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Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this updated link: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/painrecovery/
So do I challenge the pain? You asked her to do an activity that triggers the pain in purpose to deal with it.
But on other posts you say don't fight it, don't focus on it all.
It would be great to have more clarification on that, I will give my personal example:
I have pain bending forwards, I have conditioned myself that it is the cause of my left leg, because bending only with my right leg straight is no pain.
Therefor, whenever I want to do some stretches and bend forward, I feel the pain and I can't go anymore, I can't even stretch because the pain is limiting me way ahead the stretch.
So the question is do I do this bending knowing that it will trigger pain because of my belief, and I deal with the pain while not having any stretch(which is the purpose of the bending) or I don't do it at all until that time that I feel I can do it without pain?
And similarly, sometimes the pain starts in some position, Im aware that it is purely TMS, but I have the option instead of feeling this sensation just to switch to a different position with no pain, how do I act in those situations? I've tried to stay in the same pose feeling it and mentally doing the same as in the audio, it can go for half an hour and then I just switch, did I loose?
But on other posts you say don't fight it, don't focus on it all.
It would be great to have more clarification on that, I will give my personal example:
I have pain bending forwards, I have conditioned myself that it is the cause of my left leg, because bending only with my right leg straight is no pain.
Therefor, whenever I want to do some stretches and bend forward, I feel the pain and I can't go anymore, I can't even stretch because the pain is limiting me way ahead the stretch.
So the question is do I do this bending knowing that it will trigger pain because of my belief, and I deal with the pain while not having any stretch(which is the purpose of the bending) or I don't do it at all until that time that I feel I can do it without pain?
And similarly, sometimes the pain starts in some position, Im aware that it is purely TMS, but I have the option instead of feeling this sensation just to switch to a different position with no pain, how do I act in those situations? I've tried to stay in the same pose feeling it and mentally doing the same as in the audio, it can go for half an hour and then I just switch, did I loose?
Rizzo
New Member
Hearing this makes so much sense. Although I live mostly pain free now, I have noticed that my back pain has been acting up lately. I tried to follow the advice of others who suggest yelling at your brain to reverse the pain. I was so frustrated with my most recent pain that I attacked my brain as harsh as I could. I was yelling and swearing at my brain and pounding my steering wheel! The more anger and resentment I felt toward my brain for refusing to stop the pain, the more attention and anger I attacked it with until I could barely walk anymore. I realized that the anger approach was only worsening the feelings my brain tries so hard to shield me from. I stepped back from my approach an tried to speak and reason with my brain in a calm fashion, as if it were a misguided child. I found this approach to have a far greater effect. You are so correct in saying the anger and resentment of the pain makes it worse. This was so helpful, thank you.
Just to play Buddha's advocate (course I'm new here) but could this not be in this case a form of self or directed by Alan a form of hypnosis....and we have all seen or heard of remarkable things done with hypnosis....the forums mindset is naturally TMS so this "cure" is naturally because of TMS....really? This is naturally what everyone here has a stake in believing (course that's not to rule out the validity of TMS)
Tennis Tom
Beloved Grand Eagle
Yup, really! We are our most powerful healing agents--ask any doctor. They may have some hi-tech gizmos, nuts and bolts to help the healing process along, but we do it best ourselves. BELIEF in the the Good Doctor's simple theory is a pre-requisite, otherwise it ain't gonna' happen and you can go back to swallowing your tumeric, st. john's wort, blue-green algae, tommy copper socks and panties, etc., etc., etc.
The reason TMS doesn't get traction in the media, is because it's hard to monetize and it's the same old message--Drs. Weil, Oz and Oprah would get old saying the same old message day after day, not to mention the un-employment lines for surgeons and empty aisles at the Walgreens that are sprouting up on every corner.
karinabrown
Well known member
I want to get on a plane and ask dr Alan to do this session with me but then on walking and footpain... great post Thanks
Tennis Tom
Beloved Grand Eagle
You can do it by phone or skype, in the comfort of your own home, and the stats say that it's as effective as in person. I think it could be even more so, because you can possibly feel more at ease without someone in the same room with you who may inhibit and be fearful of. I remember doing a couple of phone sessions with Don Dubin, driving home after seeing Dr. Schechter in L.A. They were on cell phone parked along the beautiful Pacific Coast Hwy, while while watching the surf--no pressure.
karinabrown
Well known member
Hi Tom,
Interesting : been thinkin about your reply half this day..
Ofcourse know about Skype but for some reason i am scared to do so.
The thinkin ' half this day is about the 'why' and came up with more than one reason.
There's the language, and there is my fear of another therapist and getting disapointed like the others before ..
