breast cancer need urgent advice and support :(

[filipe]

Dear all,

My wife was diagnosed with an invasive carcinoma/breast cancer. I'm affraid she developped this cancer, because of me and because of the need to protect my 6 year son so the effects of my struggle against chronic pain were minimal on him. I often loose my temper and shout at her when I was in pain. She never abandon me, though. For me being sick was new. I was always healthy. Also fear got into me, and I panic about diferente diseases, such as MS, and other which possible justify my nerve pain

My constant battle against chronic pain/TMS for 5 years, which resulted in a 100% Cure 2 years ago, and my understanding of Psychossomatic ilness, was characterized by many ups and downs, and great stress namely for my wife. I feel responsible. I didn't help her at home, I concentrate my life around me and my problema,etc... I often blamed her for not understanding my chronic pain or not believing that it was real, or that it was phisical rather than psychological. (How I was wrong )).

Some months ago she also developed skin cancer (Basal Cell Carcinoma) which was successfully removed. For me 2 cancers in a row it is very stange. Now I wanna help her. I Love her so much. But I have doubts. I was 100% sure that cancer was psychosomatic when I deal with TMS. A TMS equivalente sort of speak. For instances, breast cancer is a kind of an epidemic, such as chronic pain. And this year she had a friend with breast cancer. And the lump on her breast doubled is size until of course she did the biopsy. It is almost like if she were "contaged" by her colegue. On the other hand, As we know woman are petrefied about breast cancer

I really need some advise. I really need to ear your opinium about cancer, or people that experience remission from it, with a TMS approach. On the other hand, I read about German New Medicine. Which for me is like a TMS approach. It makes sence to me.

Thanks a lot,

Filipe

 

[Ellen]

Filipe,

I am very sorry to hear that your wife has been diagnosed with breast cancer. I'm sure this is a very scary and stressful time for you both.

I am not a doctor, but my understanding is that cancer is NOT TMS. Your wife should be working with a medical doctor who specializes in treating cancer. She can supplement her treatment with mindbody techniques to reduce stress and a sense of well being.

Wishing you both good health..........

 

[filipe]

I don't agree with you. I'm sorry to say this, but if you think like that you shouldn't be here. There is no thing as miracule cure. Only lies, and no interest in investigating those natural cures. Evertything has an explanaition. But, you cannot take our brain from the equation like modern medicine does. CANCER IS A TMS EQUIVALENT, unless of course you are subject to high levels or cumulative radiation, or toxic chemicals, etc... mind body weakens the imune system. oxygen depravation ovoid nutrientes from reaching tomor cells, etc.... It is a blockage...

 

[Forest]

Hi Filipe, I'm so sorry that you are having to deal with this. It's so clear how much you love your wife and how guilty you feel for possibly having hurt her.

Cancer is a very difficult topic to discuss because feelings about it are so strong. I would bet that everyone reading this knows someone whose life was ended by cancer.

I don't agree with you. I'm sorry to say this, but if you think like that you shouldn't be here.

Ellen is a beloved member of this forum and you do not have the right to tell her where she can or cannot post. Over the years, she has posted 1,128 time, primarily helping others, including an inspiring success story entitled Recovery from 20 years of fibromyalgia and a lifetime of migraines. Her posts have been "liked" a whopping 1,374 times, touching many different members. She was reaching out to you in compassion and while you do have a right to ignore that, you do not have a right to attempt to shoo her away or silence her.

To anyone reading this, I am the founder and administrator of this forum and this site. Two values that are core to this forum are Freedom of Thought and Freedom of Expression.

Wikipedia defines Freedom of thought as follows:

Freedom of thought is the freedom of an individual to hold or consider a fact, viewpoint, or thought, independent of others' viewpoints. It is different from and not to be confused with the concept of freedom of speech or expression.​

In contrast, Wikipedia defines Freedom of Expression as follows:

Freedom of speech is the political right to communicate one's opinions and ideas. The term freedom of expression is sometimes used synonymously, but includes any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used.

