Almost 2 years of trying to resolve intense sciatic pain using TMS

Yes, assuming they are (it's not the only key but it is very important) - you don't have to have super strong belief straight away, but as you shift your mindset and begin to think psychologically your evidence will grow. As your evidence grows you'll naturally have increased belief.



Love this :)



I understand this based on how we are conditioned (and biologically wired), but when it comes to TMS you're operating on a false premise. As Dr Sarno said, TMS often creates the worst symptoms and through his work he couldn't find anything biologically/structurally that could cause the level of symptoms that TMS could. That doesn't mean I'm saying you 100% have TMS, it's just that there's no correlation (you could even argue there's a negative correlation based on what Dr Sarno said) between the intensity of symptoms and a structural issue. Your brain is saying "this is so intense, there must be something wrong" - but it's not true. I would start with counteracting these thoughts with this new knowledge :)

Adam - thank you. I am pretty damn confident these symptoms are due to TMS, but I still have not been able to reliably lessen the pain levels. I may just have to go forward and try to expand my world and take the symptoms with me. One thing is I don't have any weakness or neurological deficits, but man the pain can be just horrible.
 
Adam - thank you. I am pretty damn confident these symptoms are due to TMS, but I still have not been able to reliably lessen the pain levels. I may just have to go forward and try to expand my world and take the symptoms with me. One thing is I don't have any weakness or neurological deficits, but man the pain can be just horrible.

You're welcome :)

Keep in mind too that even small changes (from a mindset perspective) can make a massive difference:

I understand this based on how we are conditioned (and biologically wired), but when it comes to TMS you're operating on a false premise. As Dr Sarno said, TMS often creates the worst symptoms and through his work he couldn't find anything biologically/structurally that could cause the level of symptoms that TMS could. That doesn't mean I'm saying you 100% have TMS, it's just that there's no correlation (you could even argue there's a negative correlation based on what Dr Sarno said) between the intensity of symptoms and a structural issue. Your brain is saying "this is so intense, there must be something wrong" - but it's not true. I would start with counteracting these thoughts with this new knowledge :)

If you really sit in this and take it on board (just as an example), it can take a lot of the fear and doubt away (which is a main driver of symptoms). Believing it consciously is one thing, but you need to align your thoughts and behaviours as best as possible with the belief.
 
I have tried to uncover sources of possible repressed emotions
In my observations, "trying to uncover... possible repressed emotions" is a common activity that rarely seems to produce tangible results.

What I'm talking about is to stop trying, and instead start paying attention to the random thoughts that make you so damn uncomfortable that you would rather do or think or talk about anything else. They occur all day long - some turn out to be laughable, some are pretty mundane but somehow are interpreted by our subconscious brains as threatening to our emotional well-being (such as obligations and expectations), while others create pressure and self-judgment (relationship issues) and still others are existentially terrifying (mortality and isolation). They often overlap.

Another way to think of repressed emotions is that there is some kind of internal emotional conflict that causes a stress response in our nervous system whenever we randomly think about it - which our primitive brains automatically (usually erroneously) interpret as an immediate life-threatening danger, which causes an immediate cascade of physiological responses. These are collectively referred to as fight/flight/freeze, but also include things like long-term inflammation and unsustainable cortisol levels, plus we get the repression of those random thoughts using distraction techniques (symptoms) until we are no longer consciously aware of them.

It's a vicious cycle and combination of factors that is hard to untangle IF you spend too much time thinking about it. The key is to stop thinking about it so much, and instead, engage in exercises which allow the random thoughts to appear in a safe environment, while you practice acknowledging them and examining them and ultimately accepting them - no matter how mundane they might at first appear. FYI, any thoughts you have of "Dude, THIS isn't important, you don't have to look at it, just move on to the next thing" is a trick of your brain.

The purpose of free-writing exercises is to allow those random thoughts to emerge from their unconscious repressed hiding places, out into the open without any kind of filter or editing getting in the way. These exercises come under the heading of "journaling" but we throw out what we write in these exercises, because we're not trying to keep a journal and we don't need to revisit an issue on paper once we've brought it into consciousness. The best free-writing is actually done so fast that it's illegible, and it ignores spelling, grammar, punctuation, and any form of editing whatsoever. Ink pen on paper is the best medium to discourage editing or worrying about readability. I call it "writing shit down" rather than "journaling". Nicole Sachs calls it JournalSpeak, while Dr. David Hanscom calls it "expressive writing". They both advocate tossing what you write.

it just occurred to me that I have not looked that seriously at my marriage as a source of my repressed rage. Believe it or not, this is true! Also, I am 68 and my GI symptoms started at 65, the same age as when my dad died. So, like you, aging and mortality is a big part of my struggle.
There ya go. Two great topics to explore. To get started, google "free-writing exercises for emotional release". Tons of resources. I like one description of "continuous" writing. No stopping, no going back, no editing. One way to start is to literally ask yourself a question - "how am I feeling right now about ___?" Another way is to make a list of things that are on your mind. Your symptoms will probably head the list, but after that... you just keep going, even if you only write down something like "okay, what irritated me today?" or "what's worrying me right now?" Then start writing about the thing on that list that makes you the most uncomfortable, if you can! If not, keep it for later - don't keep repressing it!

