurate advice.

    Last edited: Sep 14, 2014
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  15. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    Now simmer down Mala, no need to get your panties into a bunch at an internet message board, it's only a TV screen. I wish you would be more open to a more expansive view of the mysteries of life and the universe. You had a learned TMS savvy physician give you a well thought out perspective on the complexities of TMS/psychosomatic medicine, and you respond with name calling and vitriol--"ignorant & arogant" and to my heartfelt advice as being "drivel". You have twisted my example around, I said if YOU step in front of a bus, not if you are hit by a drunk--even then, if you are in the "now" and situationally aware you may have the instinctual time to avoid the accident or mitigate the impact. If all your senses are in an aware state, you may sense the sound of the out of control vehicle bearing down on you and have time to make a defensive maneuver to avoid a full impact.
  16. Seraphina

    Seraphina Peer Supporter

    Hi Mala, hope you're doing well and feel sorry for your anger and pain.

    I'm just wondering have you done a thorough inspection of disease before you get into TMS approach, or have you only recently gotten into finding a cause after 2 years of TMS approach's not working? I think that makes a difference.

    I think Tom is worrying if this post gives too much anxiety/fear to those truly TMS people if the latter is your case but people just think "oh my gosh the doctor might have missed something on me too, so I should go on hospital shopping until I find something." you know this just perpetuates the TMS (my butt and lowback pain has grown since I read the original post, and I'm talking seriously). I think this kind of anxiety and fear amplifies a real physical pain, too, because that's what I experienced with my real injury.

    It might also help if you could tell us what your doctor told you about the possible reason of the forming of fibroid or the possible time period the fibroid might have started. You have advised to take a thorough test in case of female, so I want to listen to your story for more information. Maybe what kind of test you did might be helpful, too.

    (+ I just read your previous post from March. You had already mentioned 6.5 cm X 6.5 cm fibroid in that post and wrote even 3 gynecologists had been unsure of its being the cause of your pain then but recommended surgery to remove it anyway. What made you do the surgery now, compared to the past when you did not choose to go for it--if you think the fibroid was the very cause of the pain? I would love to hear your answer.)

    BTW, I also agree that food and environment does a very important role in our health, but you should also take into consideration that the quality of food we're eating and of environment we're facing are definitely less infected and much cleaner than 40-50 years ago; that's why people in their 20s and 30s now mostly do not have natural antibody for hepatitis A (including me).

    Thank you and wish you feel better!
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2014
  17. Anne Walker

    Anne Walker Beloved Grand Eagle

    We come to this forum for support and I hope we can keep that in mind, first and foremost, when we are giving advice. Mala, I am truly sorry that you did not get the medical attention you needed and if your exploration of TMS caused you any additional pain. I personally think all we can really do is share our personal experiences and to always encourage each other to see doctors for medical diagnosis. For me, it is not a choice between the two. I see doctors, I get tests, I have my annual check up... None of the TMS principles I have learned have made me feel that I should do otherwise. I was a little confused when you posted a warning that not every pain is caused by TMS. It had not occurred to me that this was the overall message someone might get from this forum. So in that sense, your post was a good reminder that we should more carefully recommend that people get examined by doctors before they assume their pain is caused by TMS. I had pelvic pain and I know I responded to several of your posts. I saw several doctors for it and had a sonogram. My doctor told me that he did not know what was causing it. Perhaps I should have asked you what doctors and tests you had before sharing my personal experience. Not all pelvic pain is caused by fibroids or disease, but we should certainly eliminate those possibilities first. My struggle has been that no amount of doctors or tests were ever enough to convince me that I did not have something physically wrong. This is the fear many of us with TMS struggle with and it can be extremely difficult to overcome. My only complaint is that so many doctors do not have a clear understanding of TMS. They do not offer it as a possibility even after they have not been able to figure out why the pain is there. I looked to them to help me with my pain and suffered for over 20 years. I followed their advice, I had surgeries, I took medication that gave me panic attacks and made me worse. I finally developed the resolve to work on the TMS, even though doctors were recommending more surgery. With their understanding and support, I may have healed quicker, but finally I am pain free most of the time. Most of us probably believe that if you have cancer, you need to have it treated. I am sure how we presently treat cancer will someday seem barbaric, at least I hope so. But it is the best we can do for now. I know people who have successfully cured their cancer on their own. How they actually achieved that is open to debate. I was not brave enough to try when I had cancer. There are many, many beliefs surrounding why we get cancer, how to keep from getting it etc. At the end of the day, it is a very personal decision. My hope is we can all have our beliefs and share them without getting too personal. That is what has made this forum a wonderful and life enriching support for me.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2014
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  18. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    Mala, I'm so sorry for your distress and anger. I believe that the people here sincerely wish to offer information to others that has helped themselves.

    The question that Tennis Tom raised in the other forum is not a new question at all - it has been raised by philosophers and thinkers and questioners, probably for many centuries. I think it continues to be a valid question, although in Western society still a very radical one. But I hate to think where many of us would be today if Dr. Sarno had not thought to question prevailing medical beliefs with his radical ideas.

    I believe that TMS theory and knowledge can help us heal better and faster from injuries, illness, and surgeries, with less dependence on medications. I am convinced that the possibilities go way beyond chronic pain, and in the last three years, this has become second nature to me - but to others, it's way too "out there" to contemplate. AKA drivel.

    By the way, it's very easy to find the word "drivel" associated with Dr. Sarno and his theories! I hope that makes you laugh, even just a little - laughter IS good medicine.

    Seraphina likes this.
  19. North Star

    North Star Beloved Grand Eagle

    I've debated over replying…I avoid conflict at all costs and this thread feels conflicted. First, I was taken aback, TT, at your reply to Mala's original post. I'm listening to "When the Body Says No" so I have a growing awareness of the far reaching implications of TMS on the mindbody. But that aside, I understood Mala's post to be a reminder that we observe Dr. Sarno's advice to make sure physical cause is ruled out. (And to be really honest, I had trouble understanding what the doctor was saying; it was poorly written. "…to help temporize the patient.."?) I know "tone" is a very subjective thing but overall, it felt like a rebuke to this reader's eyes. So Mala's reply didn't surprise me.

    If I had been in her shoes, I probably would have just skittered out the door. Especially after baring such intimate details and convalescing after such a surgery.

    This isn't "only a TV screen." There are real people behind every post and by the time folks have landed here, I would suspect most are exhausted and a bit on the vulnerable side. And because this sort of forum lacks benefit of gestures and body language to help convey intent, it is important that we use extra care when, what could be considered as an admonishment, that it is delivered with sensitivity.

    "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." - Maya Angelou
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  20. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    Awesome, North Star. Brave and compassionate. Going where I feared to go.

    Love, Jan
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