Governments restrict speech with varying limitations. Common limitations on speech relate to libel, slander, obscenity, pornography, sedition, hate speech, incitement, fighting words, classified information, copyright violation, trade secrets, non-disclosure agreements, right to privacy, right to be forgotten, public security, public order, public nuisance, campaign finance reform and oppression.​

The above quotes can be summarized by the famous quote, sometimes incorrectly attributed to Voltaire: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." (Just to be clear, because emotions are high, I'm not saying that I disagree with you - just that I love that quote.)

With that as background, it is the policy of this forum that we do not have a litmus test or political correctness regarding beliefs about mindbody phenomena here. People have every right to express whatever opinions they want about mindbody phenomena. Everyone on this forum has a passionate interest and belief in TMS and also has the right to express their opinion about mindbody phenomena in a respectful and non-harassing manner.

With that said, I'd like to note that it seems that emotions have gotten high in this thread. As I sometimes do, I've locked this thread for a brief period of time to give people a chance to process what they've read and find their best selves to put forward.

I will unlock the thread soon. Whatever happens, I wish the very best for you and your wife. Cancer can definitely be beaten and research about it is progressing very rapidly.

Discussions go best when everyone has the facts at their disposal, so I'm going to share some references that I encourage people to track down. The name most associated with Mindbody approaches to cancer is Bernie Siegel, MD. He was most popular in the eighties, but a TMS Therapist I am friends with said that they found his first book hugely hope-giving when they successfully dealt with their breast cancer. (I've actually known three TMS Therapists who had cancer.)

While Dr. Sarno does explicitly say that Cancer is not a TMS equivalent on page 4 of The Divided Mind, he does say that "unconscious emotions may play a role in causation, but are not the only factor. [emphasis in original]." (category 1 on p. 4 of TDM is TMS and its equivalents, corresponding to chapters 3-7 in MBP. Category 2 on p. 4 of TDM are disorders in which emotions may play a role, corresponding to the chapter of the same name in MBP (chapter 8). See this page for a more detailed taxonomy.) He also devotes just over three pages of The Mindbody Prescription (starting on page 133) to cancer in a chapter entitled "Disorders in which Emotions May Play a Role."

In opening the three pages on cancer in MBP, Dr. Sarno writes, (p. 133)

Many studies and observations through the years have suggested the possible role of emotions in the etiology and course of cancer. For anyone interested in this subject I suggest reading the work of Lawrence LeShan, Kenneth Pelletier, Carl Simonton, Steven Locke and Lydia Temoshok. Dr. Locke’s book The Healer Within (written with Douglas Colligan) has an excellent review of the work that has been done in this field over the years.​

I have a copy of The Healer Within, but its copyright date is 1986 and it appears to be out of print. It takes an approach called "Psychoneuroimmunology" (PNI) which says that chronic stress can depress the immune system. Because the immune system is the body's natural defense against cancerous cells, when the immune system is depressed, susceptibility to cancer increases. Luckily, there is a newer mindbody book about PNI by Gabor Mate, MD, called When the Body Says No: Exploring the Stress-Disease Connection. When the Body Says No was published in 2003, 5 years after Mindbody Prescription, so Dr. Sarno didn't have a chance to endorse it in MBP. However, When the Body Says does have two chapters about Cancer, including one called "Is there a 'Cancer Personality'?", which certainly sounds intriguing. I think of When the Body Says as an updated version of The Healer Within, incorporating 16 years of new research into psychoneuroimmunology. Dr. Mate is really a terrific writer who includes many references to scientific articles, so he's someone I and many other TMSers recommend.

Like I said, I'll unlock this thread soon, but I thought I'd share those references in the interim (most of the books can be downloaded immediately on Amazon Kindle). I think discussions go best when everyone has the facts at their disposal.

