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Anger at oneself?

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by rabbit, Mar 26, 2015.

  1. rabbit

    rabbit Peer Supporter

    Was wondering if others have discovered at lot of anger at oneself in the process. I wonder if the pain in some way is the brain "punishing" oneself. (Super smart and kind and logical of that brain indeed!) Or at least repressing the anger at oneself.
    Lizzy likes this.
  2. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    Good question. The pain is a form of self punishment. It prevents the expression of the fear and anger over emotions that are too sad, too powerful, or too threatening. It helps us to cope when we don't want to be somewhere but have to go, to go somewhere where we don't want to be, to be silent when we want to say something, and to punish, as Groddek said, "a sin against a commandment." We don't feel worthy, or when we feel shamed we internalize the rage that disrupts the attunement of the autonomic nervous system, that reduces the blood flow, and wreaks havoc across all of its functions.

    The chain reaction of errors all begins with the thought process. To heal, the thinking has to be change to self worth.

    TMS is a survival mechanism, aimed at helping us. The proof is that it's NOT the good feeling emotions causing TMS, like love and peace and joy, it's the ones we deem as dangerous to our survival, or in most cases of TMS, dangerous to our self image (which we deem as needed for our survival)

    nowtimecoach and Lizzy like this.
  3. rabbit

    rabbit Peer Supporter

    Thanks Steve. I keep coming back to the same darn thing: I've been in therapy for a long time with a great therapist, dug up just about as much as there is, really know myself I think - my good qualities, bad qualities etc etc. Other than my fixation on the TMS going away, why wont it go away!!!???? :)
  4. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    because it's still helping you
  5. rabbit

    rabbit Peer Supporter

    I guess i just have to figure out HOW its still helping me...
    mdh157 likes this.
  6. mdh157

    mdh157 Well known member

    I have........took a job promo last June for a bit more $$ and realized giving up my great sched, laid back work environment and company car wasn't worth the miniscule difference in pay. Been kicking myself since the fall.
  7. Andy Bayliss

    Andy Bayliss TMS Coach & Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Rabbit,
    I think as we understand ourselves more deeply, we become more and more contact with self-rejection, anger at self, self-hate. It is very painful to feel this ---what most of us used to be unaware of. For me, it was easier to live in ignorance of the way part of me treats myself!

    In my TMS healing journey, I already had a felt sense of that self-rejection before I learned about Dr. Sarno. He says that the Superego, (which is often actively doing self-rejection) is making the inner child feel wrong and bad. Then the inner child is enraged (or feels hurt or ashamed, etc.). This all made immediate sense to me, because I had explored these dynamics for so long in myself. What Dr. Sarno's theory said made complete sense, based my psychodynamic experience. On a simple level, that much self-hate can create huge symptoms!

    I believe my experience of knowing these experiences in my body really helped to accept that TMS is real, and pointed to the cause. So it helped me cognitively embrace the method. It may help you too, to think of the sheer level of self-rejection that you are aware of as being fuel for TMS, somewhat as you have suggested.

    However, I don't think the pain is acting out anger on ourselves. It is a distraction. Distracting ourselves from the rage caused by our self-hate. When you link your experience of anger-at-self to the suffering and activated inner child, you have the cause of your pain, and it takes you deeper into the understanding. You know the real cause, which is the "cure." You've seen behind the curtain. And anger at self is key to understanding and unraveling TMS (at least for me).

    Steve may be right about it being a "punishment." But the punishment isn't so much pain as a form of self-hate, as it is "you better not feel this." That is the way I read this.

    I firmly believe that the tendency for self-hate does not go away in this life-time. It operates because it is a survival piece and is part of our ego structure. (There are more and less skillful ways of attending to it of course.) The self-hate might create TMS symptoms if we are not seeing through the process. But when we can see its effects in creating TMS, this can undo the TMS.

    The more I think about these things, the more I realize I just string along certain beliefs based on Dr. Sarno's work and my experience. I think ultimately there may be many avenues within Sarno to find the "cure." Your thoughts?

    Andy B.
    PamD and IrishSceptic like this.
  8. IrishSceptic

    IrishSceptic Podcast Visionary

    Rabbit I think Einstein summed it up better than I.

    ''We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.''

    many new to the idea of TMS may think this is patient blaming but when you discover the process it allows you to take ownership of your problems. acknowledge they are there but tell your brain that you have had enough. stand up to the bully and be free.
    I'm still learning how to do this and have been fooled multiple times back into the mode of self-pity once the familiar old pains surface again!

    Sure enough when I read a few pages of HBP I get my confidence back and say hey...its not permanent, it is reversible and in fact inevitably so!
  9. Walt Oleksy

    Walt Oleksy Beloved Grand Eagle

    I'm 84, a lifelong Catholic, and if Jewish people think they have the market cornered on guilt,
    step aside for me. I've felt guilty all my life (sexual, but won't say what), and what a waste of time.

