Amygdala connection..?

Bawbee

Peer Supporter
Hi....I just wrote my story but lost it to who knows where......havent energy or arm power to retype at present.

Ive been following a prog by Ashok Gupta...the idea being that the amygdala is always on high alert when cfs and fibromyalgia are present ......and all the symptoms come from this overstimulated amygdala.

Would the slight oxygen deprivation be nother symtom from a hyperarpused nervous system?

I just wrote most of my story....but lost it. Not enought energy to re type right now. Love the forum...but need more time to get used to how to use it.

Thank you all for your helpful threads
 
I think you might want to check out the results of the recent study at Stanford University (see link below) that traces the connection between activity in various areas of the brain in a volunteer group of back pain patients. It was a public survey that requested volunteers from throughout the Bay Area to undergo CAT brain scans. Don't know what they found out yet about the Amygdal but sure would like to find out! It seems obvious to me that there is some direct relationship between the biochemistry of the brain and various manifestations of TMS pain syndromes. And the biochemistry of the brain changes no doubt when the individual is subjected to various kinds of catastrophic and developmental stress in their social and psychological environments. The most obvious example is of course PTSD in vets returning to 'normal' civilian life from foreign wars. But similar biochemical changes must also take place when an individual is subjected to violence and conflicted relationships while growing up in dysfunctional families with warring superego figures. I do recall that when I was in conventional PT for a herniated disk (not coincidentally following my mother's death in 2001) that all of my "fellow suffers" there had undergone recent traumatic life-changing catastrophic events: death of a parent, divorce, loss of income, demented parent moving in with adult children, the list was endless. As Sarno suggests, each of those patients also exhibited (I realize now) symptoms of repressed rage, deep depression and profound sorrow. And, as Sarno suggests likewise, the more catastrophic the pain-precipitating event was the worse the symptoms. For example, a woman who had just been divorced at the same time her father died and had also recently lost her house, her money and her job exhibited the worst back symptoms among the patients and had in fact a double back fusion operation. And she was also one who was the most POed at the world in general and any make-believe enemy she found in her social environment. Whereas the woman who had had a demented mother move in with her and her husband only had CTS. The important point to note it seems to me is that all these individuals with TMS or TMS equivalent pain had also recently been severely traumatized one way or another in such a way that their emotional outlook was adversely impacted, which probably indicates a change in their brain's biochemistry.
 
Hi Bawbee and welcome to our community! I'm really glad that you found our threads helpful. We'll keep them coming. :)

Ive been following a prog by Ashok Gupta...the idea being that the amygdala is always on high alert when cfs and fibromyalgia are present ......and all the symptoms come from this overstimulated amygdala.

Would the slight oxygen deprivation be nother symtom from a hyperarpused nervous system?

I think that the amygdala is absolutely key in TMS because it is the root of fear and fear is a key ingredient of TMS. One thing that some of Dr. Sarno's most trusted psychologists have been investigating recently is the role of trauma in TMS, (click here for more info on trauma) and that trauma gets unconsciously stored in the amygdala.

Here's how it works: the amygdala is directly connected to our sensory systems - sight, hearing, touch, etc. - and gets input from them. When a stimulus comes in that "reminds" the amygdala of something traumatic in the past, it has a direct connection to other parts of our brain that determine how our body reacts to the stimulus. What's important here is that it happens completely unconsciously. We just see or hear something that unconsciously reminds us of something traumatic from the past and all of a sudden our pulse is racing and we start to sweat. We're afraid!

It's simple classical conditioning, exactly like what Sarno describes as a root cause of TMS. We see something that simply reminds us of something that hurts and suddenly our body goes on alert and brings on symptoms. Quite powerful, really.

