1. Our TMS drop-in chat is today (Saturday) from 3:00 PM - 4:00 PM DST Eastern U.S. (New York). It's a great way to get quick and interactive peer support. Enrique is today's host. Click here for more info or just look for the red flag on the menu bar at 3pm Eastern.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this updated link: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/painrecovery/
    Dismiss Notice

Call-in Tuesday, Ozanich Chapter 9, on Memes

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021), Oct 9, 2013.

  1. Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)

    Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021) Beloved Grand Eagle

    This Tuesday, October 15, the call-in discussion group will be discussing Chapter 9 (What Did You Meme by That?) in Steve Ozanich's book The Great Pain Deception starting at 9 pm Eastern Time. It lasts an hour, sometimes a little longer. Phone lines will open half an hour early so you can talk to hosts and early callers. Here's how to join the discussion (for detailed instructions, visit http://go.tmswiki.org/connect ):
    · If you're connecting by phone, dial 1 (347) 817-7654 and when prompted enter the meeting number 18311499.
    · If you're connecting via your computer (Fuze Meeting), go to www.fuzemeeting.com/fuze/app/48fb7aa8/18311499 and follow the instructions from there.
    For more information, visit www.tmswiki.org/ppd/Call-In_Peer_Discussion_Group .

    Steve introduces a word new to most of us in this chapter: meme (rhymes with dream).

    It first appeared in a book by Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene, in 1976 when he said a meme is an idea or way of thinking about the world that is passed from person to person, society to society, and generation to generation. It replicates information by imitation, using a language of words, sounds, or other symbols and also organic genes can pass down information to us that make us believe in certain things or ways.

    Memes can definitely effect our health. Examples of memes are the notion that cold weather causes colds, and that slipped discs cause pain, and if we believe those theories, memes really do cause these symptoms.

    But these are false realities if our unconscious mind accepts a false meme.

    Memes can express themselves in the form of behavior. These false notions of the human body’s breakdown or demise actually affect our behavior because memes “infect” the brain through imitation. One person passes the false meme on to another, and so forth.

    Memes of different types go in and out of “fashion.” Ulcers used to be a main complaint, while today many people complain of back pain. If you had a stomach ache years ago you might have thought you had an ulcer. Just hearing a family member, friend, or neighbor say they have an ulcer produced a meme that gave a person the same symptom.

    Steve quotes Dr. Marc Sopher who said that when he discovered that he could not slip a disc, or that herniated discs were not causing his back pain, he removed that meme from his mind. He now understood that his survival was based solely upon his beliefs. “I am what I believe I am; no more, no less.”

    Our parents, doctors, chiropractors, physiatrists and other medical authority figures can all plant memes that grow up like pain-producing weeds in the gardens of our mind.

    Dr. Richard Cabot wrote about this as early as 1903 when he said “It is we physicians who are responsible for perpetuating false ideas about disease and its cure. The legends are handed along through nurses and fond mothers, but they originate with us, and with every placebo that we give [to others] we do our part in perpetuating error, and harmful error at that.”

    He didn’t identity an alternative to meme because he didn’t know about Dr. Sarno’s TMS theory that our pain may not be caused by anything structural but by repressed emotions.

    It’s very interesting that in this chapter Steve says that studies reveal that people with higher intelligence are more susceptible to suggestion and more prone to the placebo effect than those with lower intelligence.

    He says that physicians need to stop telling patients that they have bad feet, knees, hips, necks, back, and hands that they will have to live, manage, and die with, thereby igniting a nocebo response [a nocebo is a negative placebo]).

    The actor Christopher Reeve who played “Superman” in the movies, said, “Our well-being has a lot to do with the mind body connection, in that we can make ourselves better, and we can also make ourselves worse, by that mental attitude.”

    While our health can be radically influenced by physicians and others, the responsibility for healing ultimately lies with the sufferer.

    A man said his family doctor examined his elbows and asked if his hands felt numb at night. The man said no, but a few nights later he began to feel pain his forearm and his hands became numb. The man was a victim of the power of suggestion from a doctor.

    Steve cites the extreme example of the power of suggestion two doctors tested by telling a man in a restaurant that he looked sick and should be at home resting in bed. The man went home, climbed into bed, and died.

    “The tragedy is,” says Steve, “that like pain, cancer is an effect of [severe] Phase 4 TMS, and that billions of dollars raised for a cure are aimed at only treating the effect and missing the cause altogether. But we have the ability to attract cancer to us if we consciously obsess on it.

    He quotes from a doctor who said, “When I was in medical school, a surprising percentage of the class came down with whatever disease was being discussed in class. It made no difference what the disease was; it could have been hepatitis, schizophrenia, or syphilis.”

    Steve says, “There must be more research and public education conducted as to how a thought permeates the unconscious mind and manifests itself into the mind body.”