The last thing I'd like to say is that as TMSers, it is very easy for us to be very hard on ourselves. I tend to be hard on myself, and I'm wondering if you are, too. It's clear how much you love your wife and I just hope you aren't blaming yourself for what is happening to her. I'm sure that you did the best you could have, and if your TMS was tough on her, her support of you was a gift that she gave to you because - while things may not have been perfect - on the deepest level, she believes in you and loves you back. So please practice compassion toward yourself. Pay attention to the emotions that may be swirling inside of you and try to be mindful of them. Even if you don't want to do this for yourself (and I hope you do want to do it for yourself) you will be best able to take care of her if your own reservoir of rage isn't overflowing from pressure you are putting on yourself and sadness about your imperfect moves in the past isn't overwhelming you.

Wishing you the best...

 

[Forest]

I had planned to keep the thread locked for a couple of hours, but now I'm beginning to think that that won't be necessary. I'm going to go ahead and unlock it to see how things go.

Please keep things civil, folks!

 

[filipe]

Sorry. This whole situation has been very stressfull to me. I didn't mean to be rude. I'm just very upset. To tell you the truth I didn't even read Ellen's reply. I only read the words in capitals letters which stated cancer is not TMS. This scared me. This is what I heard from Dr every time I consult them. This is all new to me. I'm just angry at our things are, with the medical industry. There is a lot of lies. On the other hand, English is not my native language. It is difficult sometimes to say something in a diferente way. I just got angry when someone says cancer is not TMS, because that is what I've heard from all drs all my life, when I was batteling with chronic pain, Atrial Fibrillation, Acid REflux, Neuropathic pain, Fibromialgia, etc.

I bet that Ellen also heard that Fibromialgia was Real, and a dreadfull disease, for 20 years, when after all is TMS, as we all know.

By the way, Forrest I resolved my chornic pain, when I finaly accepted and embraced, with all my heart and intelegent, TMS. And When I did that, I got better overnight. So when someone says in capital letters that Cancer is not TMS, it is a great statmente, BECAUSE KNOWLADGE IS THE KEY. AND IT WAS KNOWLADGE THAT GOT ME OUT OF MY MISERY and made me come back to the world of the living... There were people that died almost instant, when their drs told them they hat few months to live...

Again Sorry. I'm not sleeping well lately

 

[Bunneh]

Please, try to remain as calm as you can. You need it, and most importantly, your wife needs it. You sound like you're blaming yourself for your wife's illness. This is not the case. 15 years ago my mother was diagnosed with stage III cervical cancer. One of the doctors said she got 6 months to live (he shouldn't have said that, but well...). I was 13 back then and had no one else beside me. I remember when I came to visit her in the hospital. She was so weak that she could barely lift herself on her elbows. That day she PROMISED that she would survive. Yes, it was a long and tough battle. She underwent 13 surgeries and a few bouts of radiotherapy. But she had the most precious gift of all - HOPE. She didn't lose it even for a second! Guess what...she's alive. The cancer never came back.
Support your wife and tell her she can't lose hope. Don't let her lose it. There's always light at the end of the tunnel. It may be a bumpy road but you'll both get through it.
If you of your wife need support, you can PM me anytime.

 

[Forest]

Hi filipe, no worries! My job is just to cool things down periodically and set a couple of rules so people know what is and isn't okay. It sounds like you are fine with that, so we're good.

In my recovery, the most important thing was resuming physical activity. A couple of years later, I got a rash on my right shoulder and I swore it was TMS. I went to a doctor who said it was ringworm, but he also said that the goop he gave me would heal it within two weeks. When it didn't and I went back, he said it was just scar tissue and that it wasn't a problem. It got worse, so I knew he was wrong and once again decided it was TMS. I accepted the diagnosis completely and even brought it up in a presentation I did about TMS in New York. However, I just persisted, itching every day.

About nine months later, I gave up and decided to try another type of goop. That stuff knocked it right out. Go Lotrimin Ultra! I'm just glad that it wasn't a tumor instead of just a little rash that I had ignored. I 100% respect your right to disagree (feel free to tell me 100 reasons why I'm wrong, as long as you do it nicely), but my feeling is that if it had been a tumor and I had ignored it while it metastasized, that could have meant the end for me.