    In recent years, new Catholic teachings are such that everything I thought was a sin and felt guilty about
    is no longer considered a sin. I've also read books about priests who were doing things a lot worse then I.
    And that's not to mention the priest pedophiles.

    So now I just ask God to forgive me, and that's that. I don't ask that over and over.
    God hears me and forgives, even if at times I think his computer is down.
    nowtimecoach and IrishSceptic like this.
  10. Lizzy

    Lizzy Well known member

    Rabbit, the timing of your question is perfect. I was journaling two days ago about anger I was having toward someone. I had no reason for the anger, so suspected there was something deeper. I had an aha moment. This person had done something super nice for me, that had alot of self sacrifice, and no strings. Truly, no strings.

    I realised my inner child really resents this. The parent is harping you must be eternally, hugely grateful, and that little kid is saying "I don't want to owe anyone!!!". Then I could see the anger is really towards myself. The other person did this good deed and has never said another word, the conflict is all inside me. I guess I felt anger when I thought of her, so I thought I was angry with her, which wasn't acceptable? I don't know. Still a bit muddled about me and my "stuff".

    Also, I think this involves more than just this relationship, I think I push people away when they offer help of any kind. I am kind of tit for tat, and I want my independence, which isolates.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2015
  11. Alan Gordon LCSW

    Alan Gordon LCSW TMS Therapist

    ISTDP practitioners look at anger at oneself not as a true outlet of repressed rage, but rather the defense mechanism of "self-attack." According to this theory, you may have learned early on that anger toward your parents was not okay- perhaps you got punished when you got angry, or maybe you came to see one or both of your parents as fragile and unable to tolerate your anger, and as a result developed the defense mechanism of self-attack to keep you from your true feelings of rage. Essentially putting the anger on yourself to protect your mind from feeling anger toward them.
  12. Lizzy

    Lizzy Well known member

    Ouch. We learned a lot of things when we were 5 that are not serving us as adults.
  13. Walt Oleksy

    Walt Oleksy Beloved Grand Eagle

    I'm reminded of the old song, "You Always Hurt the One You Love," sung by the Mills Brothers.
    I think it often applies to hurting our self when in fact we should love (or at least like) our self.
    Lizzy likes this.
  14. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    Well said Alan, as always, nice and concise. You know you're very good at this stuff. You should open up some type of center, perhaps a psychology center, to help people in pain.

    Rabbit, your pain is helping you to live your daily life. By turning the rage inward in the form of symptoms, you prevent others from seeing you in a full blown panic, or rage. So, on that end it helps you to protect your self image. On the other end, it helps you to never experience the true emotion behind the symptoms. As the human brain is wired today (most likely due to social constructs) it chooses pain over emotion. And, you have no choice in the matter.

    So, your pain is a shield between your unconscious and conscious, to help you avoid certain things and to help you hide certain things.

    As far as your not getting better, or as you wrote, <<"I've been in therapy for a long time with a great therapist, dug up just about as much as there is, really know myself I think - my good qualities, bad qualities etc etc. Other than my fixation on the TMS going away, why wont it go away!!!????">>

    Dr. Sarno stated that you can have the best therapy in the world but it won't help unless it's tied to what's going on in the mindbody. If I can recall it correctly, he said, "They can go to the best psychologists in the world, and deal with all the important issues in their lives, and the pain will continue. They have to know the relationship between what's going on psychologically and what's going on physically...otherwise they cannot get better."

    So, perhaps you're not doing "TMS therapy" and not properly connecting the symptom to the emotions-unfelt. It's worth considering that you may be doing the "wrong type of therapy." I can't know, of course. But for certain, the "digging up" of past things doesn't work well.

    The good news is that you can heal. Patience, persistence, relaxation, self compassion, love, and tequila. These are the keys to healing. Let go, and get out and have some fun, become a siwee wabbit for a change.
    Neil, Ewok, Edmond and 1 other person like this.
  15. Ellen

    Ellen Beloved Grand Eagle

    This is the first time I've heard about tequila being a key to healing. You've been holding out on us, Steve! I knew I was missing a key ingredient....
    wendyd and nowtimecoach like this.
  16. Helenback

    Helenback New Member

    I prefer cosmopolitans, as the cranberry juice can help alleviate urinary track infections!
  17. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    I prefer what anyone else is buying. It always tastes better. So who's buying?
    IrishSceptic likes this.
  18. Ellen

    Ellen Beloved Grand Eagle

    @Forest usually picks up the tab around here :)
  19. Steve Ozanich

    Steve Ozanich TMS Consultant

    Okay Forest, open this bar up and hand over the credit card.
  20. UFGatormom

    UFGatormom New Member

    Did somebody mention tequila?!! Have lived in Florida for 43 years and have been to many Jimmy Buffett concerts...it is 5 o'clock somewhere; actually its way past 5 so Margaritas in the blender :)))))
    IrishSceptic likes this.

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