Almost 2 years of trying to resolve intense sciatic pain using TMS

[warren23]

I have worked with four TMS coaches in individual sessions, participated in groups with Dan Buglio and Dan Ratner, watched 1000’s of videos, read or reread many TMS books, etc.

All to no avail, in fact I am arguably worse than ever as the pain has spread from my calf to my leg, and now to my butt. I do have an MRI which suggests I may have a structural problem. I have had many symptoms in my life which were TMS, but this sciatic pain is not responding. I am considering a surgical consult, as I have had some degree of sciatic pain for the last 15+ years, after having terrible back and leg pain which started in 2008.

I was able to use Sarno's teachings in the past to successfully resolve back pain, brutal GI symptoms, and other symptoms. But not the sciatica, despite my very best efforts.

What do folks here think? Thank you in advance.

 

[BruceMC]

I have worked with four TMS coaches in individual sessions, participated in groups with Dan Buglio and Dan Ratner, watched 1000’s of videos, read or reread many TMS books, etc.

All to no avail, in fact I am arguably worse than ever as the pain has spread from my calf to my leg, and now to my butt. I do have an MRI which suggests I may have a structural problem. I have had many symptoms in my life which were TMS, but this sciatic pain is not responding. I am considering a surgical consult, as I have had some degree of sciatic pain for the last 15+ years, after having terrible back and leg pain which started in 2008.

I was able to use Sarno's teachings in the past to successfully resolve back pain, brutal GI symptoms, and other symptoms. But not the sciatica, despite my very best efforts.

What do folks here think? Thank you in advance.

Very odd, I've had sciatic pain on and off (with intermissions) since the early 2010s and before. Only now it seems to be disappearing when I hike and exercise. I just don't seem to notice it as intensely anymore and my muscular coordination is much much better and more flexible. I guess you could call it the result of being basically indifferent to it for a long long while and now by not trying to do anything about it. No individual therapeutic modality seems to have worked so much as just sticking to a intense regime of activity.

 

[warren23]

Sounds like the less focus you give the sciatica, the better. Also, I like your comment about sticking to intense physical exercise.

My challenge is the pain is far too intense most of the time to focus on much of anything else. Sometimes, exercise is very difficult to do at all. I am going to try some pain killers, and see if they at least help reduce the intensity of the pain.

 

[Diana-M]

I was able to use Sarno's teachings in the past to successfully resolve back pain, brutal GI symptoms, and other symptoms

. I have had many symptoms in my life which were TMS

Hi Warren,
The fact that Sarno has worked for you before and you have a history of TMS makes me think this is TMS. Plus, sciatica is a common spot for TMS. Just because it’s stubborn doesn’t mean it’s not TMS. It just means you haven’t done what it takes to get rid of it yet. I have almost your same story. It’s frustrating to not get results after so much effort. But you could get some unneeded surgery then recover from that and still have pain and STILL have to do more work. I’d just keep doing your TMS homework. How much journaling have you done? Have you had psychotherapy? You’re going to have to dig in deeper to your truths. What’s got you subconsciously filled with rage?

 

[warren23]

Hi Warren,
The fact that Sarno has worked for you before and you have a history of TMS makes me think this is TMS. Plus, sciatica is a common spot for TMS. Just because it’s stubborn doesn’t mean it’s not TMS. It just means you haven’t done what it takes to get rid of it yet. I have almost your same story. It’s frustrating to not get results after so much effort. But you could get some unneeded surgery then recover from that and still have pain and STILL have to do more work. I’d just keep doing your TMS homework. How much journaling have you done? Have you had psychotherapy? You’re going to have to dig in deeper to your truths. What’s got you subconsciously filled with rage?

Diana - thanks for your reply. I have nearly 20 years of psychotherapy, at the end focused on the sciatica. I have delved deeply into my psyche and family background with Dan Ratner, a TMS informed therapist. None of it seems to matter.

 

[Diana-M]

None of it seems to matter.

Read some of my posts. I’m on here every day. I have 10 years of therapy. A book cure. Studied TMS til I’m blue. Recurring TMS. Sciatica for 30 years (it was one of my first symptoms.) Been on the forum for 16 months. Got my symptoms to go down from 16 to 4. All I can say is: what choice do we have? We have to keep chiseling on this brick wall, and one day it will come down. That’s the tactic I’m going to take. But if you get surgery—we’ll be here when you come back.

 

[warren23]

Read some of my posts. I’m on here every day. I have 10 years of therapy. A book cure. Studied TMS til I’m blue. Recurring TMS. Sciatica for 30 years (it was one of my first symptoms.) Been on the forum for 16 months. Got my symptoms to go down from 16 to 4. All I can say is: what choice do we have? We have to keep chiseling on this brick wall, and one day it will come down. That’s the tactic I’m going to take. But if you get surgery—we’ll be here when you come back.

Diana - do you have an MRI directly correlating with your sciatica? That's my biggest challenge.