(I'm also glad that I didn't give the ringworm to my little nephew who was just a couple months old at the time and who I got to visit with.)

I'm also hurting a bit myself these days and that may have been part of what made me react strongly. Someone who I really care about recently passed away. She had diabetes and wasn't properly taking care of her diabetes. I told her to do what her doctor ordered, but she was an incredibly stubborn person and I knew it was no hope. She was furiously doing deep psychological work because she believed so deeply in TMS, but her mental state only seemed to deteriorate and I stopped hearing from her as often. You'll probably know who I'm talking about when I say that she recently died of a heart attack, but let's keep it vague.

I keep wondering whether it was not taking her diabetes medicine that lead to her heart disease? Diabetes is a well established risk factor for heart disease:
https://www.google.com/search?q=diabetes+and+heart+disease

As I mentioned before, I expect to be serving this community for the rest of my life. There is a certain sadness that comes with serving people in pain for many years. And I know that, going forward, along with my concerns for another kindly lady (SG), this diabetic's story will be one that I will never forget.

What I want to say is that I don't want to add your wife's name to the list. So, while it sounds like you will probably rely on alternative treatments such as German New Medicine (which is 100% your right), please support her if she wants to take conventional treatments as well.

Every TMS doctor is clear that accurate diagnosis is the first step to rule out anything serious (or structural or organic). I agree with Dr. Sarno that unconscious emotions may play a role in causing cancer. However, once the cancer has started dividing, it seems to be able to grow independent of the mind's influence. The word for cancer comes from the Latin word for crab, and I think of a cancer as being like a crab, eating your other tissues as it grows.

It turns out that this crab can even exist apart from your brain, mind, and body, in a Petri dish (in a lab):
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/C/CancerCellsInCulture.html
And apparently, cancer cells aren't even that hard to grow. According to the last link, "Normal cells are exceedingly fussy about the nutrients that must be supplied to them in their tissue culture medium. Cancer cells ... can usually grow on much simpler culture medium." (see also this how-to manual for culturing cancer cells outside of a body.) There is even one widely distributed strain of cancer cells, known as HeLa cells after Henrietta Lacks, from whom they came, which have been around ever since 1951.

My point here is that if cancer cells can live in a Petri dish, then they aren't dependent on anything from your brain or your mind is doing to survive. They are like that crab I mentioned, living independently inside the body and not dependent on the mind. The mind body connection can be used to fight cancer via the immune system (Psychoneuroimmunology - PNI - that I mentioned in an earlier post), but once the cancer cells are going, it may be required to simply cut the cancer cells out, like cutting the crab out. Radiation or chemicals may help because the cells are dividing so quickly.

Another way of saying it is that if cancer cells can live in a Petri dish, disconnected from a mind and fed only by blood serum from a calf, once a cancer has started then it is more of a body phenomena than a mindbody phenomena. Meditation, hypnosis, yoga and other things may help, but I know that once a cancer has started, I would take full advantage of modern medical science.

Anyway, those are just my two cents.

 

[Colly]

Filipe I'm sorry to hear about your wife. I do believe TMS plays a role in many health issues, including cancer. Don't be consumed with the fear that your own suffering with TMS caused her cancer. What's important now is that you support her fully with her treatment. I also believe TMS healing techniques would be hugely beneficial to her. I found this TED very eye opening and highly recommend it.

Also recommend Dr Emmitt Miller's CD's for cancer recovery: http://drmiller.pinnaclecart.com/cancer-support/

and finally, get hold of 'Getting Well Again' book by Carl Simonton. (see reviews in this link: https://books.google.com.au/books/about/Getting_Well_Again.html?id=4w-vBp44bBQC&hl=en)

Forest, I'm sad about njoy too. You have a big heart Forest, and her life was enriched by your care and support.