    So be aware of memes and people who can make us think we’re sick or in pain.

    While considering this chapter, I was reminded of the old song, “Mean to Me,” written in 1929 by Fred Ahlert and Roy Turk, sung over various generations by Frank Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald, Doris Day, and Linda Ronstadt. The words go:

    “You’re mean to me. Why must you be mean to me? Gee, honey, it seems to me you love to see me crying.”

    The song ends saying, “It must be great fun to be mean to me; You shouldn’t, for can’t you see, What you mean to me?”

    In thinking about this chapter, I find it easy to substitute the word meme for mean.

    I hope you join us at the call-in on Tuesday and share your thoughts and experiences on how memes have impacted your health. Perhaps you are, like we and thousands of others, following Dr. Sarno’s theories of TMS causing your pain. He is a positive force spreading a meme whose good news has healed many thousands.
    Forest and Becca like this.
  2. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    Gerald Jampolsky, MD, told me that the students in medical school came down with all kinds of symptoms they were studying. There's a name for it but it escapes me now. Memes are one way of explaining it.

    See you Tuesday
  3. njoy

    njoy aka Bugsy

    I love the whole concept of memes, Steve. Clearly, it's useful that our we can simply accept an idea that "everyone" believes without arguing the point. Great timesaver! But what if the meme is simply not true? The result is endless trouble until reality forces us to change our minds. I'm looking forward to tomorrow's discussion because bring this stuff firmly into consciousness means being able to deal with life so much more effectively.
  4. Forest

    Forest Beloved Grand Eagle

    The Big Bang Theory, a sitcom, does a riff on memes:
  5. Mtngal

    Mtngal Well known member

    Hi all,

    Unfortunately I was thinking the call-in last night was central time and and not EST.. and I just realized it about 10 minutes before the forum was over.. plus I'm not exactly sure how to participate.. i downloaded the FUZE meeting app., but not sure how to proceed from there.

    Anyway, I wanted to say a few things about "Memes". When I was 27 and first got my back pain, I was told by the first orthopedist I went to that I had ankylosing spondylitis (AS)- which is basically a rheumatoid disease where the spinal vertebrae eventually fuse together in a very painful process. End result is the hunchback of Notre Dame type of thing. Despite not having blood tests, he told me this in a very matter of fact way. I was an athlete and my whole life ahead of me. So my Dad and I went to a rheumatologist in Billings, Mont., who basically half-heartedly agreed.. I was devastated, and, of course my pain magnified a hundredfold. After going to other docs who said i did NOT have this, I went to a well-known back doctor in Toronto, CA, Dr. Hamilton Hall. He told me that the diagnosis of AS was "certainly scraping the bottom of the barrell" - but then his diagnosis was "segmental instability"... in other words, the vertebrae were "loose" and moving around and the musculture around them were going into spasm to try to stabilize the joint. So here was good/bad news... because I didn't have AS, but how on earth were my "unstable vertebrae" going to get stable? Surgery was not apparently an option for this "derangement" as it was called. Finally after months of PT that didn't work, he got mad and told me to "get on with my life".. Oddly enough, those words proved to be the stimulus for my eventual healing. I also met a guy and had a relationship and my back slowly healed - after 4 long years of hell. Since then my back pain has returned three times, the last 2 mos. being the 4th.. Each time it has gotten better by finding out there was nothing wrong with my back and it was TMS.. but to this day, do you know that I STILL have the irrational fear that it IS actually AS and I keep asking doctors /chiropractors to affirm that.. They must think I'm nuts..

    So this has been a definite stumbling block in my permanent recovery. For some reason it scared my so much, I cannot get it out of my head.. ditto with the "instability".. in spite of the fact that the longest time I"ve gone between recurrences has been 11 years - where I jogged, climbed, skiied, biked, ran 1/2 marathons, played very competitive racquetball.. I now think the reason behind this latest recurrence is an age trigger/afraid of future/mortality emotion. Don't think it's repressed, because it sure is right there at the surface. I know Dr Sarno says this thought can be very enraging.
    But here's another thought about "memes".. I have seen in some posts and in TMS books as well, that the statement is made to the affect that if one doesn't acknowledge or accept TMS, the pain will "never leave or go away".. so isn't that, in effect, as bad as giving someone a false diagnosis? Because now there is the added burden that you and your doubt are going to keep you in pain forever.. and it's a terrible burden to think that you are keeping yourself in pain and may never get out of it.. even though it may be true, I think we should banish words like "NEVER", or "EVER" because then we are doing the same thing the docs did who don't know/understand about TMS - the Nocebo effect.

    Anyway, just my thoughts. I am seeing some progress - like the fact that I could work lifting/hauling and loading tree branches for 3.5 hours last weekend with little or no pain, but I hurt lying down in bed? So I'm working on the repressed and not so repressed emotions.