Howard Schubiner describes the Amygdala's role in all of this in a blog post which I'll paste below. (To support our nonprofit, he has kindly given the wiki blanket permission to paste any of his blog posts on our site, so I'm not abusing copyright.)
Written by on October 2, 2008

Several people have asked me how they can deal with troublesome thoughts and emotions that arise. These thoughts and emotions, such as doubts about really having TMS/MBS or worry if you'll ever get better or fear about developing pain, are extremely common. Everyone has those from time to time or even very frequently.

So, how can you deal with doubts, fear and worry? You may worry about having some medical/physical problems instead of MBS/TMS and how do you deal with others when they challenge your view of MBS/TMS and suggest that there is some medical/physical problem going on. These questions boil down to two main issues, I think. The first has to do with doubt about the diagnosis of MBS/TMS. The second has to do with the issue of the power of thoughts and emotions.

Dr. Sarno always (correctly) says that we need to “erase doubt.” People always do better in the MBS/TMS program when they are convinced that their physical and psychological problems are due to emotions, stress and reactions to stress, both conscious and unconscious. However, we are in this boat because we are human, i.e. we have minds and bodies and they constantly interact. Because we have minds, we will frequently have thoughts that make us wonder if we're on the right track. I spoke to a lady today who told me that she must have something physically wrong because her pain was so severe, despite the fact that her pain had gotten much better after one week of working with the MBS/TMS program. So, it is important to erase doubt, but some doubts will undoubtedly creep in. Severe pain can definitely impair your ability to think and process emotions. It can lead to depression and more emotions, which can further impair your ability to cope with pain and which can itself lead to more pain. Some doctors also suggest that severe pain can lead to decreases in efficacy of anti-depressant medications, thus compounding the problem further. The more pain, the more doubt and then things can get spiraling out of control. In those cases, you really need to stop and go back to the beginning. You may need to seek medical advice for reassurance that there is in fact nothing more serious going on and you may even need some more testing to confirm this.

This leads to the second issue: the power of thoughts and emotions. It is critical to realize that thoughts are uncontrollable, i.e. one can never choose what thoughts will come into their heads. The mind will continually come up with a huge variety of thoughts, many of which are unproductive, weird, wild, inane, or beautiful. If we can't control out own thoughts, one certainly cannot control other people's thoughts, and therefore we must learn ways of dealing with thoughts and reacting to thoughts or else we will be at the mercy of every stray thought that we (or someone else) comes up with. And, of course, it is not only thoughts that we need to deal with, but emotions as well, which are basically thoughts that are connected to important material from our past.

After doing a lot of research on how the brain works, I have developed a model to explain how MBS develops in the brain. You can watch a video about this on my web site, www.yourpainisreal.com. When pain occurs, it activates nerve pathways which send those pain signals to the brain and particularly to the amygdala, which is the emotional center of the brain and the area that can immediately activate the autonomic nerve system (ANS), which is the unconscious connection to the body to create the fight, flight or freeze reaction. These reactions are immediate, so that if you feel the pain of a burning match, you will immediately pull your hand away before you can even think about what is happening. This reaction occurs within 12 milliseconds, much faster than could occur if you had to send those signals up to the frontal cortex where you would become aware of them consciously. This reaction protects us from danger and happens without our conscious awareness.

How do troublesome thoughts, fear and worry affect this reaction? Research studies by Dr. John Burns in Chicago have shown that fear decreases the pain threshold, i.e. when we are worried or anxious, we cannot tolerate as much pain. Many brain MRI studies have shown that the anterior cingulated cortex (ACC) is activated when we are in pain. This part of the brain is higher than the amygdala and ANS and processes these emotions. Fear, worry, anxiety all activate the ACC, which in turn activates the amygdala and the ANS to produce physical reactions in the body, such as pain and other symptoms (including symptoms in the GI tract and urinary system). When the ACC is activated, the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex area (DLPFC) is inactivated and vice versa. The DLPFC is even higher up in the brain and the area in which we can consciously process emotions. When we process emotions and calm ourselves down, talk to ourselves to help us relax, remind ourself that we are OK, that there is no real danger, then the DLPFC is activated and then the ACC will automatically become inactivated. This will turn off the ANS and amygdala responses which activate pain. As I often say, my whole program is designed to activate the DLPFC!!