 

[Mala]

Hi @filipe, this is a very sensitive topic & I don't want to hurt or offend anyone or their beliefs. I am not in any way qualified to say to anyone what their disease is, how it was caused or even give advice on what treatments they should be looking at. Its a personal journey that one must encounter & any advice given even the smallest bit must NOT in any way cause negative outcomes for anyone.

So I will tell u what I know. The lady in the above video Anita is very well known to me & we were very good friends. We both grew up in HK & even went to the same school. The above video details HER OWN very personal journey, her beliefs & her experience with Hodgkins Lymphona. Its not everyone's story, but yes there are some things u can take from it.

She credits her recovery to a near death experience in which she had some revelations. You will have to read her book 'Dying to be Me' to get more details but there is one very important fact which you must know. When she was first diagnosed she was told that her condition was 'curable' & that proper treatment would most likely help if she started treated immediately. She did NOT start the appropriate treatment then because she had seen her terminally ill best friend 'die horrifically' from a very serious, aggressive form of cancer despite having all the necessary treatments.

So she decided to go down the 'alternative', 'complementary' medicine route & tried everything over many years. You name it, she did it but unfortunately she just got worse, much worse. It was only when she finally took the chemo that she was able to get better. In her case she prolonged the inevitable, the treatment that was suggested to her right from the start. Her reason for not going ahead with the treatment was her fear that she would end up like her friend but what she didn't understand that her kind of cancer was a much more benign, curable form. When she removed her fear & received the right treatment, she was able to get better very quickly.

Whether or not yr wife got the cancer because of you is not relevant right now & u thinking this way will not help her, in fact it will only get in the way. What she needs right now is your love, support, help & for u to be as positive as possible. Do yr research, talk to the doctors, use all available tools for both mind & body ( u r now well aware of the mind body connection) Most importantly ask HER how she wants to proceed with her own treatment. Its about what she believes not what u want. Its about her now, not you.

I completely understand how stressful things must be for you but you will need to be calm, level headed & focussed for her sake as well as your own.

Wishing you & your wife all the best.

Mala

 

[filipe]

Hi thanks for replying.

I always believe in conventional medicine, until I got very sick. I cured my self throght the understanding of psychosomatic medicine. U stop taking drugs. I was always skeptical towards conspiracy theories. I always was thought they were fiction. Until when I was sick. I took all kind of pills. I took all kind of pills and none of them had any effect on my chornic pain. I understood that most drugs are indeed placibos, and that Drs use fear to keep us as their clientes. Fear is what was almost killing me.

Also I saw this vídeo:

Can someone explain me what is the truth behind these natural cancer cures? Does anyone knows what happened to Essiac, or Hoxsey, Vitamin B17? Do they work?

 

[Walt Oleksy (RIP 2021)]

My sister had cancer and took chemo and other treatment but she also believed that prayer helped heal her.
She had a strong belief in God curing her. So too did a friend's wife. She had breast cancer and took the
traditional medical treatments including chemo, but also believed she healed because she prayed to God to her.

Both my sister and friend's wife are now cancer-free. I believe the combination of medical help and prayer
will be helpful to your wife. At the same time, don't load yourself down with guilt that you caused her cancer.
Only God knows that, so don't blame yourself. Just be loving and supportive to your wife.

 

[filipe]

Thank you coly for your wonderful post loved it.

Do you know anything about the Gerson Therapy, fro breats cancer?

 

[filipe]

Thank you coly for your wonderful post loved it. I think you saved my life. My wife also had some friends who dveloped breast cancer... she got fearfull of also developing it. She got obcessed with it and alwasy lookinh at her breasts...

Do you know anything about the Gerson Therapy, fro breats cancer?

 

[Peggy]

Do you know anything about the Gerson Therapy, fro breats cancer?

My sister went to Gerson Clinic to learn the program, she didn't have an ailment. She also went to John of God in Brazil a couple of times for spiritual purposes. There are videos on youtube for both of those.

