“HEALTHY STRESS” neuroimmune response query

[Georgie_downunder]

I’m curious whether anyone else has experienced something similar and, if so, whether it improved with neural retraining or other mindbody work.

For around 13 years, I’ve had a very reproducible pattern where positive excitement (music, an exciting idea, inspiration, creative engagement, enjoyable exercise, etc.) can trigger cold chills within minutes, followed by what feels like a neuro-immune flare. Earlier in my illness this often showed up as a CFS-type crash, and more recently it tends to trigger SFN/MCAS-type symptoms.

It’s not “bad” stress that seems to be the issue. Even healthy excitement can flip this switch.

And I don’t have an issue with getting excited - I get excited very easily!

It also means that many mindbody practices involving positive emotion, inspiration, music or ‘elevating’—things I genuinely love and that would otherwise help me—can actually trigger this response.

Interestingly, when I started prednisone for eosinophilic fasciitis, this response was largely switched off, which showed me that it’s not fixed. As I’ve reduced the dose, I’ve noticed the pattern beginning to return.

I’m not looking for medical advice. I’m simply wondering whether anyone else has experienced their body reacting to joy or healthy excitement as though it were a threat, and if so, did that change over time with neural retraining, nervous system work, microbiome work, or anything else?

It would really help to know I’m not the only one

And if any coaches have dealt with this specifically and successfully ?

 

[Cactusflower]

Excitement and stress are processed in the same area of the brain and can illicit the same responses in the nervous system.
I might get very excited for an event - and get there and seem to have social anxiety. I don't have social anxiety - it just "feels" the same.
Another similar response I get is when eating. I eat a meal and suddenly I'm incredibly hot. Sweating hot and it just lasts for a few minutes. I suppose it has to do with childhood stress around forced eating.
Do not dismiss that there might be something psychological going on. It has 0 to do with "microbe work" or "neural re-training". It has to do with the psychological work that Sarno (and many other practitioners) call us to do. Many people with TMS have difficulty with emotions and "Feeling" or even interpreting emotions in the physical body. You might feel "good" emotions and for some reason, your brain interprets that as unsafe and pre-produces the symptoms you've labeled as "neuro-immune". It could also be that you feel typical emotional sensations and have interpreted them as unsafe and your mind is simply pairing the sensations with what you've labeled as negative in your mind and call them "neuro-immune".

Why not take a look at the psychological side of what might be actually causing a stress response when you consciously think there isn't one. Lots can go on in the background of our brain and minds that we aren't aware of. It can be as simple as mentally acknowledging that you might have these connections and letting them be. Not worrying or thinking about them. Knowing they will pass when you act and feel as if they are normal and not a "problem". When we no longer interpret these things as a problem they often pass over time. If they don't pass then it's time to get a little deeper.

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

Do not dismiss that there might be something psychological going on. It has 0 to do with "microbe work" or "neural re-training". It has to do with the psychological work that Sarno (and many other practitioners) call us to do. Many people with TMS have difficulty with emotions and "Feeling" or even interpreting emotions in the physical body. You might feel "good" emotions and for some reason, your brain interprets that as unsafe and pre-produces the symptoms you've labeled as "neuro-immune". It could also be that you feel typical emotional sensations and have interpreted them as unsafe and your mind is simply pairing the sensations with what you've labeled as negative in your mind and call them "neuro-immune".

Spot on, that's the first thing that came to mind also when I read this

 

[Georgie_downunder]

Excitement and stress are processed in the same area of the brain and can illicit the same responses in the nervous system.
I might get very excited for an event - and get there and seem to have social anxiety. I don't have social anxiety - it just "feels" the same.
Another similar response I get is when eating. I eat a meal and suddenly I'm incredibly hot. Sweating hot and it just lasts for a few minutes. I suppose it has to do with childhood stress around forced eating.
Do not dismiss that there might be something psychological going on. It has 0 to do with "microbe work" or "neural re-training". It has to do with the psychological work that Sarno (and many other practitioners) call us to do. Many people with TMS have difficulty with emotions and "Feeling" or even interpreting emotions in the physical body. You might feel "good" emotions and for some reason, your brain interprets that as unsafe and pre-produces the symptoms you've labeled as "neuro-immune". It could also be that you feel typical emotional sensations and have interpreted them as unsafe and your mind is simply pairing the sensations with what you've labeled as negative in your mind and call them "neuro-immune".

Why not take a look at the psychological side of what might be actually causing a stress response when you consciously think there isn't one. Lots can go on in the background of our brain and minds that we aren't aware of. It can be as simple as mentally acknowledging that you might have these connections and letting them be. Not worrying or thinking about them. Knowing they will pass when you act and feel as if they are normal and not a "problem". When we no longer interpret these things as a problem they often pass over time. If they don't pass then it's time to get a little deeper.

Thanks, I really appreciate your thoughtful reply. I actually agree with a lot of what you’ve said and have been immersed in Sarno/Schubiner/PRT-style work and emotional processing for years. I’ve done a huge amount of work around trauma, emotions, fear, catastrophising and the danger response, so I’m definitely open to the psychological explanation.

