Lesson (almost) learned

My sister is a narcissist. I knew that she made me crazy and gave me symptoms— but I didn’t actually know she was a narcissist until I started working here on the forum. Evidently narcissists can completely destroy your health and your mind. They are very dangerous to your well-being.

I’ve been avoiding her for months, and yesterday I decided to allow a very brief phone conversation with her, which focused mainly on a book she was reading. It seemed harmless. But I know she was setting things up to have more access to me in the future. I immediately regretted it and ruminated on it the rest of the day.

Last night, all night, I had 10 out of 10 pain, burning, spasms, cramping —things I haven’t had in half a year. This morning I was mad at myself for causing this unnecessary pain.

I just hate estrangement in families. It seems so wrong, sad and unnecessary. I don’t know how to say to her, “I’m never going to talk to you again.” I also don’t want to be on the run from her the rest of my life. A firm line in the sand would give me some peace. I know my goodism is a factor. I don’t want HER to suffer. I also know my fear of abandonment plays in. When we were growing up, ironically she used to be my comfort. We were in the trenches together.

Man, is my family the gift that keeps on giving!

Serendipitously — yesterday afternoon, I ran into an amazing book, Crushing Doubt, by pain psychologist Dan Ratner. I sucked up chapter 9 about power. Every single word spoke to my heart. I lack power, and I need it. She represents loss of power to me. She was the cat, and I was the mouse that she played with. (I didn’t even know!)

What should I do? Any advice? Estrangement time?

 

I'm in the same boat. I learned this spring that my mom is a big factor in my pain. My journaling was pointing to that, but I couldn't believe it. I live in a completely different state and we will be visiting her in June to see my extended family. And when I bought the plane tickets and told her our travel plans she got very mad because we wasn't staying long enough. (I'll be there a week.) She got mad that we are staying in a hotel-not her house. (but she doesn't like having people stay in her house). She didn't like that we were renting a car-she wanted to pick us up at the airport. I heard about this for a day in text messages until I finally had to stop responding. Once I ignored her, she told me that "she wasn't mad at me" for setting up this trip. Mad, what? I'm spending a lot of money to go see family and I was treated like that from her. Just this past week she tried to text me an itinerary of the trip. (That I'm paying for!) She wanted me to nail down dates of what we were doing each day. That is not how I roll and I told her that. She wouldn't let it go. I finally told her two days that I could confirm what we were doing so she would get off my back. And we had also decided to go to a baseball game while we were there so we invited her to come. She got mad that I planned this and told me how my sisters had taken the WHOLE week off of work to see me and we are running to a game instead. She finally ended the messaging by saying it is my vacation and I can do what I want-in a very condescending way.

In a nutshell, she is mad that she can't control this trip at all. She has always been very controlling, her way was the only way, and very critical of me. I'm not sure if my sisters got the same treatment as they were much younger than me. But I always would wonder if she liked me cause I was always doing something wrong according to her rules and constantly getting grounded.

Of course I ended up with some new pain after a couple of days of this last text message thread. Very frustrating cause this new TMS pain actually had me thinking something was wrong with me and I ran to the dr!!! I realized it later on this was TMS and got it under control. I had taken a break in journaling the last couple of weeks because May was very busy with my kids activities and I didn't take the time to do it. Last night I started my journaling again and wrote an unsent letter to my mom. I was ANGRY! And then I ended up with my original TMS pain afterwards which is still here today-just lingering. I know it will go away. I know my nervous system is stirred up again. (I actually did pretty good when I wasn't journaling. My pain level was down pretty low! But I know that is not sustainable for long term healing.)

So I had this trip planned way before I knew that my mom was part of my TMS symptoms. I expect to get symptoms when I am out there if there is conflict. If I had known all of this before I bought the plane tickets I probably would have done a different vacation. Nothing about this has been easy.

So I don't have any advice for you. You do need to set those boundaries up just like I do. I'm not sure how either. I think we both need to take other people's feelings out of the equation and ask what we want with our family going into the future.

 

I totally agree. It might be hard at first, but it’s time to put ourselves first and heal.

That’s too bad you set up the trip already. But you can use it to your advantage. Your eyes will be open this time. It will be huge for you in gaining clarity and making resolutions. You’re already good with boundaries.

 

This is from Chapter 9 of Crushing Doubt, by pain psychologist Dan Ratner. The bold is added by him. (I’m loving this book!)

“Take the rage and pain of your trauma and channel the aggression to be fiercely in your own corner. Even if you hold others accountable only internally, don’t let offenders off the hook. You need aggression to be powerful. Let yourself be fully angry at the people who have really let you down.