 

[Forest]

Dr. Sarno is a proud advocate of scientific medicine and was very clear that he did not support physically based "alternative medicine" treatments. In The Mindbody Prescription, he wrote:
Most alternative medical treatments achieve whatever success they enjoy through the placebo effect. If the placebo phenomenon did not exist, neither would most of these treatment methods. They are potentially helpful but they do not cure because the placebo effect is almost invariably temporary. Since most of the musculoskeletal disorders are manifestations of TMS, any treatment method that focuses on the body will perpetuate rather than halt the pain process. So, paradoxically, though the unconventional treatment may give temporary (usually partial) relief, it will often guarantee the continuation of the underlying process because it keeps the patient’s attention focused on the painful body part. I do not approve of most alternative methods of treatment for this reason. The diagnosis and treatment of TMS is not an example of unconventional or holistic medicine; it is good clinical medicine.

I think Dr. Sarno's point is 100% correct and can't support these unsubstantiated physical approaches.

The producer of the "Forbidden Cancer Cures" documentary is named Massimo Mazzucco. He has also produced three documentaries about how he claims that the September 11 attacks were "an inside job." I find that idea absurd and offensive. He has also made documentaries about alleged conspiracies related to Robert Kennedy's assassination and UFOs. I'm not kidding:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massimo_Mazzucco
I wouldn't trust him at all.

Wikipedia has the following to say about Gersom therapy: "The National Cancer Institute evaluated Gerson's claims and concluded that his data showed no benefit from his treatment.[1] The therapy is both ineffective and dangerous.[2][3]"

Similarly, Wikipedia mentioned several studies of Hoxsey's treatments that were conducted by top institutions that found no benefit to the treatment. The American Cancer Association, National Cancer Institute, Sloan-Kettering, and M. D. Anderson have all weighed in against it. But in the portion I saw, Mazzucco neglected to mention this in his film. Why?

He sounds like a quack talking about quack treatments and making money off of DVD sales. He even got involved with someone who claimed that cancer was a fungal infection and then tried to cure it using baking soda. This person eventually went to jail for manslaughter. From Wikipedia:
Some criticism was directed to Mazzucco after his decision, starting September 2008, to publicize an alternative cancer therapy based on Sodium bicarbonate and proposed by Italian ex-doctor Tullio Simoncini. Said therapy is currently unproven, and Simoncini was expelled from the Italian Medical Association after he was tried and found guilty of fraud and manslaughter, since a patient died, allegedly as result of Simoncini’s treatment.[5][6][7][8]

One can still get some of these treatments in Mexico, where companies don't have to prove the effectiveness of their products before setting up shop. We hear about TMS because people's lives are so transformed that they share their stories. If there were some great cure for cancer down in Mexico, we all would have heard about it. People would be setting up nonprofits and eventually some rich person would be saved and give millions, really accelerating progress.

But we don't hear about it. Why? Because its a fraud.

Even if you don't believe that, please do note that this thread is getting off topic. This forum is about mindbody phenomena, but many of the treatments being discussed are primarily physical. Let's get the thread back on topic please.

 

[filipe]

I greed with you. I dind't know who had written this documentary. I don't beleive in all conspiracy theories, only some. I don't beleieve in wikipedia 100% also. There is a lot of information on the web. It is difficult to know the truth... maybe that is what they want.

But I add, both are quack. Conventional medicine and Alternative one. BOTH LIE. They all rely in placebo. They all manipulate results. They all make millions from cancer pseudo Treatments. They are both a fraud. They both kill people and deceive them. So what can we do?

Nevertheless, I think alternative medicine has less side-effects, don't you think? Well, I wouldn't put my back on a chriropratic though...

 

[filipe]

My sister went to Gerson Clinic to learn the program, she didn't have an ailment. She also went to John of God in Brazil a couple of times for spiritual purposes. There are videos on youtube for both of those.

But what did she find there, in México? Did she find a cure for cancer?

 

[Peggy]

I don't think she found any cure. I think maybe she found some healthy strategies for dealing with some things. I think she went for a week and took the class that they offered.