(I know this should be different ..)
Some part of my is scared to even start talking about all psysical stuff.. what is cost me and what it did to me
Cannot exactly explain
But its yet another thing to think over ..
also my big problem : too much thinking!
See there you have it : not making any sense today ..
Karina
Interesting : been thinkin about your reply half this day..
Ofcourse know about Skype but for some reason i am scared to do so.
The thinkin ' half this day is about the 'why' and came up with more than one reason.
There's the language, and there is my fear of another therapist and getting disapointed like the others before ..
(I know this should be different ..)
Some part of my is scared to even start talking about all psysical stuff.. what is cost me and what it did to me
Cannot exactly explain
But its yet another thing to think over ..
also my big problem : too much thinking!
See there you have it : not making any sense today ..
Karina
Tennis Tom
Beloved Grand Eagle
That is the universal problem/cause of TMS('ers). TMS is created by the mind. We think our way into it, through accepting the collective false memes of what can cause false pain. Psychobabble, rumination, it can be difficult to use the mind to fix a problem caused by the mind--you have to get out of your mind to be the the "observer" as Monte Huefle put it in his TMS book's chapter about meditation.
I understood you just fine and you are making a lot of sense in the TMS "sense". There are many TMS savvy practitioners here to choose from who will be able to skype with you. Take a look at the list and pick one--Just Do It!
Cheers,
tt
karinabrown
Well known member
Hi Tom,
Good to know there is someone out there who ''gets' my psycho babble
Thank you
Funny you mentioned 'thinking your way out of pain and other stuff' : maybe that is for a big part what i am doing
Maybe thinkin : if i can create this in my mind , that's also the way out '
Not by sitting and ruminating (although there us a lot of that too) been there and done that : did not help at all:
But by sort of 'challenging' my fear by doing stuff even if it scares me. Doing that more Lately : sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't
Maybe the Skype session can be a new challenge. Will read that list
Thank you
Karina
Good to know there is someone out there who ''gets' my psycho babble
Thank you
Funny you mentioned 'thinking your way out of pain and other stuff' : maybe that is for a big part what i am doing
Maybe thinkin : if i can create this in my mind , that's also the way out '
Not by sitting and ruminating (although there us a lot of that too) been there and done that : did not help at all:
But by sort of 'challenging' my fear by doing stuff even if it scares me. Doing that more Lately : sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't
Maybe the Skype session can be a new challenge. Will read that list
Thank you
Karina
Tennis Tom
Beloved Grand Eagle
Let me clarify my elaborate use of the run-on sentence. I don't want to confuse you (or me), this TMS stuff can get quite airy-fairy and not to mention seemingly woo-woo. (To clarify, I have no idea of what I just wrote, so don't be concerned if it doesn't make any sense--this is the 50 anniversary of the Summer of Love, and I think I was there, most of the time and some of the time in the woods or on the river.) So, continue ignoring all this. The point I'm trying to make, is one made by a TMS author, maybe it was SteveO, maybe Monte, maybe Fred, you can't think your way out of a problem (TMS) created by the mind (in this case the mind is the bad guy, hate to say it, since they're so precious to us, at least college recruiters say so), by using the mind. ----- Let me try that again, since my gray matter is dripping all over the place : You can't use your mind to fix a problem caused by the mind. That sounds good to me right now even if I got it wrong. But the cure for TMS is knowledge about TMS as Dr. Sarno calls it KNOWLEDGE PENICILLIN. This is the information contained in his books--any one of them will do. It's a simple theory but sometimes hard to execute depending upon one's life and circumstances getting in the way and further convoluting the gray matter the mind resides in. So once again, maybe it's best to follow the advice in the Beatles song inspired by their Indian guru stage to "just relax and let your mind float down stream"--don't over-think this TMS stuff.
Which leads into your next thought-- the body stuff, which contains numerous mini-minds (sometimes known as pro-preoceptors) of itselves, or maybe elves is appropros, little elves making mischiefs called TMS symptoms to distract us from the real issues (see the Rahe-Holmes List for the real issues). So---that's what the Good Doctor recommends, to "challenge" your fears--that your body is fragile--it's not--. Get out of your mind and into your body and Just do it! Success builds on success. And before long, the pain diminishes and you are positively distracted by positive distractions--creating good molecules of emotion by the body that are better then morphine.
Don't worry if some or much of this doesn't make any sense, think how I must feel I had to write it--and when I reread it in the morning and try to clean it up, I'll probably have to take a big Tylenol with my Baileys coffee.
