15 year old with herniated disc

[NYTMS]

I have been dealing with TMS for the past 25 years. Primarily sciatica L4-L5 & L5 S1. I had 2 failed back surgeries at 19 & w
20 before I discovered Sarno. I go years with no pain and then get flare ups.

Anyway my son was wrestling (which he didn’t like but was giving it a try) and after a grueling match complained of shoulder pain and weakness in his arm. After 2 weeks with no improvement took him to orthopedic thinking it’s was a rotator cuff injury. The PA does an exam and says that not your shoulder it’s your neck. PA says “I wrestled in high school and my whole neck is fused probably from wrestling injuries.” He sends him for an urgent MRI. Before we leave he tells my son after we get the MRI “we will evaluate to see if you need surgery.” He looked at me and said “your quiet dad what’s your thoughts.” I said I have 3 herniated discs my whole life” I’m not concerned. I said this primarily so I wouldn’t panic my son who was shaken up.

My son also complained about numbness on his knee which I thought was weird because that was my first symptom before seeing an orthopedic doctor and going down their miserable path.

The MRI shows a herniated disc C4/C5. We have a follow up with the orthopedic surgeon but I’m not taking my son to it. We are considering just telling him it’s an inflamed nerve and he will be fine.

Anyone have thoughts on how to handle the his. They gave him steroids.

 

[Baseball65]

which he didn’t like but was giving it a try

after a grueling match

I'd be pissed too.

I wrestled in high school and my whole neck is fused probably from wrestling injuries

Totally irresponsible NOCEBO, but that's normal in the medical world.

we will evaluate to see if you need surgery.

Scary and scarier still

I said I have 3 herniated discs my whole life”

We have a follow up with the orthopedic surgeon but I’m not taking my son to it

Good call

The hardest part of TMS theory to wrap your head around is Sarno‘s observation that TMS often attacks a “believable“ location. I had a dramatic fall at a skate park when I was 19. I woke up two days later to left side paralysis. Scared the Hell out of me. They spoke of surgery. My mom said "no way". I was actually out skating other pools the very next week and never had back problems again until my 30s when TMS kicked in. My Mother only told me of the dire prognosis YEARS afterwards.

Reflecting on that, that “accident“ happened the same weekend I had an existential crisis ; I realized all my friends had gone to college, but I was a handyman who pumped gas ,skateboarded, Surfed And had no aim in life. I was with kids I had outperformed in school who were now my 'superiors' . RAGE. Unconscious ... embarrassing. Need a symptom, NOW.

My brain chose a believable symptom. Perhaps I herniated a disk… But remember, Dr. Sarno reminds us the body is integrated and will choose a likely source to distract us...and herniated discs don't cause pain. (Healing Back Pain -Sarno)

Perhaps your son was angrier than even he knew about the wrestling match? Perhaps he’s having the normal very painful pressures that all young people experience in that age group? Athletic Performance, Partnering up, School, frustrating things being spewed by the school (lots of those these days) Also, the numbness in the knee? I have noticed that TMS sort of 'hunts' down a spot until it settle somewhere....Like the body knows where the 'less than perfect' spot is.

I am a father. I learned about TMS when my sons were very young and employed TMS theory in my parenting, OFTEN putting me at odds with their Mother and Doctors. My 30 year old son has been a pitcher his whole life. He often complains of pain and soreness after games (we still play In a league together)... I also notice that the complaints usually follow games where the team makes a bunch of errors behind him, or he gets hit hard????? I am CERTAIN if his arm was MRI'd he has torn/worn ligaments,etc.... but NOT having been to a Dr, he doesn't take it too seriously and knowing about TMS I NEVER interrupt his angry rants when he needs to 'vent'. He NEVER has a complaint when he has a great game, which is often.

My other son went through phase where he kept having testicle pain, getting checked, diagnosed, prescribed, pain returns,circles, circles, circles, etc.... and I began to notice that it always happened when he was having Girl trouble. Usually some clingy girl he wanted to leave but felt guilty about. We have learned this stuff through open discussion, honesty and persistence. Now he knows when he feels that to look inside himself. The symbolism is sometimes more relevant then the issue.

I have been called names. Negligent parent. Uncaring Father. Mean. BUT both of my sons are fully functional, healthy men (Thank you God)...and I always treated it like TMS. I know this sounds odd, but I never interfered if their Mom got hold of them first and they were 'prescribed' something. I let that run it's course too... Because when it's TMS, that stuff doesn't work, or it only works for a minute....Everything except Broken bones and Gnarly Cuts went away.

From one dad to another, I hope that helps. It can get lonely and scary being the decision maker

 

[NYTMS]

I'd be pissed too.
Totally irresponsible NOCEBO, but that's normal in the medical world.
Scary and scarier still

Good call

The hardest part of TMS theory to wrap your head around is Sarno‘s observation that TMS often attacks a “believable“ location. I had a dramatic fall at a skate park when I was 19. I woke up two days later to left side paralysis. Scared the Hell out of me. They spoke of surgery. My mom said "no way". I was actually out skating other pools the very next week and never had back problems again until my 30s when TMS kicked in. My Mother only told me of the dire prognosis YEARS afterwards.

Reflecting on that, that “accident“ happened the same weekend I had an existential crisis ; I realized all my friends had gone to college, but I was a handyman who pumped gas ,skateboarded, Surfed And had no aim in life. I was with kids I had outperformed in school who were now my 'superiors' . RAGE. Unconscious ... embarrassing. Need a symptom, NOW.