Dip into black-and-white thinking. Overly nuanced, shades of gray thinking can also confuse you about your true needs, at times. When someone has harmed you, you may need protection through clarity about your suffering. This doesn’t necessarily require an interaction with the person who hurt you, or even making them aware. It’s about deciding who gets to have the keys to your kingdom.

See closeness with you as a privilege. If someone is abusing you, revoke their privileges of access to you, even if only internally. Don’t let them back in until it’s safe. You get to decide to hold them accountable. You’ll have moments where you don’t feel in power and moments where you let yourself get mistreated, but course correct as soon as you can to get back in power.

When you change who you are with you, you change who you are with everyone. Some people won’t expect these changes and it will alter how they relate to you.

Show the necessary people a new set of rules and give it time for the new reality to sink in. One of the hardest and scariest things about power column work is that it can create many tumultuous feelings, experiences, and even loss. Looking unflinchingly at what you need and what you’re not getting can lead to some hard realizations.

Let yourself find out who everyone is. You may find some long-cherished relationships are no longer worth it (or maybe never were). Don’t be afraid to clean house. Instead of wondering if you’re good enough for other people, ask yourself if they’re good enough for you. If they don’t make you feel good, waste your time and energy, make things too complicated, or make you consistently unhappy, get rid of them.

It doesn’t matter how long you’ve known them or what role they play. You don’t owe them an explanation either. They don’t even have to know they’re gone! Just don’t prioritize them anymore. You can be friendly or not, and you can choose to discuss it or not. In some cases, you may continue interacting for functionality or practicality but you can limit it as much as you need to.

Your emotional safety and sanity are more important than any relationship other than with your children (if you have them). Toxic relationships are toxic for your mind, body, and soul.”

 

I don't have any advice, just some observations.

I think those of us who have experienced a great deal of emotional pain or physical pain are constantly engaged in this cost/benefit analysis. What will this interaction or activity cost me and how much will I benefit from it? Because fatigue was also a part of my TMS, I did this with energy expenditure as well.

But I think the problem is that we lack faith in our resilience. Will I be able to handle this situation and bounce back from it? How much will it set me back? If I avoid the situation all together, how much will that cost me?

I think all of these calculations are exhausting and dispiriting. It's a sign we've lost faith in ourselves and our ability to move through life and succeed and grow. I think the antidote is to develop a different story for ourselves, where we focus on all we've survived and accomplished. And then tell ourselves, I'll just take this one step at a time and have faith that I will find my way to the other side having learned something in the process.

 

Beautiful wisdom, @Ellen! I really appreciate this added perspective. I honestly feel like a child when I think of my sister. I don’t feel rational. And I don’t trust myself at all. But I can see how I could burn up a lot of energy analyzing this.

 

Let yourself find out who everyone is. You may find some long-cherished relationships are no longer worth it (or maybe never were). Don’t be afraid to clean house. Instead of wondering if you’re good enough for other people, ask yourself if they’re good enough for you. If they don’t make you feel good, waste your time and energy, make things too complicated, or make you consistently unhappy, get rid of them.

@Diana-M Oh my gosh! This!! Scary to even think about but a good start to making my boundaries.

 

I know, right?!!??!

 

“

Hmmm! I never thought of this.

 

I feel for you and truly understand how difficult it all is, but I'm going to be blunt... Only you can decide when the time is ripe and at what point she has toyed around with you and made you suffer enough for you to go 'no contact' and when you are prepared to suffer the fall-out and awkwardness that it might cause with the rest of your family dynamics. Would that point only be if you're bed ridden with mind/body symptoms?... Because keeping her for the most part at arm's length is evidently not working for you; a seemingly relatively small bit of contact with her and wham, your lizard brain is giving you a huge danger alert with a flare in 'alarm' symptoms, and in this case your lizard brain is right in recognising that your sister is dangerous - because narcissists are dangerous to our well-being.

Because, as you know, I am a 'baby steps' kind of a gal, I really like what @Ellen said here...

... With this in mind, would working on mentally cutting ties with your sister first, enable you to eventually stop communicating with her, I wonder? I know you've journaled about your relationship with her but maybe writing down all the nasty, underhand etc., stuff she has got up to over the years and strongly resisting the temptation to balance that out with all the 'nice' stuff that she tempted you with to keep you and/or get you back into her clutches, might help you to do what you need to do for the sake of your health and well-being.

The difficulty is that I think you're fighting conditioning here... I recall you said to me once that you were told by your parents that your job was to look after your sisters and to expect nothing from them in return. That obligation becomes 'null and void' when you do get something in return and that something is not respectful...

Remember -- associating with you, lovely Diana, is a privilege!

