Any post-op meniscectomy patients out there? (torn meniscus)

Un0wut2du

Un0wut2du

Peer Supporter
Hello, my question is very specific to those that have had meniscus tear surgery and continue to run.

I am a 51 year old runner and completed my first half-marathon last fall with hopes to reach a full this fall. I had a meniscus tear "repaired" in November 2014. Anterior left side. I believe they removed 15% but am not certain. I went back to running on schedule per doc orders six weeks later in Feb of 2015. I have battled through pain with this knee the entire time and have now reached a point where I hurt worse then ever in the location of the surgery and can no longer run. I have fear attached to this which keeps me from running as well as severe pain.

I believe very much in TMS and the therapy as it has helped me clear up other pains: tail bone, right foot arch, numb arms every morning from supposed pinched ulnar. I have off and on success with left trapezius and left buttocks from supposed pinched piriformis or sciatica. (I still maintain significant pain in my left groin that just has to be TMS.)

The knee has me crazy as I have now convinced myself that this pain CANT be TMS because I ALLOWED them to remove a piece of cartilage unnecessarily. It "must be arthritis and bone on bone now" is what I keep telling myself. But, I also tell myself its total bull sh*t because the ENTIRE knee hurts. They didn't operate on my entire knee. That's gotta be on me.

I am just dying to know of someone out there that has had this procedure and is now pain free. I am struggling badly.
 
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Hi there!

I can't say I personally have had this procedure but as a PT i've seen people recover fully from it and go back to running and other sports pain-free, though it can take a while for full healing and rehab to strengthen back up to the point of running. But lots of people do achieve it. As you know, TMS can often piggyback on after a surgical procedure, its likely this could be the cause of your pain. Another helpful fact is that many people who technically have arthritis in a joint (bone on bone) don't have any pain. And many people whose scans only show mild arthritis have severe pain! Hope that helps.
 
That is fantastic information and just the type of positive info I need to fight off....myself!! I am ALMOST certain that I'm my own worst enemy here. I still have this doubt to get over and that's why I am here. What I cant get is a straight answer for doctors and learning about TMS helps me realize why. They dont know. I ask "is what I am feeling arthritis?" thinking there is a direct answer for my description and I get a blank stare.

It hurts while sitting and when I wake up which tells me TMS but then I go up and down stairs with pain and I let doubt creep in.

What would you say as a PT if I told you I could put full weight on this knee without pain but that it was the "hinging" process that caused discomfort? Does that sound like TMS or arthritis?
 
Un0wut2du said:
That is fantastic information and just the type of positive info I need to fight off....myself!! I am ALMOST certain that I'm my own worst enemy here. I still have this doubt to get over and that's why I am here. What I cant get is a straight answer for doctors and learning about TMS helps me realize why. They dont know. I ask "is what I am feeling arthritis?" thinking there is a direct answer for my description and I get a blank stare.

It hurts while sitting and when I wake up which tells me TMS but then I go up and down stairs with pain and I let doubt creep in.

What would you say as a PT if I told you I could put full weight on this knee without pain but that it was the "hinging" process that caused discomfort? Does that sound like TMS or arthritis?
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I really believe what you're experiencing is TMS. You (or anyone with knee pain over a certain age) may or may not have arthritis but in my opinion the pain isn't correlated with severity of arthritis appearing on imaging. Lots of people with TMS pain have it during certain activities like stairs. I myself occasionally get patellofemoral pain (pain in the front to the knee) that I believe to be mostly TMS, which can occur during stairs, and I'm not at the right age to have arthritis and don't worry about it. I have patients and relatives with arthritis that comes up on scans but they can do lots of things pain free. Try to put arthritis in the same category as all other "normal abnormalities" that occur with age, like herniated discs and other spinal issues. Recall that arthritis can occur in the spine as well, which Sarno talks a lot about, but doesn't reliably correlate with pain. There's nothing special or different about the knee.
 
OK, one more and I'm done. I have this image in my head of an open space left by the meniscectomy. So, in my mental head I think its just bone on bone. Or is what's left of the meniscus created the proper separation? Thank you for all of your assistance. I believe in this.
 
Hi there. I know we're talking knees here but Google "your back is not out of alignment " by Paul Ingraham. In the article he talks about the results of the "sham" knee study. This is a great article for all TMSers as it debunks structuralism, citing legit studies. It's an eye opener. Hope this helps.
 