As for the aging trigger, I found that the practice of Existential Psychotherapy is super-simple to understand, and, with its focus on the Four Core Issues, aging is covered by all of them: Freedom, Meaning, Isolation/Abandonment, and of course Mortality. These four issues provide a wealth of opportunities for free-writing exercises. I describe my understanding and use of EP here: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/who-all-journaled-in-their-healing-process.24313/#post-126503 although I believe that individual was a lot younger than we are.
 
hi Warren it's Beatrice. I totally get it. My pain is in different places I also do have back pain now and I'm afraid to get it looked at, but I have a lot of joint pain and muscle pain body wide and mostly my ankles which keep me from walking at all Plus, I'm pretty sure I have central sensation so CRPS so I'm also more debilitated and feeling like how much more work can I do on this stuff since I've been doing it for two years as well And I have looked at every emotional psychological personality issue, and yet my fear increases . if you ever want to chat, just let me know. I don't know if we can somehow support each other through this even if we both have a lot of doubt.
 
You're welcome :)

Keep in mind too that even small changes (from a mindset perspective) can make a massive difference:



If you really sit in this and take it on board (just as an example), it can take a lot of the fear and doubt away (which is a main driver of symptoms). Believing it consciously is one thing, but you need to align your thoughts and behaviours as best as possible with the belief.
In my observations, "trying to uncover... possible repressed emotions" is a common activity that rarely seems to produce tangible results.

What I'm talking about is to stop trying, and instead start paying attention to the random thoughts that make you so damn uncomfortable that you would rather do or think or talk about anything else. They occur all day long - some turn out to be laughable, some are pretty mundane but somehow are interpreted by our subconscious brains as threatening to our emotional well-being (such as obligations and expectations), while others create pressure and self-judgment (relationship issues) and still others are existentially terrifying (mortality and isolation). They often overlap.

Another way to think of repressed emotions is that there is some kind of internal emotional conflict that causes a stress response in our nervous system whenever we randomly think about it - which our primitive brains automatically (usually erroneously) interpret as an immediate life-threatening danger, which causes an immediate cascade of physiological responses. These are collectively referred to as fight/flight/freeze, but also include things like long-term inflammation and unsustainable cortisol levels, plus we get the repression of those random thoughts using distraction techniques (symptoms) until we are no longer consciously aware of them.

It's a vicious cycle and combination of factors that is hard to untangle IF you spend too much time thinking about it. The key is to stop thinking about it so much, and instead, engage in exercises which allow the random thoughts to appear in a safe environment, while you practice acknowledging them and examining them and ultimately accepting them - no matter how mundane they might at first appear. FYI, any thoughts you have of "Dude, THIS isn't important, you don't have to look at it, just move on to the next thing" is a trick of your brain.

The purpose of free-writing exercises is to allow those random thoughts to emerge from their unconscious repressed hiding places, out into the open without any kind of filter or editing getting in the way. These exercises come under the heading of "journaling" but we throw out what we write in these exercises, because we're not trying to keep a journal and we don't need to revisit an issue on paper once we've brought it into consciousness. The best free-writing is actually done so fast that it's illegible, and it ignores spelling, grammar, punctuation, and any form of editing whatsoever. Ink pen on paper is the best medium to discourage editing or worrying about readability. I call it "writing shit down" rather than "journaling". Nicole Sachs calls it JournalSpeak, while Dr. David Hanscom calls it "expressive writing". They both advocate tossing what you write.


There ya go. Two great topics to explore. To get started, google "free-writing exercises for emotional release". Tons of resources. I like one description of "continuous" writing. No stopping, no going back, no editing. One way to start is to literally ask yourself a question - "how am I feeling right now about ___?" Another way is to make a list of things that are on your mind. Your symptoms will probably head the list, but after that... you just keep going, even if you only write down something like "okay, what irritated me today?" or "what's worrying me right now?" Then start writing about the thing on that list that makes you the most uncomfortable, if you can! If not, keep it for later - don't keep repressing it!