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karinabrown
Well known member
Hi Tom,
You score high on my humor scale which is pretty important i think
The Beatles you say ? Well was Born mid sixties bit to late perhaps
My problem i fear (another one ..) is that i do 'get it ' and have been for some time. Just not really very succesfull so far in bringing in to practice. I am still making progress although i also have
Setbacks. There where some days i really started thinkin that this footpain was leaving me, but always there was another day that i felt it is not.
The just do it ' frase is great and for some part been able to just do it ' but i want do much more .. there you have it
Still put limitations on what i am able to move , and do not dare to get past that. Kind of being in prison.
There is a lot of truth in the just do it ' phrase, i just saw a tv doctor who Sells stuff , screaming in my screen 'motion is lotion ' i did not buy stuff but use the phrase a lot
And well : he is totally right too
I get it ' but its not enough so far
But maybe if i keep at it in time it will come. And i will write a succes story which is different that way : not the ' i read this book and was fine' story But slowly i recovered and slowly i just did it '
Goodluck on the foggy head
Still could follow your reply ..
lol
Karina
You score high on my humor scale which is pretty important i think
The Beatles you say ? Well was Born mid sixties bit to late perhaps
My problem i fear (another one ..) is that i do 'get it ' and have been for some time. Just not really very succesfull so far in bringing in to practice. I am still making progress although i also have
Setbacks. There where some days i really started thinkin that this footpain was leaving me, but always there was another day that i felt it is not.
The just do it ' frase is great and for some part been able to just do it ' but i want do much more .. there you have it
Still put limitations on what i am able to move , and do not dare to get past that. Kind of being in prison.
There is a lot of truth in the just do it ' phrase, i just saw a tv doctor who Sells stuff , screaming in my screen 'motion is lotion ' i did not buy stuff but use the phrase a lot
And well : he is totally right too
I get it ' but its not enough so far
But maybe if i keep at it in time it will come. And i will write a succes story which is different that way : not the ' i read this book and was fine' story But slowly i recovered and slowly i just did it '
Goodluck on the foggy head
Still could follow your reply ..
lol
Karina
Tennis Tom
Beloved Grand Eagle
Karina, thanks for the reply! Quick question, what is your foot-pain preventing you from doing--standing, walking, running?
"MOTION IS THE LOTION", that's a good one! Actually there's a lot of truth in that. Our joints have little organs in them called bursa or bursi, that's where the "condition" bursitis stems from. I've heard that they are the only organ in the body that you can cut out and will grow back--but don't quote me,but if true it shows how resilient the joints can be. The bursa produce synovial fluid that lubricates or "lotions" the joint. I like to think of it as the WD-40 for the joints. But it doesn't get produced and flowing until the joint is stimulated by movement to produce it. That's where all those snap, crackle popping sounds emenate from called "crepitus". During the warm-up, the crepitus noises go away as the joint-juice is produced lubing it up. But, if you've been brain-washed by the medical/industrial complex to believe that the body structures are weak and that with each step you take you are further wearing them down bone -on-bone, your natural reaction will be to not move that way. I've found if I "move that way" for a few moments maybe twenty maybe less depending on the activity, I break through that barrier and the "motion" has created my joints "lotion".
"MOTION IS THE LOTION", that's a good one! Actually there's a lot of truth in that. Our joints have little organs in them called bursa or bursi, that's where the "condition" bursitis stems from. I've heard that they are the only organ in the body that you can cut out and will grow back--but don't quote me,but if true it shows how resilient the joints can be. The bursa produce synovial fluid that lubricates or "lotions" the joint. I like to think of it as the WD-40 for the joints. But it doesn't get produced and flowing until the joint is stimulated by movement to produce it. That's where all those snap, crackle popping sounds emenate from called "crepitus". During the warm-up, the crepitus noises go away as the joint-juice is produced lubing it up. But, if you've been brain-washed by the medical/industrial complex to believe that the body structures are weak and that with each step you take you are further wearing them down bone -on-bone, your natural reaction will be to not move that way. I've found if I "move that way" for a few moments maybe twenty maybe less depending on the activity, I break through that barrier and the "motion" has created my joints "lotion".
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karinabrown
Well known member
Hi Tom ,
You ask what i cannot do because of Footpain ? That list is long !:
At this point i can manage to walk a maximum of say 8000 steps (Yes i wear a fitbit)
a day, with some discomfort or reasinable painfree now. (This was zero 4 years ago) But : i can only do this by
breaking it all up to smaller pieces. Twice a week (for half a year now o) i go for 20 minutes walk : which was drama in the beginning, now i cann manage that. Have good days and bad days. So you see its very limiting. Cannot drive a car etc.
