Fabi
Well known member
Hi Danielle
I recently visited a doctor and he suggested that type of surgery which I am not going to do. Did you? If you did, did it help you?
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I recently visited a doctor and he suggested that type of surgery which I am not going to do. Did you? If you did, did it help you?
danielle
Peer Supporter
Hi, no I never did the surgery, I wasn't convinced. I finally have a mouthguard that I can tolerate for now, while I'm coming from other angles. So I'm hopeful! Are you doing TMS work for TMJ?
Fabi
Well known member
I began digging into the causes of pain because of TMJ, migranes, yes, I have been using a mouthguard for many years, and I always wonder if my genetics had been different what would I be like, what would I want and do. Anyway, I have no idea, but it is what my therapist is leading me into, what don´t I ever express, or do, because it is hidden in the shadow (the shadow being a Jungian concept, what is it that we don´t live or express)
JaneSandyJane
Peer Supporter
this sounds like migraine to me -- I had jaw/tmj pain before I became migraine free -- I've never had any of those symptoms ever again. I also grind and have holes in the top of all of my back teeth -- no pain whatsoever. good luck, okay?
Sita
Beloved Grand Eagle
I started grinding my teeth in the sleep when I was 40 yo or something like that. 2-3 years before that, I started psychotherapy sessions with someone. I was the client. We worked on a few topics and I started to feel anger as an emotion. I was not aware I had this internal anger before starting psychotherapy. At the same time with experiencing anger - I started this new habit of grinding my teeth while sleeping. I got a mouth guard, custom made, from my dentist...but I could not use it, I could not sleep with it. I continued grinding my teeth and at the same time I continued psychotherapy sessions. Plus I did a lot of self work (introspection and changing lots of things) on my own, at home. After a few years I realized that I stopped grinding my teeth. I never had that problem again.
I should mention that the things that helped me the most were/are meditation and using positive affirmations. I'm a yogi, I've been doing yoga (meditation) for 30 years. But...I started to be more regular with my daily meditations in 2014. Basically, calming the mind twice a day (in meditation, a session early in the morning and then another one in the evening) helped me relax. I was able to get rid of the anger, let go of my dramas and traumas and relax, be at peace. And the grinding stopped.
Take care.
I should mention that the things that helped me the most were/are meditation and using positive affirmations. I'm a yogi, I've been doing yoga (meditation) for 30 years. But...I started to be more regular with my daily meditations in 2014. Basically, calming the mind twice a day (in meditation, a session early in the morning and then another one in the evening) helped me relax. I was able to get rid of the anger, let go of my dramas and traumas and relax, be at peace. And the grinding stopped.
Take care.
Fabi
Well known member
Wow, How did you get migrane free?
danielle
Peer Supporter
That's great to hear, thanks for sharing! Interesting how the grinding didn't start for you until after you started becoming aware of the anger. Really interesting connection. Glad you were able to let it go. Gives me hope!
danielle
Peer Supporter
Dr. Sarno talked a lot about repressed rage, and how those of us who are sure we don't have any anger issues, definitely have this.
I'm sure we can make progress with this jaw stuff. Let's keep going!
JaneSandyJane
Peer Supporter
I suffered with it for literally decades and then found Dr. Steinberg on this website. I posted my success story in that section. Best wishes. I'm completely symptom free every day now. It was like magic for me.
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danielle
Peer Supporter
That's great, I will look up your story!
Hi Kalo, i recently got my wisdom teeth out and haven’t stopped being in pain since the surgery and have developed TMJ, and ended up being diagnosed with severe degenerative arthritis in my jaw joints which was previously pain free/asymptomatic.
Since you have arthritis there as well, I’m
wondering are you pain free now?
Rabscuttle
Beloved Grand Eagle
TMj has been my most debilitating symptom. My left joint is very clearly anatomically off, as in my early 20s I started having these micro dislocations where the joint would slide out of the socket, stay out for a few seconds then pop back in. Years of grinding my teeth and martial arts did not help. I probably had 20 of these micro dislocations. However my nervous system wasn’t totally fucked yet so I didn’t really obsess about this issue and would bounce back in a few days. In February 2025, while dealing with severe debilitating TMS, I fell asleep on my left fist and completely shoved the joint out of the socket. This time it was out for 30-60 seconds before popping back in. Now, being in full nervous dysfunction. This turned chronic and I obsessed about this pain. 3d x ray shows narrowing, the joint is very clearly different from the right.
450 days straight of a nightmare, with debilitating facial pain that impacted my ability to eat, speak, sneeze, yawn. I had pretty much 24/7 headaches and thought I was fucked. I now have my lowest level of symptoms. 2ish weeks ago I had a stretch of 3-4 days with pretty much no facial pain. I now have very minimal pain.