Ways to activate the DLPFC are my meditation, by writing, by processing emotions, by coping with the stresses in our lives, by confronting the issues that hold us back and keep us in a state of worry, fear, anger or guilt. In other words, all the activities and exercises in the program are designed to decrease the ACC and increase the DLPFC.

An important method that is often a great first step comes from the practice of mindfulness. The first reflection/meditation in the MBS/TMS program gives you a crash course in mindfulness. The essence of mindfulness is to be aware of the present, accept the present moment without having to react to it or respond to it, and then choose to let that moment go in order to pay attention to the next moment. Or, of course, we can choose to act and do something about the thought or emotion we have just noticed. This practice teaches us to be aware of thoughts and emotions without having to react to them, without having our bodies react to them, without allowing the mind to cause pain or other physical symptoms as it has done in the past.

So, listen carefully to the first meditation and practice paying attention to all thoughts that arise, no matter if they are silly, happy, sad, scary, or divine. As you listen to the reflection, practice this: Notice each thought, accept each thought as “just a thought,” and let it go. Then do the same thing as you go through your day: Notice thoughts and emotions, accept them as just thoughts and emotions, and choose to let them go.

As you practice paying attention without reacting to thoughts and emotions, you will learn to free yourself from the tyranny that your thoughts (and other people's thoughts) can have.
One important point: If thoughts (such as doubts) and emotions such as worry and fear can cause you to have pain or other physical symptoms, it is highly likely that those symptoms are due to MBS/TMS. Makes sense, doesn't it? That, in itself, should help you erase doubt. Then you can see that you really have to deal directly with the thoughts and emotions. These are what drives pain and other MBS symptoms.

Emotions are usually seen as scary and our usual response to emotions is to try to push them away and get rid of them. It doesn't feel good to live with fear and worry. Unfortunately, the more we try to push them away, the more they tend to have power over us. The mindful approach is not to fight them or be afraid of them, but to notice them, accept that they are here and learn from them. We can treat them as something important coming up from our minds (both conscious and unconscious) that we can learn from and need to learn from in order to get better.

See the poem from Rumi below to get a totally different perspective on emotions. Write me if you want to learn more about this critical topic.

To your health,
Howard Schubiner, MD
The Guest House
By Rumi
This being human is a guest house
Every morning a new arrival.

A joy, a depression, a meanness,

some momentary awareness
comes
as an unexpected visitor.

Welcome and entertain them all!

Even if they are a crowd of sorrows,

who violently sweep your house

empty of its furniture.

Still treat each guest honorably.

He may be clearing you out for some new delight.

The dark thought, the shame, the malice,

meet them at the door laughing,

and invite them in.

Be grateful for whoever comes,

because each has been sent
 as a guide from beyond.

In another thread (click here), Dr. Zafirides mentions how Dr. Schubiner, the person who wrote the blog post, above, has published some very important research about TMS. You had mentioned Fibromyalgia, so I thought I'd mention that the people who he helped recover in that study had Fibromyalgia. This definitely makes me trust his model, if he is able to scientifically show that he can cure the condition!
 
Interesting in this context, that my acupuncturist Chinese medicine holistic health guy says that the pain in the region of what he calls the "aural kidneys" (one of the most common locations of TMS, incidentally) is also considered in his system a sign of deep-seated "fear" and "anxiety". Interesting too that in the Chinese system there are maps of pressure points on the body, running down both sides from the base of the skull, that roughly correspond to the same tender points that Dr. Sarno palpitates to confirm a diagnosis of TMS. In Chines medicine, they're called "meridians" and run down through the neck, the shoulders, the lower back, the outside of the buttocks and so on. Almost an absolute correspondence in fact. Sounds like Sarno, coming from the Western medical tradition, and the Chinese coming from theirs, are both talking about the same phenomena, though using different terminology. The Neo-Freudian revisionists like Sarno talk about emotions repressed in the unconscious and the Chinese talk about "imbalances" in the Ying and Yang Chi forces. I know there are similar diagrams of the human body in the Renaissance alchemical and astrological texts too. When in doubt, check in with Hermes Trismagistos and the Alexandrine Neo-Platonists! They were dealing with this same stuff twenty-three hundred years ago.
 