 

[Barkis]

I have worked with four TMS coaches in individual sessions, participated in groups with Dan Buglio and Dan Ratner, watched 1000’s of videos, read or reread many TMS books, etc.

All to no avail, in fact I am arguably worse than ever as the pain has spread from my calf to my leg, and now to my butt. I do have an MRI which suggests I may have a structural problem. I have had many symptoms in my life which were TMS, but this sciatic pain is not responding. I am considering a surgical consult, as I have had some degree of sciatic pain for the last 15+ years, after having terrible back and leg pain which started in 2008.

I was able to use Sarno's teachings in the past to successfully resolve back pain, brutal GI symptoms, and other symptoms. But not the sciatica, despite my very best efforts.

What do folks here think? Thank you in advance.

I have stubborn left sided symptoms which include lower back pain, leg pain, abdominal tension, si joint pain and digestive issues. But, If it's any comfort I got rid of about 40 years of chronic tension headache (daily for the latter ten years) along with a whole host of other disturbing symptoms. I had every test imaginable and the only thing they found was some evidence of arthritis in my neck which thankfully the consultant said this was not causing pain. One day, I literally sat myself down and somehow had what I called an epiphany moment. I realised that all this was stress related (anger) and I kid you not the headaches and other symptoms melted away. I was in fact suicidal before this epiphany and was having intense psychological intervention not to mention being essentially guarded 24 hours a day for 6 months.

The reason I am replying is not to gloat in being cured - far from it with my current symptoms but rather to tell you that healing is possible no matter how long the symptoms or pain.

There is a massive correlation with stress/anxiety and for me - anger! It seems ridiculous but the resolution of pain for me was seemingly miraculous but it happened. Unfortunately, I'm incredibly prone to the symptom imperative which is why I hang around here.

 

[BloodMoon]

Diana - do you have an MRI directly correlating with your sciatica? That's my biggest challenge.

Whether Diana does or doesn't, I suggest reading this article about sciatica from back surgeon Dr David Hanscom https://backincontrol.com/structural-sciatica-resolved-without-surgery/?v=7885444af42e (Structural Sciatica Resolved Without Surgery - Back in Control) Dr. Hanscom always emphasises that chronic pain is often not directly tied to the structural abnormalities visible on an MRI, such as disc bulges or mild arthritis.

 

[warren23]

I have stubborn left sided symptoms which include lower back pain, leg pain, abdominal tension, si joint pain and digestive issues. But, If it's any comfort I got rid of about 40 years of chronic tension headache (daily for the latter ten years) along with a whole host of other disturbing symptoms. I had every test imaginable and the only thing they found was some evidence of arthritis in my neck which thankfully the consultant said this was not causing pain. One day, I literally sat myself down and somehow had what I called an epiphany moment. I realised that all this was stress related (anger) and I kid you not the headaches and other symptoms melted away. I was in fact suicidal before this epiphany and was having intense psychological intervention not to mention being essentially guarded 24 hours a day for 6 months.

The reason I am replying is not to gloat in being cured - far from it with my current symptoms but rather to tell you that healing is possible no matter how long the symptoms or pain.

There is a massive correlation with stress/anxiety and for me - anger! It seems ridiculous but the resolution of pain for me was seemingly miraculous but it happened. Unfortunately, I'm incredibly prone to the symptom imperative which is why I hang around here.

Hi Barkis - I appreciate your helpful reply and am happy you had an epiphany moment. I also had an "A-ha" moment as it relates to my brutal GI symptoms, and the symptoms completely resolved in a few weeks. I attribute that to the fact that I had no medical tests at all! Whereas, in the case of the sciatica, I have had 2 years of intense symptoms, multiple MRI's/Xrays, several doctor's opinions, an epidural, a PRP injection, stretches, etc. If I am being honest with myself, I am not 100% convinced this is not a physical problem.

 

[Ellen]

If I am being honest with myself, I am not 100% convinced this is not a physical problem.

I think you know this is what is hindering your recovery. Perhaps getting a consult with a physician who specializes in TMS would help you rule out a structural issue and confirm it's TMS. There are some that consult over the internet.

 

[Diana-M]

Diana - do you have an MRI directly correlating with your sciatica? That's my biggest challenge.

No. I can see why that’s a challenge. Have you read The Mindbody Prescription by John Sarno? He elaborately goes into how TMS works; how the nerves work in the legs and butt, and how TMS impacts all of it. He refutes the MRIs, basically. He was a back doctor so he wasn’t making all this up. He was actually just observing his patients when he discovered all of this.

 

[warren23]

Whether Diana does or doesn't, I suggest reading this article about sciatica from back surgeon Dr David Hanscom https://backincontrol.com/structural-sciatica-resolved-without-surgery/?v=7885444af42e (Structural Sciatica Resolved Without Surgery - Back in Control) Dr. Hanscom always emphasises that chronic pain is often not directly tied to the structural abnormalities visible on an MRI, such as disc bulges or mild arthritis.