(Sorry for all the physical details, just trying to give you hope, because I know a lot of peoples TMj symptoms are vague and they often have no physical changes)
it’s more than a little curious that you’ve had no pain your whole life and the wisdom teeth removal brought it on. I Imagine your brain became hyper-vigilant of the area and just started generating pain. The nature of facial pain makes detaching and losing fear (two necessary things to overcome TMS) difficult. I’ve dealt with 20-30 symptoms, many of which are debilitating, facial pain, is far and away the most difficult. TMS is TMS but the struggle varies in difficulty. You need to believe in the TMS diagnosis (it’s not going to be 100% to start, it took a long time for me to believe it was TMS and that I could get over it) and begin to lose fear and obsession, and start finding hope and treating yourself well. Obsessing about your jaw, obsessing about a structural diagnosis and believing that your future is fucked is not treating yourself well. Do a TMS program if you haven’t. Non guided spiritual based meditation has helped me a lot.
I wish you the best.
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Thank you so much for your comment. that’s so good to hear about your pain. no joint issues anymore?? Did you ever get a “diagnosis” for this joint dislocating issue? it’s the arthritis component that is confusing me so much - apparently the jaw would have been stretched way too far open while i was under during surgery and they’re saying that because of my joint degeneration that it kicked off the problems eg clicking, muscle pain. i don’t actually know what further it could have done to the joints but im seeing a surgeon for a second opinion to see what exactly is going on in there before going full TMS on it. i’ve been seeing a physio for it and she said since my mouth opening is still limited I might need to do something more. Im finding this all really difficult to navigate because of the arthritis component and because it’s so different to my other, long term symptom (vulvodynia), which took me 2.5 years to reach the conclusion that it is a TMS symptom and even a doctor did too.
nervous system definitely been fucked for a long time. i’ve had vulvodynia for 3 years which has been a nightmare and to have this added on top - i’ve been at rock bottom before and im finding myself having to really fight daily to not go there. i was seeing a mindbody therapist for my vulvodynia but can’t really afford her right now as i can’t work at the moment. i’m a bit too hysterical to adopt the usual TMS strategies right now but maybe I need to go back to her. I do meditate, and I try to do a lot of things like Curable and podcasts. Is there a programme you could recommend?
It’s just so odd having been on this TMS journey for a year with my vulvodynia to be trying to attach it mentally to another symptom. The arthritis has confused me so much.
Any insight / success stories as to arthrosis/osteoarthritis being TMS would be greatly appreciated - I haven’t found much.
Appreciate you and your comment.
Adam Coloretti (coach)
Well known member
I'd be questioning this - you clearly had the arthritis before the surgery, and all of a sudden it kicks off after causing no pain whatsoever beforehand. Unless they can point to something occurring structurally during the surgery (I mean like a dislocation, not just your jaw being stretched) I'd be suspicious. Couple that with your other symptom (if you already have one TMS symptom, the chances of the next symptom being TMS are very high) and the nervous system dysregulation - it's looking like TMS (I obviously can't give you a guarantee).
Osteoarthritis is one of those things where someone can be in agony and have very minor changes (which is usually TMS in truth), and then someone has no pain and can have significant imaging (as would have been your case before the surgery). I'm not saying it can't cause pain, but TMS is often a factor. Keen to hear what the surgeon says though
Degenerative joint do not cause pain
TMJ is a catch all phrase and when people say there jaws are out of alignment they have no clue what they are talking about.
I haven't posted on this forum in a long time
My left joint condyle is pulled forwarded. I have what's called disc displacement without reduction which means my left joint does not go back to its normal position.
I have NO pain but what I do have a CONSTANT grinding and popping jaw that when I open my mouth just a little I can feel it.
I have been living with it for 8 years and believe me when I say if I only had pain, I would be happy.
For anyone of your using the lose term "out of alignment" just because U have pain, U don't understand what it means.
Most of U have soft tissue pain which has nothing to do with what U all think is out alignment.
I would bank U all have TMS in a heart beat.
So; let me tell what I have done and why I do not visit here often, I moved and am I trying to live the best life I can. Yes; even with cracking, popping jaw with limiting opening.
Your pain will go away when U stop caring and go back to living. Not even try to heal it. Giving it attention will only make it worst.
TMJ is a catch all phrase and when people say there jaws are out of alignment they have no clue what they are talking about.
I haven't posted on this forum in a long time
My left joint condyle is pulled forwarded. I have what's called disc displacement without reduction which means my left joint does not go back to its normal position.