Note: 4 years ago was in crazy pain , could not walk at all. So have gained back a part. I just read the average american takes 6000 steps a day , so Woohhoo i can do that. This was me being synical
I have organized my whole life around this limitations and have managed to do that and find some joy again but ofcourse it is somuch different than my old life. You ask me about 'running' : but no never did. Just would be thrilled just to go wherever i want for how long i want. Not depending on others to take me etc
You get the picture i hope
I noticed when i wrote this down i felt ashamed
Karina
You ask what i cannot do because of Footpain ? That list is long !:
At this point i can manage to walk a maximum of say 8000 steps (Yes i wear a fitbit)
a day, with some discomfort or reasinable painfree now. (This was zero 4 years ago) But : i can only do this by
breaking it all up to smaller pieces. Twice a week (for half a year now o) i go for 20 minutes walk : which was drama in the beginning, now i cann manage that. Have good days and bad days. So you see its very limiting. Cannot drive a car etc.
Note: 4 years ago was in crazy pain , could not walk at all. So have gained back a part. I just read the average american takes 6000 steps a day , so Woohhoo i can do that. This was me being synical
I have organized my whole life around this limitations and have managed to do that and find some joy again but ofcourse it is somuch different than my old life. You ask me about 'running' : but no never did. Just would be thrilled just to go wherever i want for how long i want. Not depending on others to take me etc
You get the picture i hope
I noticed when i wrote this down i felt ashamed
Karina
Tennis Tom
Beloved Grand Eagle
Karina, here's some words of wisdom from Monte that might help to clarify things :
From Monte Hueftle's book "GET RID OF THE PAIN IN YOUR BUTT NOW!" :
page 86 : ...anything in your past that is stored and needs to be expressed will naturally be experienced when your consciousness is in the present moment. There is no reason to waste more energy looking for it. Realize, once you start going back to dig up emotional stuff--how far back do you go? There will always be more stuff to uncover, to analyze, and to worry about. Drop it. Let it Die. Become present--watching, listening, feeling , and observing your inner self, the less you will be trapped in the past or the future. Every time you realize you are in the past, you have just become present. Each time you observe your dialogue as the detached observer, you are consciously aware.
From Monte Hueftle's book "GET RID OF THE PAIN IN YOUR BUTT NOW!" :
page 86 : ...anything in your past that is stored and needs to be expressed will naturally be experienced when your consciousness is in the present moment. There is no reason to waste more energy looking for it. Realize, once you start going back to dig up emotional stuff--how far back do you go? There will always be more stuff to uncover, to analyze, and to worry about. Drop it. Let it Die. Become present--watching, listening, feeling , and observing your inner self, the less you will be trapped in the past or the future. Every time you realize you are in the past, you have just become present. Each time you observe your dialogue as the detached observer, you are consciously aware.
karinabrown
Well known member
Hi Tom ,
Well now its harder for me to understand what you mean this last post ?
Stop diggin in the past ?
Stop longing for my old life ? Not sure..
'Just be present' : but if i am in the ''n0w' I am a lot of the time frustrated by the limitation cause of pain
Karina
Well now its harder for me to understand what you mean this last post ?
Stop diggin in the past ?
Stop longing for my old life ? Not sure..
'Just be present' : but if i am in the ''n0w' I am a lot of the time frustrated by the limitation cause of pain
Karina
honey badger
Peer Supporter
I am new to this forum and I'm so excited to try Alan's TMS Recovery Program. I have been a fan of Dr. Sarno for a long time, and only needed to read his book Healing Back Pain for my sciatic pain to go away a few years back. But I keep getting recurring pain and physical ailments that I KNOW are TMS equivalents, but I can't seem to shake them for long. Last night it all just got to me and then I found this forum. Wow. I'm so encouraged.
I listened to the audio above and started doing my own hand movements that have been causing me some pain, and my pain also responded to the audio. So I did it again with my back (I have new pain in the middle of my shoulder blades, like a big ball of pain that I've been pretending to ignore, but was mostly very annoyed by it) and it went down significantly while I listened to the audio. I'm very encouraged by all this.
I'm going to take a close look at Alan's TMS Recovery Program that you suggested above (Forest). Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I listened to the audio above and started doing my own hand movements that have been causing me some pain, and my pain also responded to the audio. So I did it again with my back (I have new pain in the middle of my shoulder blades, like a big ball of pain that I've been pretending to ignore, but was mostly very annoyed by it) and it went down significantly while I listened to the audio. I'm very encouraged by all this.
I'm going to take a close look at Alan's TMS Recovery Program that you suggested above (Forest). Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Celayne
Well known member
This was so helpful!