    Bless all of you,
  6. Mtngal

    Mtngal Well known member

    Actually, wanted to correct a mistake towards end of my rant: I didn't keep asking docs to affirm the AS, but to confirm I didn't have it..
  7. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hello Mtngal,
    This is a lot of news . So you get a bad diagnosis, then you decide not to believe it- then you get better
    and you have some relapses - ok first of all you will have to loose the fear that this might be what the first DR. said.
    You know holding that fear is a choice and you can learn through programs like. nlp , emdr, focusing.
    and others how to get that nagging thought outta ya head. Im sorry you missed the show, you would
    have been a great addition, hope to see you next week.
    Just go back to the App, hit join meeting, tag in the meeting number 18311499 and you should be in there.

    How much of sarno have you studied, you never said. WE really have to read over and learn, apply- then read over and, learn apply and read over-
    Sarnos works to really get it sunk into our unconscious , this will give us a feeling that finally we know the truth and then you will continue to recondition at this point
    till you should live with no pain. So let me know how much of the tms healing therapy you have learned, I can help you there if you need. it is knowledge therapy ya know
    Ya heal from knowing the knowledge is true. After learning the works for quite some time it should sink into your mind to think psychologically each time you feel a pain.
    Then you'll soon see that your pain is generated by your emotions rather they be aware or unaware.

    Mtngal Quote)- But here's another thought about "memes".. I have seen in some posts and in TMS books as well, that the statement is made to the affect that if one doesn't acknowledge or accept TMS, the pain will "never leave or go away".. so isn't that, in effect, as bad as giving someone a false diagnosis? Because now there is the added burden that you and your doubt are going to keep you in pain forever.. and it's a terrible burden to think that you are keeping yourself in pain and may never get out of it.. even though it may be true, I think we should banish words like "NEVER", or "EVER" because then we are doing the same thing the docs did who don't know/understand about TMS - the Nocebo effect.

    Eric)- I wanted to elaborate on this with you for a moment Mtngal, See when you believe 100% in tms you wont fear anymore and you'll heal- when you believe 100% in tms healing you will know when the DR is giving you a nocebo and you wont have to face a lie- See tms is all about truth, really all of the elements that heal are thousands of years old except for some of Sarnos discoveries that are revolutionary , like not to fear the pain or anxiety- it cant harm you.
    Its all wisdom proven through the ages to be correct and people heal when they go through tms healing therapy. When was the last back surgery a complete success, their not and its been proven- here its no knives and no saw bones just knowledge therapy at its best.
    Why wouldn't you want to believe 100% and have that protective armor from all the saw bones out there ya know. also, Believing 100% has a way of getting your focus off the body and on with life- tms will keep your mind on the body as you still have that trait so yea you don't believe 100% but you could by the law of habit. Its not about a nocebo, were just telling you with 100% certainty that knowledge therapy heals and when you can get your focus 100% on the psychological you'll see why what we say isn't a nocebo, cause you have to take the medicine first right, well if you don't take all the medicine then how is it even in the nocebo rank.
    Take the knowledge therapy Mtngal and you'll be convinced that Thiers no nocebo here. You have to be in full knowledge that you have done the program with all your heart and then it have a bad side effect or let down to you, have you tried with all your heart.
    God bless you Mtngal
    hope to chat with you soon
    Aziz likes this.
  8. Mtngal

    Mtngal Well known member

    Hi Herbie,

    You are right. I think that it IS up to each person to try to believe 100% in TMS. And of course, when in pain, and certain personality types (like mine) over-analyze and start fearing the "not believing" or doubt. So I realize that books and posts have only the BEST of intentions, and it IS up to me to do the work and cement down the TMS belief 100%. I am already seeing signs of healing.. my goal is once this is completely gone, it will be PERMANENT! Steve O has helped me a lot via emails and also all you guys in the forum. There is healing in finding we are not alone.
    Thank you for your passionate reply.. I am trying with all my heart, as you say. I'm going to post another really neat example of surgery being the ultimate placebo elsewhere so look for that. You will find it unbelievable!

  9. Eric "Herbie" Watson

    Eric "Herbie" Watson Beloved Grand Eagle

    Thank you Mtngal, your awesome
    cant wait to read your post
    Bless you
  10. Becca

    Becca Well known member

    Hey all,

    So unfortunately, Steve was unable to join us for the podcast on Tuesday. BUT, we had a really fantastic discussion! For those of you who missed it, or want to listen again, here's the recording from October 15th. As always, you can listen to the discussion using the audio player below, or you can download it as an mp3 by right-clicking on this link (or the link below the audio player) and choosing to save it to your computer. Happy listening!

    Click here to download the mp3 audio

Share This Page