As for the aging trigger, I found that the practice of Existential Psychotherapy is super-simple to understand, and, with its focus on the Four Core Issues, aging is covered by all of them: Freedom, Meaning, Isolation/Abandonment, and of course Mortality. These four issues provide a wealth of opportunities for free-writing exercises. I describe my understanding and use of EP here: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/who-all-journaled-in-their-healing-process.24313/#post-126503 (Who all journaled in their healing process) although I believe that individual was a lot younger than we are.

OK, I may have undersold how much emotional work I have done. 30 years of psychotherapy, numerous TMS coaches digging into the possible repressed emotions leading to symptoms. I have been working intensely with Dan Ratner for the last 15 months and have made real gains in his system, but my pain is no better.

I have intensely dug into my awful childhood, with a rageful, drunk and violent father, who threatened to kill me and sexually assaulted my sister, and an equally rageful and narcissistic mother. The combination, of course, made me feel unsafe. My options were to retreat into a place of existential loneliness or face malevolence from both parents, who both intended to harm me at times. I am not a big religious guy, but I believe I know what's it's like to be on the other side of evil as a child.

I have had mind body symptoms my whole life, but the last two years have been terrible much of the time. I have seem some amazing recovery stories here by Roguewave, Rita, Ellen, JanAtthe CPA, etc. Here is one that resonated with me from Ellen of Jan. 4, 2025.

"I look at it this way (today anyway). If you subscribe to Sarno's theory that the purpose of TMS is as a distraction, then there are two ways to address this:

1) Don't allow TMS to distract you. This is where ignoring it, not fearing the symptoms, etc. comes in.
2) Remove the underlying need for a distraction. This is where addressing the psychological aspects comes in (emotions and thinking). Can be done through self-help means like journaling or with help through psychotherapy.


I was first able to get rid of my TMS by #1, but ultimately had to address #2.

And another from
 
@warren23
Being in more pain right now actually makes sense to me. You are reliving your horrors, which are many, and I am so sorry you had to endure all that you did. It is pure evil, and no child should have to go through it.
I think a few things could be going on but #1 is that right now you still don't feel safe. You may now feel "safer" with your past and know that as an adult you have escaped those immediate horrors, but do you feel safe with your physical pain? Are you still looking at working with Dan and anything else you are doing as something to directly fix the pain? This might not be a conscious motive at all, but I think it can often feed into things a bit. Mostly I think just having to re-live such horrific emotional pains and associated emotions and the judgements we make about ourselves as being damaged, tainted, etc. (conscious or unconscious) - all those judgements caused by the anger, guilt, shame etc. are just so heavy and sticky.
Have you thought about taking a "TMS break" - just not doing anything for awhile and seeing how you feel about it, or does the idea of this scare you?
When I was in my worst pain, fear, anxiety, depression faze, I decided to take a TMS break and see how it felt. Just the idea of "quitting" was terrifying! I was giving up on myself! I wasn't doing to be "fixing" all that is "wrong with me". The only thing I continued was meditation. It didn't help my pain, but it did alleviate a lot of associated symptoms I'd been having and it helped me realize I was doing all the TMS stuff to stop the pain and fix it "for good" because I was terrified of the pain.

Then I was able to get back to doing the work - and at times I've had a lot less pain (symptoms have been high right now for a few months again, but it makes sense so I am not worrying about it, and trying not to get frustrated and let it be a distraction) but I have consistently been able to focus more on working on mindset, fear, day to day emotional stuff, and placing my mind on things I'd rather focus on than the symptoms and the process of digging up the past. At some point I think we just have to recognize that the past is done with and to teach our brain we're safe we just have to move on. That includes thinking that there are "problems" and just let our minds to the work of healing. We can get back to doing the work again when we want to, but taking a break might be what we need. This crap is so full of self-pressure to succeed.
 
1) Don't allow TMS to distract you. This is where ignoring it, not fearing the symptoms, etc. comes in.
2) Remove the underlying need for a distraction. This is where addressing the psychological aspects comes in (emotions and thinking). Can be done through self-help means like journaling or with help through psychotherapy.


I was first able to get rid of my TMS by #1, but ultimately had to address #2.

I appreciate you sharing further and it's good to know that you've really delved into the emotional work (you've been through a hell of a lot though and you really are a hero survivor because of it - you should give yourself a lot of credit). What I was saying though (my quote you quoted) had more to do with number 1 - I was addressing the fear of the symptoms and the idea that because they symptom is really bad that doesn't necessarily mean it's structural - I was talking about mindset from that perspective I wasn't talking about the deeper emotional work (just in case there was a misunderstanding, because Jan was talking about something completely different to me and we were quoted together - it seemed as if your response was based on what she said).
 
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