 

I’m not sure I’ve ever had this faith. In fact, the little that I have has been developed over the last year. I think my “resilience” is a little voice telling me my sister is unbearable.

 

You know, this conversation is helping me! I can see I have been actually making progress. Over the last year or so, I’ve been pulling away from her. All that’s left now, really, is just a very childish hope that maybe someday— all of this won’t be true, and I could have her for a “real” sister. I’ve pretty much lost all my family because of dysfunction. I think I need to grieve that loss. It’s much better than hoping for something that will never happen. I have some lingering guilt that I owe her something. As far as family dynamics go, this past year I’ve been making a lot of changes. Nobody in my family expects me to stay close to anybody else. It’s like all the rules are gone. I’m the one who broke them.

SO… I think I’m answering my own question— with so much appreciation for all of your help!

I could take baby steps with her— but they all need to be to keep her even farther than arm’s distance. I opened the box and peeked in yesterday. Nope, still a monster in there, my symptoms confirmed. I think now I need to not peek in that box again— or at least least do my best. My next baby step is to not talk to her for a really long time. Or talk in very superficial ways infrequently. That’s what my heart wants.

I need to believe myself when I need something. I need to give myself what I really want. I need to stop automatically fawning and doing things I don’t really want at all. I know what I want. I just have to give it to myself.

❤️

 

Amazingly said Ellen

 

It’s so tough Diana. My situation with my immediate family has improved, at least compared to my childhood through early 20s. But still, the pain, and regret and yearning for things to be different is still there, and in all likelihood will always be there. Whenever there is some time that passes in between seeing my my family I pray like a desperate child holding his hand out to the universe that things have changed, that the dysfunction is gone and that there will be a loving healthy family to help me erase the traumas of the past. But it just is not so, and will be never be so.

I don’t have great advice, as an adult living with parents who have caused immense trauma to me, I’d be a hypocrite if I said without any nuance to cut her off. I have moments where I just want to flee, in my ruinous physical state, shitty financial situation and just say screw it, I’m never seeing these people again. But other times I have come to accept them for who they are, understand what they are and that they aren’t changing, and even find fleeting moments of joy in their company.

I suppose it’s about weighing the risk vs reward, and it sounds like the risk of symptoms is far greater than what you gain by interacting with your sister. So I think there is nothing wrong with distancing yourself from her. That said, I think there is a tremendous amount to be gained in regards to overcoming our symptoms by confronting these sorts of relationship dynamics that have historically cause us stress. We, with time can teach our nervous system that we can be stressed and agitated, but we don’t need symptoms. I think ultimately it is no different than confronting a physical activity that cripples us with fear of the subsequent symptoms.

 

@Rabscuttle

Oh this makes me sad for you! Oh how I know this feeling.

I like this idea. And it may well be true. I’m not sure how I’d slowly teach myself she’s safer than she is —but I won’t write off the idea. It’s actually nice to think of.

 

I agree.
I don't have advice really either, as this aspect - family is one of those core, deep wounds for me.

I've been pretty much avoiding for years, but I will say at the end of the day, that little voice deep inside is still there and until that is healed, I'm not sure it matters if I'm in contact or not, I still feel it.

I have to remember that they can't "make" me feel any specific way, when I do connect with them. Reclaiming my power is about choosing how I feel.

With families, the "script" seems written in stone, everyone plays their role (and I often help perpetuate that by insisting they are a certain way).

I have had experiences though when I have changed my perception of their role and seen their "character" with different lens or times when I've changed my role (not playing the weak sensitive one who begs for love), though it is challenging and when you shift your role others can react with shock or double down. But like a play where one of the actors changes their lines or the way they act out the scene -- all of the other actors have to adjust and it actually makes the whole production different. Of course, the drama has been going on for years in situations like in family dynamics -- it's one of the greatest challenges, but it all starts with a shift, right?

In any case, @Diana-M, I'm so sorry you are experiencing this.
I know you have the resilience to move through all of it in a way that works for you -- integrating everything you have learned -- and this will be another positive building block on this journey! ❤️

 

Thank you, @NewBeginning ! I appreciate you weighing in, and I hope the same for you! ❤️

 

You are not responsible for her emotional well-being. Nor -- even more importantly -- can you actually make her happy. So why sacrifice your well-being, when it won't do her any real, significant good?
I find that with family members like this, it has been better not for me to cut ties entirely but always (except in a few circumstances) to interact on my own terms. In other words, I do not take their wanting to talk to me or thinking they should get things from me into account. When I feel able to talk with them, I seize that opportunity to call/interact. But I do not pick up the phone otherwise.