Interesting in this context, that my acupuncturist Chinese medicine holistic health guy says that the pain in the region of what he calls the "aural kidneys" (one of the most common locations of TMS, incidentally) is also considered in his system a sign of deep-seated "fear" and "anxiety".
It makes sense. Chinese medicine may not be the same as western medicine, but all one has to do is look at the recent explosion of interest in Mindfulness and TMS/PPD (for example, Howard Schubiner and Alan Gordon) to see that sources other than western medicine can come up with valuable wisdom.

Ive been following a prog by Ashok Gupta...the idea being that the amygdala is always on high alert when cfs and fibromyalgia are present ......and all the symptoms come from this overstimulated amygdala.

Would the slight oxygen deprivation be nother symtom from a hyperarpused nervous system?
Returning to Bawbee's original post, I would say that the amygdala definitely can be involved in TMS/PPD. I think that we are learning that fear and trauma are important parts of TMS/PPD and that the amygdala seems to be very tightly hooked up to them.

Does that help? I'm curious, why do you ask?
 
By the way, speaking of how the amygdala relates to trauma, I found a very nice introduction that wasn't super hard to read or confusing (though, when neuroscience is being discussed, nothing is actually easy).

(Warning: the article may trigger people sensitive to rape.)

The Neurobiology of Trauma1​
David Lisak, Ph.D.​
University of Massachusetts Boston​
(unpublished article, 2002)​

The human brain is the product of millions of years of evolution. Much of its anatomy
and physiology is the legacy of our common ancestry with the other animals, and even
with the earlier life forms from which mammals evolved. One very significant legacy of
this evolutionary heritage is a highly developed capacity to experience fear.

Although 21st century humans look very much like the planet’s number one predator, the
vast majority of our time on earth has been spent as a prey species: mid-sized meals for
true predators, such as lions, leopards and saber-tooth tigers. Our survival depended on
our capacity to react instantaneously to the threat of attack from these formidable
animals. When a leopard makes its lunge, life or death may be decided in a millisecond.

Successful adaptation demanded the evolution of a system of hormones and
neurochemicals capable of instantaneously altering the body’s functioning, preparing it
for life-saving flight or savage fight, and for the capacity to freeze completely until either
flight or fight was chosen. This cascade of chemicals is the biological equivalent of
setting off an atomic bomb inside the body. Within a fraction of a second, heart rate,
blood pressure, breathing rate, blood distribution and pupil dilation are all fundamentally
altered.

This “fight or flight” response is triggered without any conscious intervention.
Conscious thought, although subjectively fast, actually is far too slow to beat the leopard.
Evolution demanded a system that by-passes the cortex – the brain’s center of higher and
integrative functioning. It demanded a system that is wired directly into the amygdala,
the brain’s “fear center.” So, when we see a threatening stimulus, like a gun for example,
our amygdala has received the information and triggered the fight or flight response long
before we say to ourselves, “there’s a gun!”