Hi UnOwut2du,

I have a relative who went through two rounds of surgery for a meniscus tear. He's just a few years younger than you and ran marathons all over the world. After the first surgery he took up bike riding and carried on with that after the second surgery. Other family members were thrilled that he wouldn't be running any more. I believe he was due for a third surgery but decided to forgo that I guess. Much to the dismay of those other family members, he's back running in marathons again. I wanted to broach the subject of TMS with him when he was told he needed surgery the first time around but his doctor was the top surgeon in the country for this procedure. I couldn't compete against that. After his second surgery my knee began to trouble me out of the blue. I'm not a runner so I just put it down to worry over my family member. I was feeling his pain, literally.

I'm glad he's back doing what he loves and he's okay. You will be too. Visualise yourself running rather than with holes in your knee.
 
This great infor. For anyone following this post here are the links that Mtngal referenced:
yb44 said:
Hi UnOwut2du,

I have a relative who went through two rounds of surgery for a meniscus tear. He's just a few years younger than you and ran marathons all over the world. After the first surgery he took up bike riding and carried on with that after the second surgery. Other family members were thrilled that he wouldn't be running any more. I believe he was due for a third surgery but decided to forgo that I guess. Much to the dismay of those other family members, he's back running in marathons again. I wanted to broach the subject of TMS with him when he was told he needed surgery the first time around but his doctor was the top surgeon in the country for this procedure. I couldn't compete against that. After his second surgery my knee began to trouble me out of the blue. I'm not a runner so I just put it down to worry over my family member. I was feeling his pain, literally.

I'm glad he's back doing what he loves and he's okay. You will be too. Visualise yourself running rather than with holes in your knee.
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Right!! Its the holes in my head that need fixing! Thank you YB. I too had a 'top surgeon' in the Chicago area. Operates on the Blackhawks and Bears players etc. He told me "stop running." I think thats bull sh*t. Just needed some support up here cuz I was kicking myself for learning this stuff AFTER the surgery. What made me maddest was that I bought "Mind Body Prescription" when it came out in the late 90's, read 40 pages and it sat in a box until six weeks ago. Anyway, now I am eating this stuff up. Cant go backwards (even though I try...) Thanks again!
 
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Mtngal said:
Hi there. I know we're talking knees here but Google "your back is not out of alignment " by Paul Ingraham. In the article he talks about the results of the "sham" knee study. This is a great article for all TMSers as it debunks structuralism, citing legit studies. It's an eye opener. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much Mtngal. This is the type of thing that helps me resolve or solve my fears.
For anyone that may be following this thread here are links to the articles Mtgal has referenced:

What makes knee arthritis more likely after meniscectomy? What doesn’t?
https://www.painscience.com/biblio/what-makes-knee-arthritis-more-likely-after-meniscectomy-what-doesnt.html (What makes knee arthritis more likely after meniscectomy? What doesn’t?)

The above article comes from:

Your Back Is Not Out of Alignment
https://www.painscience.com/articles/structuralism.php (Your Back Is Not Out of Alignment)

From the New England Journal of Medicine report: This is a a study where some received the procedure I did and the other half did not. Both groups had similar results.

Arthroscopic Partial Meniscectomy versus Sham Surgery for a Degenerative Meniscal Tear
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1305189#t=article (MMS: Error)




 
Un0wut2du said:

Thank you so much Mtngal. This is the type of thing that helps me resolve or solve my fears.
For anyone that may be following this thread here are links to the articles Mtgal has referenced:

What makes knee arthritis more likely after meniscectomy? What doesn’t?
https://www.painscience.com/biblio/what-makes-knee-arthritis-more-likely-after-meniscectomy-what-doesnt.html (What makes knee arthritis more likely after meniscectomy? What doesn’t?)

The above article comes from:

Your Back Is Not Out of Alignment
https://www.painscience.com/articles/structuralism.php (Your Back Is Not Out of Alignment)

From the New England Journal of Medicine report: This is a a study where some received the procedure I did and the other half did not. Both groups had similar results.

Arthroscopic Partial Meniscectomy versus Sham Surgery for a Degenerative Meniscal Tear
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1305189#t=article (MMS: Error)
Click to expand...
 
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