Alarming comment on nerve damage (Dr. Schubiner)

[lumebrighter]

Hello everyone!

I just gained some trust in the diagnosis when i came around to this comment under a Dr. Schubiner Video on Youtube:

„This view overlooks many studies. Over 70% of the nerve fibres in the body are designed to do one thing - register pain. If those nerve fibres or nerve routes are damaged, they send aberrant signals.

I challenge this doctor to walk into a brachial plexus injury clinic and tell them their pain is based on stressful life events - and not the nerves that have been avulsed from their spinal chord after an accident.

We also know that biological changes occur both in nerve fibres and at the spinal chord with nerve injuries - these things lead to neuropathic pain.“​

If permanently damaged nerves send aberrant singals because of their damage, how can the nerve pain ever subside through a mind body approach? What would you say to those patients? Are they beyond hope for a pain free life?

I am suffering from chronic pain in my lower back, buttocks, saiatica, legs. MRI showed herniated discs, even leading to stenosis.

My doctor says these nerves in the spinal canal get constantly irriated through movement and flexion. Thats why they are painfully irritated and tighten up in an attempt to protect from further irritation (i am incredibl stiff).

much love

 

[Cactusflower]

So you are willing to believe some random person who suggests that their (they never sited a study, did they - to prove that 70%) information is better than Dr. Schubiner's who is a leading pain specialist and has studies to back up his theories. Read the Boulder Pain Study.

There is doom and gloom all over the internet. You are free to read it and become more fearful and suffer horribly from the anxiety and pain that causes, or you can choose to heal your mind and become free to do all the things you want to do.

TMS isn't just about your physical body. It's also about your brain and mind - the whole person.

Reading and educating yourself more about TMS is a great way to decide if it's the right path to easing your suffering.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

Even this person referred to damage caused by an accident. Were you in an accident of some sort? I'm assuming the answer is No, which means that this dubious comment does not even apply to you.

As far as I'm concerned, this comment is somewhat legitimate, but only insofar as it refers to acute pain - defined by mindbody professionals as the pain following a clear and defined occurrence of an injury. The commenter does not understand that Dr Schubiner was talking about chronic pain.

That being said, there are still too many medical practitioners out there who don't understand that even acute pain is significantly affected by the mental state of the victim. Fortunately this is becoming more accepted and widely known. I have written on the forum many times about my own experience in the ER after crashing my bike and suffering a nondisplaced fracture of the left femoral neck. That's the hip, by the way, and at the time I was 57 years old. My pain dropped from about an 8 to a 3 in an instant when the ER doc came back with my x-rays and said "We can have you pinned up and on crutches in two days." I had not received any pain relievers up to that point, and when they offered me opioids, then, later, and after the surgery, I refused them and never filled the prescription. I didn't need them because my fear level was so low after hearing that good news that I essentially decided that I didn't need to experience pain apart from what was necessary to keep me from hurting myself during recovery. So I didn't. Ibuprofen and Tylenol were good enough to take the edge off so I could do my PT.

This commenter is just being a contrarian asshole. You can choose to ignore them!

 

[Booble]

Here's what I think. The commenter's TMS brain is working in HIGH GEAR to keep him or her away from dealing with the painful emotions. You can almost feel it in the tone.
The commenter's TMS brain is saying, "it's not the emotions, see I told you so, it's definitely not, see what I found on the Internet, ....it's definitely not emotions....don't look here! Stay far, far away. You won't find any answers here..... go chase down some physical rabbit hole and stay away from your emotions!"

I think Sarno describes that the emotions cause the physical changes that create the inflammation or the whatever that cause the nerves to fire and trigger. I'm probably not saying that exactly right but the point being that yes it's the nerve fibers, yes, they may be temporarily "damaged," and yes they are sending out aberrant signals. The difference being the CAUSE of those nerve fibers being "damaged" and/or sending out signals.

 

[anacoluthon33]

Great answers by @Cactusflower and @JanAtheCPA.

There will always be doubters, especially on the internet, especially on forums. YouTube comment sections are notoriously… unreliable places for information, let’s say. Avoiding these “bad neighbourhoods” (Dan Buglio’s term) is part of redirecting your mind from catastrophe towards actual progress.

And @JanAtheCPA is right on to pinpoint the nature of acute injury. No TMS practitioner/expert would conclude, after inspecting a car crash survivor with a broken arm, that the pain is TMS. After a suitable time period to heal, however—most say a few months to half a year—if pain persists in the site of the injury, you’re much more likely to be in TMS land.

Acute injury can lead to TMS, but does not necessarily have to. Conversely, TMS can latch on to and prolong pain from an acute injury, but does not have to, and can occur without any known physical injury.

Bottom line is, if you’ve got “medical clearance” (your doctor shrugging and saying everything’s fine OR there’s nothing more they can do), you’re in the right place, here.

 

[BloodMoon]

If permanently damaged nerves send aberrant singals because of their damage, how can the nerve pain ever subside through a mind body approach?

The brain is the organ that gives us pain in response to sensations in the body. It has been shown that the brain's response to bodily sensations can be changed through meditation (and that those changes can be seen on specialised MRI scans of the brain) -- See this article entitled 'Even Beginners Can Curb Pain With Meditation' about some research that shows this: https://www.npr.org/sections/health.../even-beginners-can-curb-pain-with-meditation

 

[rand]

OP you should email Schubiner directly and see what he thinks about that comment. He's not the fastest responder but he does seem to respond to anyone who emails him. Maybe he has worked with serious trauma patients and has insight on mindbody applications in those cases. Maybe there are studies on mindbody approach for traumatic injuries.

I personally don't think Schubiner, or any serious mindbody doc, would ever walk into a trauma pain clinic and unequivocally tell people their pain is all psychosomatic. I don't think the commenter has a firm understanding of the psychosomatic concept.

 

[Ellen]

TMS pain is real and could be described as "aberrant pain signals". When we realize that there is nothing wrong with our bodies, we are able to override these aberrant signals with the truth.