Not only can we react without the intervention of our cortex, we can also store a great
deal of information without it. In fact, once again, it has been crucial to our survival that
we be capable of encoding in memory particular stimuli, the recognition of which might
determine life or death, and to do so without cortical involvement. Imagine a zebra
bending down to drink at a water hole, every sense keenly alert for danger. Suddenly,
from out of the grass nearby, a blur of brown hide lunges out. The zebra instantly spins,
lunges and gallops away, alive for another hour. But thirst demands that it return to the
water hole. When it does, the particular stimuli that preceded the attack will now have
been etched into memory – not at the cortical level — but rather at far simpler, subcortical
levels. At the zebra’s second visit to the water hole, should a gust of wind
happen to sway the grass and cause a similar sound to that of the lion’s lunge, the poor
animal will flee with the same experience of terror as before. If zebras think, it may say
to itself, “that was just the wind,” but it will be 50 yards away when it does so.

Being creatures with complex brains, humans actually have multiple pathways to the
experience of fear. The amygdala route, the “low road” to fear, is the fastest. However,
we may also perceive something in the environment that is not instantly recognizable as a
threat. In such a case we rely on the “high road” to fear, the route that takes the
information into the cortical regions of the brain. There, more thorough analysis of the
stimulus is possible, and we can make a more deliberative determination of the nature of
the threat.

The human capacity to experience fear, so crucial to our species’ survival, is also the
cornerstone of our capacity to become traumatized. A human being who has not been
traumatized is capable of using both the “low” and “high” roads to fear. A moving car
that suddenly appears in the corner of one’s eye will activate the low road and allow us to
jump back onto the curb before being struck. The sight of a lion at the zoo will activate
the high road, allowing us to recognize that although its canines would surely rip us to
shreds, we are safely beyond its reach. The sound of a loud bang may well activate both
low and high roads, giving us a sudden start until we identify the sound as the backfire of
a car engine. A human being who has been traumatized, however, will have far less
flexibility in the activation of their fear system. For the traumatized human, the low road
to fear predominates.

Human beings who have been raped will, just like the zebra, carry with them a network
of neurons forever prepared to respond to the perception of any of the cues that were
present during the rape. It might be the sound of a man’s voice; the feel of hands on a
particular part of the body; or the look of anger in another’s eyes. The possibilities are
literally infinite. At the sound, touch or sight of those cues, the rape victim will
experience the same cascade of neurochemicals that were triggered during the actual
rape. Their heart will begin racing, their blood pressure will spike, their breathing will
accelerate. They may find themselves fleeing in terror from a supermarket because
someone unexpectedly touched them on the arm. They may find themselves frozen in
terror because a man said something hostile to them in a parking lot. Their reactions are
not conscious choices, not “hysterical” over-reactions, any more than is the zebra’s flight
from the sound of windblown grass. Both are reactions governed not by the cortex, not
by conscious thought, but rather by the “low road” of amygdala-based fear networks.

Traumatic Memory​

The memory of a traumatic experience is not encoded in the same way as is a normal
experience. The powerful neurochemicals that trigger the fight or flight response have
far-reaching effects, including dramatic effects on the manner in which memories are
encoded. Often, a traumatized person cannot generate the kind of narrative memory that
we can normally muster for an important experience. Their memories are often
fragmented, out of sequence, and filled with gaps. They may recall very specific details
for particular aspects of the experience, and recall little or nothing for others. It is for this
reason – the neurobiology of traumatic memory – that great care must be taken in
interviewing trauma survivors. The fact that a traumatized person recalls a detail which
they earlier had not is not prima facie evidence of fabrication; it is the characteristic way
in which these types of memories are stored and recalled. The fact that they can recall
the texture of the rapist’s shirt, but cannot recall whether he was wearing a hat, is not
evidence that something is being hidden; it is a product of how the brain encodes
information during a trauma.

Once again, these characteristics of traumatic memory are not the consequence of
conscious choice or resistance. Rather, they are the consequence of the radically altered
neurochemical environment in which the memories were encoded.