What makes my case a little unusual is that this pattern has been remarkably reproducible since around 2012. Positive excitement (music, creative inspiration, enjoyable exercise, exciting ideas) can trigger cold chills within minutes, followed by what feels like a significant neuroimmune flare. Earlier in my illness it would often become a CFS-type crash, whereas since developing eosinophilic fasciitis (EF) it tends to show up as small fibre neuropathy and other immune symptoms.

The challenge is that I’m mostly bedbound (also in wheelchair due to EF) and the “exercise” I’m talking about is literally very gentle chair movements with music for around 20 minutes. Even that level of positive activation can trigger this response. Once it’s switched on, it doesn’t settle in a day or two—it can flare for months, and historically it has sometimes persisted for much longer. So I’m in a difficult position because I know I need to move my body and I genuinely love music, but I also can’t keep repeatedly activating a mechanism that has such long-lasting consequences.

Interestingly, when I started prednisone this response was largely switched off, and it’s become noticeable again as I’ve tapered, which has made me wonder whether there’s an immune component interacting with the conditioned danger response rather than it being purely psychological.

My hope isn’t to avoid excitement—quite the opposite. I want to be able to enjoy music, creativity and movement again without my body interpreting them as a threat. I’m really curious whether you’ve come across anyone with a pattern quite this immediate and prolonged, and if so, how they successfully approached it.

 

[Georgie_downunder]

Spot on, that's the first thing that came to mind also when I read this

Thank you for commenting. Please see my reply to Cactusflower above as I’d be interested in your thoughts also.

 

[Cactusflower]

whereas since developing eosinophilic fasciitis (EF) it tends to show up as small fibre neuropathy and other immune symptoms.

I’m sorry for your pain.
However I think my hypothesis makes sense no matter if the symptom is purely psychological or if it is a mixture of structural/psychological… I believe all medical symptoms also have psychological elements especially if presenting a change in lifestyle/identity. No matter the “reason” or “cause” you face things with very strong influences on or with the nervous system. Some level of physical “stress” and it’s just how you react to these things. Your mind and body might really benefit from some somatic approach if you haven’t tried that yet. Experiment to see if you can have influence on your reactions.

 

[Adam Coloretti (coach)]

Interestingly, when I started prednisone this response was largely switched off, and it’s become noticeable again as I’ve tapered, which has made me wonder whether there’s an immune component interacting with the conditioned danger response rather than it being purely psychological.

The TMS Diagnostic Guide speaks of eosinophilic esophagitis - which seems to be a similar immune condition impacting a different part of the body - for it the experts say "Not caused by TMS, but if symptoms fail to respond to treatment, them assessment for a contribution to TMS should be done". This is a pretty consistent response in the book for immune/auto-immune conditions.

As Cactusflower has alluded to, stress and emotions are proven to have impact on the immune system. As such, this work could only help you. I'd be leaning on the doctors/specialists if I were in your position to really be straight with me as to whether my symptom patterns are normal and whether I'm responding to treatment in a predictable fashion. If not, that could infer more of a TMS element (the fact that the symptoms have changed too might be an indicator), but again it's all interrelated.

I'll just say in regards to small fibre neuropathy (just in case this helps), the guide states that in the absence of clear nerve damage (through testing such as EMG), and if other reasons for neuropathy have been ruled out (such as diabetes, vitamin deficiencies etc.), then TMS should be considered. "Nerve biopsies might show minor abnormalities, but these can also be seen in individuals without symptoms".

To give you encouragement regarding immune conditions more broadly, there are quite a number of rheumatoid arthritis success stories (Dan Buglio has a few if you look up his YouTube channel - "Pain Free you") as well as numerous ankylosing spondylitis success stories

 

[Booble]

I’m curious whether anyone else has experienced something similar and, if so, whether it improved with neural retraining or other mindbody work.

For around 13 years, I’ve had a very reproducible pattern where positive excitement (music, an exciting idea, inspiration, creative engagement, enjoyable exercise, etc.) can trigger cold chills within minutes, followed by what feels like a neuro-immune flare. Earlier in my illness this often showed up as a CFS-type crash, and more recently it tends to trigger SFN/MCAS-type symptoms.

It’s not “bad” stress that seems to be the issue. Even healthy excitement can flip this switch.

And I don’t have an issue with getting excited - I get excited very easily!

It also means that many mindbody practices involving positive emotion, inspiration, music or ‘elevating’—things I genuinely love and that would otherwise help me—can actually trigger this response.

Interestingly, when I started prednisone for eosinophilic fasciitis, this response was largely switched off, which showed me that it’s not fixed. As I’ve reduced the dose, I’ve noticed the pattern beginning to return.

I’m not looking for medical advice. I’m simply wondering whether anyone else has experienced their body reacting to joy or healthy excitement as though it were a threat, and if so, did that change over time with neural retraining, nervous system work, microbiome work, or anything else?

It would really help to know I’m not the only one

And if any coaches have dealt with this specifically and successfully ?

Some of us have excitable bodies. I was having a GREAT conference with my employees/colleagues and was so excited. When we finished up what happened? I was on the way to the bathroom feeling on top of the world and I immediately got an eye migraine aura. Bastard!