I have NO pain but what I do have a CONSTANT grinding and popping jaw that when I open my mouth just a little I can feel it.
I have been living with it for 8 years and believe me when I say if I only had pain, I would be happy.
For anyone of your using the lose term "out of alignment" just because U have pain, U don't understand what it means.
Most of U have soft tissue pain which has nothing to do with what U all think is out alignment.
I would bank U all have TMS in a heart beat.
So; let me tell what I have done and why I do not visit here often, I moved and am I trying to live the best life I can. Yes; even with cracking, popping jaw with limiting opening.
Your pain will go away when U stop caring and go back to living. Not even try to heal it. Giving it attention will only make it worst.
7 weeks ago
I'd be questioning this - you clearly had the arthritis before the surgery, and all of a sudden it kicks off after causing no pain whatsoever beforehand. Unless they can point to something occurring structurally during the surgery (I mean like a dislocation, not just your jaw being stretched) I'd be suspicious. Couple that with your other symptom (if you already have one TMS symptom, the chances of the next symptom being TMS are very high) and the nervous system dysregulation - it's looking like TMS (I obviously can't give you a guarantee).
Osteoarthritis is one of those things where someone can be in agony and have very minor changes (which is usually TMS in truth), and then someone has no pain and can have significant imaging (as would have been your case before the surgery). I'm not saying it can't cause pain, but TMS is often a factor. Keen to hear what the surgeon says though
Thank you so much for this. Yes, I’d like to ask the surgeon all of those questions to get a better understanding so I can decide if anything has actually happened or if it’s just kicked off TMS.
Oddly, the other change apart from the pain and tightness in the muscles and slightly in the joint is limited mouth opening and a bit of clicking/grinding. I click when i swallow now. It would be great if I could find success stories about this as well.
Appreciate your message and also reminding me that I would have had awful imaging while feeling fine. That is key for me to remember when trying to see that it could get better. Doing very poorly mentally.
Happy to update you!
Rabscuttle
Beloved Grand Eagle
Clicking when swallowing could just be your Eustachian tubes. If you pinch your nostrils together and blow out gently, is it the same noise? Eustachian tube dysfunction and TMj is going to go hand and hand because the muscle tension in the face will cause overlapping symptoms.
you need to be very very careful when going to oral surgeons. If an oral surgeon is jumping straight to surgery, arthroscopic, joint replacement etc, you need to run away, and fast. If they are recommending orthotics/dental splints, run (I spent 3k only to make my situation worse). Take everything they say with a grain of salt and keep the TMS perspective in mind always. Less is more with TMj treatment.
you are a tmser. The odds of this issue just suddenly popping up after wisdom teeth removal is so unbelievably low. I unfortunately see this idea where if there is x physical finding it’s not TMS. All pain, whether it’s physical or psychosomatic is generated in the brain. Can arthritis cause pain? Sure. But that label often sends us spiraling, obsessing, we start expecting pain, we guard the area and we get into a vicious feedback loop of telling the brain that something is off, so it keeps pain going. You need to ask yourself, what good is this pain accomplishing? Because you’re still going to eat, you’re still going to talk. How low you go in reaction to your pain and symptoms is a big factor in determining whether the brain keeps them going. Because if you can’t get over that fear then there is less of a chance of being able to address the underlying things fueling TMS/nervous system dysfunction.
and to answer your initial question to me, no I never got a definitive diagnosis beyond the joint is damage and that there is significant enough narrowing of the space to be evident on the x rays. I didn’t ask further questions because frankly I was in distress and panic. And thankfully I didn’t. The first oral surgeon I went to was actually great and just recommended muscles relaxants and to let the joint stabilize. Unfortunately I couldn’t let go of guarding the area and obsessing so it just escalated the symptoms. Then went to a second doctor who was happy to scam a desperate person out of thousands for a useless splint.
my joint is not miraculously healed and ‘normal’, my teeth are clearly crooked and my bite is clearly off. but the body adjusts and adapts if we get out of its way. It took me a long long time
I think I had a micro dislocation maybe last summer but nothing since. However my rock bottom came January 2026 ( nearly a year after being TMS aware) because I could not stop scanning my jaw, touching the muscle knots, adjusting the jaw back and forth. I almost killed myself from that pain that I caused. Obsession, fear, and despair do utterly nothing for you.
and I unquestionably have arthritis/joint damage in my jaw. You don’t have 20 dislocations without it. The nature of a dislocation is damaging to the joint. Yet I have my lowest level of symptoms and have days with no pain. How is that possible if it’s not TMS. You don’t need someone with your identical situation. You need to sit down with yourself and reflect on how you’re treating your self. Because honestly it sounds like you treat yourself like utter trash.
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