Thank you BloodMoon - I believe I have read that article, but kind of forgot its contents, so it was good to reread it. I am at the point where I have implemented the mindbody techniques, but have seen no results. Jack got results the first and second times.

 

[BloodMoon]

I am at the point where I have implemented the mindbody techniques, but have seen no results. Jack got results the first and second times.

For a lot of us, it's an uphill slog, I'm afraid. Amongst other numerous symptoms, I used to have sciatica (but I didn't get an MRI) over many years. I still have some other residual TMS symptoms which I believe I will eventually lose, like I did the sciatica. Our lizard brain is liable to keep on keeping on giving us symptoms in the area(s) of our body where we're most likely to believe it is due to structural changes caused by disease, injury, aging etc. You've said you're not 100% convinced that your sciatica is TMS, so in light of this, I second @Ellen's advice to consider getting a consultation with a physician who specialises in TMS, preferably someone like Dr Hanscom who's an expert in backs.

 

[warren23]

I had Dr. Schubiner review my MRI, and he thought it was normal. And a well known PT, Charlie Merrill in Boulder with great knowledge of the body, also thinks my pain is due to TMS. The problem is the pain has gotten worse - I asked Dr Hanscom review my MRI, but won’t do that because he is no longer a practicing doctor. Does any know an orthopedic surgeon or neuro surgeon who might be a good option? On the list of doctors, I noticed a Dr. Roger Gietzen in Michigan.

 

[Baseball65]

I was able to use Sarno's teachings in the past to successfully resolve back pain, brutal GI symptoms, and other symptoms. But not the sciatica, despite my very best efforts.

I think you answered your own question in the first post. Most of the time I get a tickle I am missing an elephant in the room.
I can't see him, but I find his poop and his tracks all over my living room.

Your working with Coaches; Your looking for the right Doctor. There. There's the problem. You say you got better with Sarno's teachings. That was it!!! You didn't need anybody else's input. Sarno points us IN towards our own selves, while going to Doctors and TMS coaches and whatever else is punting and letting someone else have the ball. It's all 'out there' instead of 'In here'.

I have been pain free for 26 or so years with the occasional tickle (relapse) for a few days. I always go back to Pg one Day one in "Healing Back Pain" and "Mindbody prescription"....inevitably a new Elephant has moved in...sometimes I am even feeding him and petting him, but I just can't SEE him.

I had Dr. Schubiner review my MRI, and he thought it was normal. And a well known PT, Charlie Merrill in Boulder with great knowledge of the body, also thinks my pain is due to TMS

Right there that sounds like your not convinced it is psychological. I have had a LOT of my Bro's get better reading Healing Back Pain. But they never go too far down the self inspection road...and inevitably it returns and they tell me "Well, yeah THAT was TMS but THIS is real"
Sarno said when people are resistant to the diagnosis, he thought they were really terrified of the repressed anger. I remember one time when someone mentioned Sarno to me before I was converted and they said the word 'repressed' I INSTANTLY reflected on a very embarrassing affair I had just been involved in and recoiled from that person like Fire...it wasn't even that repressed....I just wanted it to be physical so I could Punt. The Emotional part of the affair was more painful that the crippling sciatica.

 

[Sita]

I know what you mean, @Baseball65. I had a repressed 'thing' and it took me years to get over it. I made a terrible mistake in the past. I thought that I deserved to be in pain because of that mistake. Masochism. I didn't know how to process it until...I decided to give it to God. And it helped. He had to process it for me, I could not. And by the way, God is very understanding...

 

[warren23]

OK - surprisingly, Dr. Hanscom was willing to review my MRI, and he said the following, which I don't think is particularly reassuring:

"Hi Warren, You have some narrowing at L4-5 that is the probable cause of your symptoms. Here is the protocol I used in every patient for 12 weeks prior to surgery. https://backincontrol.com/prehab-optimizing-surgical-outcomes/?v=0b3b97fa6688 (Prehab – Optimizing Surgical Outcomes - Back in Control)

My program has changed a lot, I suggest going through my updated course that can be accessed at www.thedocjourney.com. Here is a link to my surgical section of my website, and my book, "Do You Really Need Spine Surgery?" is helpful. I am happy to help and let me know. Many patients with this finding resolve without surgery and the outcomes are better if you require surgery."

 

[warren23]

Does anyone have thoughts on how I should move forward here? The email from Dr. Hanscom definitely reinforced that I may have a structural problem.

 

[Diana-M]

Warren,
I don’t think people are answering because we can tell you’re determined to have surgery. When people are determined to have surgery there’s really nothing you can do about it. They aren’t ready yet to do the TMS work. That might be the case with you.

Many patients with this finding resolve without surgery

I don’t see where you see that Dr. Hanscom said you need surgery. In my opinion, he was implying the opposite.