To summarize, the rape victim, like any traumatized human, is left with a permanently
altered brain. As part of its legacy, trauma leaves its victims with fear networks etched
into the amygdala, networks that can be triggered by a multitude of cues that would
ordinarily not evoke fear. Trauma also leaves its victims with fragmented and
discontinuous memories of what happened to them. As a consequence of these legacies,
the rape victim faces enormous challenges in the judicial process. To participate in that
process – to endlessly recount their trauma, to appear in the court room where the rapist
sits – is equivalent to the zebra consciously choosing to return to the water hole where the
lion attacked. In both cases, a confrontation with the biological legacy of trauma is
inevitable. The zebra only does so out of absolute necessity; the rape victim’s choice
must be more conscious, and more deliberate.

1 For further information about the neurobiology of fear, see Joseph Ledoux, The
Emotional Brain, 1996, New York, Simon & Shuster. For detailed information about the
neurobiology of trauma, see Rachel Yehuda and Alexander C. McFarlane, Psychobiology
of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, 1997, New York, Annals of the New York Academy of
Sciences, Volume 821.

I have to say that what he wrote about rape is right on the money. I have a close friend who was raped almost 20 years ago. The experience gave her PTSD, which has stuck with her to this very day. The following paragraph describes her experiences (as she describes them to me) very well:

Human beings who have been raped will, just like the zebra, carry with them a network
of neurons forever prepared to respond to the perception of any of the cues that were
present during the rape. It might be the sound of a man’s voice; the feel of hands on a
particular part of the body; or the look of anger in another’s eyes. The possibilities are
literally infinite. At the sound, touch or sight of those cues, the rape victim will
experience the same cascade of neurochemicals that were triggered during the actual
rape. Their heart will begin racing, their blood pressure will spike, their breathing will
accelerate. They may find themselves fleeing in terror from a supermarket because
someone unexpectedly touched them on the arm. They may find themselves frozen in
terror because a man said something hostile to them in a parking lot. Their reactions are
not conscious choices, not “hysterical” over-reactions, any more than is the zebra’s flight
from the sound of windblown grass. Both are reactions governed not by the cortex, not
by conscious thought, but rather by the “low road” of amygdala-based fear networks.

My friend's experience is certainly an extreme one and I have so much sympathy for her. Yet, I think that in some ways her experience is similar to all of our experiences. We can all be triggered by little cues that travel through our amygdala and bring back emotions from long ago.
 
I thought providing this Wiki entry might be apropos to include here because the handy overview it provides of how the Amygdala interacts with other parts of the brain:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amygdala

It's role in emotional learning sounds as though it has a great deal to do with conditioning the fear response described above and the creation of TMS symptoms, doesn't it?
 
The Amygdala is probably playing a major role in the development of TMS/PPD symptoms. As the Wikipedia article mentions it plays a big role in the Fight, Flight, Freeze reactions. The Freeze reaction plays a huge role in the development of PPD symptoms. A while back Dr. Schubiner participated in an interview with the wiki, and he mentioned the Amygdala saying,

Dr. Schubiner said:
These pathways can begin due to an injury or stressful event that produces strong emotions in the amygdala. Once the pain begins, nerves that send pain signals to the brain become sensitive over time and send repeated signals even when there is no tissue damage in the area where the pain is felt. These signals go to the amygdala and then get amplified by both conscious and subconscious emotions, which trigger activation of the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC). The autonomic nervous system (ANS) activates the fight, flight, freeze, or submit mechanism, which produces nerve activation, muscle tension, GI/GU spasm, and/or CV activation that worsens the physical symptoms. These pathways get reinforced over time, and this creates a vicious cycle of pain and increased emotional responses. A variety of triggers (such as certain physical movements or positions, places, weather changes, foods, or situations) can act as conditioned responses and add to the neurologic pathways that perpetuate pain. In the conscious portion of the brain, the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (DLPFC) area can act to diminish and break the cycle by overriding the activity of the ANS and by deactivating the ACC.

To read the full interview go to Interview with Howard Schbuiner. He also made this really good video about the role the brain plays in creating PPD symptoms. The Amygdala comes up around the 4:40 mark

 
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