My brain chose a believable symptom. Perhaps I herniated a disk… But remember, Dr. Sarno reminds us the body is integrated and will choose a likely source to distract us...and herniated discs don't cause pain. (Healing Back Pain -Sarno)

Perhaps your son was angrier than even he knew about the wrestling match? Perhaps he’s having the normal very painful pressures that all young people experience in that age group? Athletic Performance, Partnering up, School, frustrating things being spewed by the school (lots of those these days) Also, the numbness in the knee? I have noticed that TMS sort of 'hunts' down a spot until it settle somewhere....Like the body knows where the 'less than perfect' spot is.

I am a father. I learned about TMS when my sons were very young and employed TMS theory in my parenting, OFTEN putting me at odds with their Mother and Doctors. My 30 year old son has been a pitcher his whole life. He often complains of pain and soreness after games (we still play In a league together)... I also notice that the complaints usually follow games where the team makes a bunch of errors behind him, or he gets hit hard????? I am CERTAIN if his arm was MRI'd he has torn/worn ligaments,etc.... but NOT having been to a Dr, he doesn't take it too seriously and knowing about TMS I NEVER interrupt his angry rants when he needs to 'vent'. He NEVER has a complaint when he has a great game, which is often.

My other son went through phase where he kept having testicle pain, getting checked, diagnosed, prescribed, pain returns,circles, circles, circles, etc.... and I began to notice that it always happened when he was having Girl trouble. Usually some clingy girl he wanted to leave but felt guilty about. We have learned this stuff through open discussion, honesty and persistence. Now he knows when he feels that to look inside himself. The symbolism is sometimes more relevant then the issue.

I have been called names. Negligent parent. Uncaring Father. Mean. BUT both of my sons are fully functional, healthy men (Thank you God)...and I always treated it like TMS. I know this sounds odd, but I never interfered if their Mom got hold of them first and they were 'prescribed' something. I let that run it's course too... Because when it's TMS, that stuff doesn't work, or it only works for a minute....Everything except Broken bones and Gnarly Cuts went away.

From one dad to another, I hope that helps. It can get lonely and scary being the decision maker

My son has OCD tendencies. You’ll appreciate this…The PA told him “does the pain only run to your shoulder? Because typically it goes down to your hand” Yesterday my son tells me “dad the pain is now further down my arm.”

it’s really sad how the medical apparatus operates in bad faith this PA I k ow in my heart took great pride in scaring my son and was irritated when he couldn’t get me concerned.

luckily my wife is pretty open to TMS because she’s seen me go through episodes where I can’t walk and then 2 weeks later I’m playing volleyball….

 

[Cactusflower]

I recommend you contact Dr. Hanscom. If you feel you need it. He is a TMS practitioner after being a spine surgeon for 25 years, and a person who deals with tms in his life. Your child is now being schooled in mindset from your past snd the Drs, but Hanscom can break things down and explain “old” science from new findings and help remove doubt to help your child reverse this cycle he’s finding himself in.
@Baseball65 is so right on, plus the zillion other things that pressure teens they might not even be aware of.

 

[NYTMS]

I recommend you contact Dr. Hanscom. If you feel you need it. He is a TMS practitioner after being a spine surgeon for 25 years, and a person who deals with tms in his life. Your child is now being schooled in mindset from your past snd the Drs, but Hanscom can break things down and explain “old” science from new findings and help remove doubt to help your child reverse this cycle he’s finding himself in.
@Baseball65 is so right on, plus the zillion other things that pressure teens they might not even be aware of.

Right now it’s only been 2 weeks since the injury I’m keeping him away from any Orthopedic surgeons (my wife and I are meeting with him alone and not telling my son) but my inclination is to just tell him your fine and rest up and when you feel better resume activity. Nothing to worry about. If for some reason he still has symptoms in several weeks I’d definitely try to reach out to Dr. Hamscom or medical drs familiar with TMS/MBS.

 

[JanAtheCPA]

I’d definitely try to reach out to Dr. Hamscom or medical drs familiar with TMS/MBS.

Hanscom can break things down and explain “old” science from new findings and help remove doubt

Dr. Hanscom is an excellent suggestion, and he has a website with a ton of freely-available information. Just search for "David Hanscom MD, Back In Control"

A lot of his blog posts used to be reposted here on the forum: Mindbody Blogs (was Practitioner's Corner) | TMS Forum (The Mindbody Syndrome) (tmswiki.org) - just skimming the titles will give you an idea of the many topics he presents, with anger being a frequent one.

"Back In Control" is the program Dr. Hanscom developed for his pre-surgery patients when he was still performing surgery. He is a follower of Dr Sarno, having endured his own TMS journey, including his own failed back surgery. He left the surgical profession a few years ago, when he reached the point where a significant number of his patients were completing his program and cancelling their surgeries (perhaps Swedish hospital wasn't too pleased by that). He now devotes himself full time to his program and to mindbody healing. And he also does TMS consultations. He's an awesome resource.

 

[Baseball65]

The PA told him “does the pain only run to your shoulder? Because typically it goes down to your hand” Yesterday my son tells me “dad the pain is now further down my arm.”

That is the Nocebo Sarno talked about, to the Tee. Those guys are totally hypnotized technicians.I got mad just reading that.

My son has OCD tendencies.

So do I, And My eldest son as well. In fact, that was one of the things I got free of right after my pain left in '99. I have been able to help my son stay largely free of it.

TMS is synonymous with OCD. TMS is just OCD of the body. That makes that horrible negligent thing the PA said even more dangerous.

Sarno wrote about OCD being a TMS equivalent and the same strategies can banish both.

You are doing all of the right things. Trust your gut. You're honest love and concern for your son is way more likely to see him to a 'cure' than anything those guys have to offer.

hang in there!

 

[NYTMS]

Thank you. And I agree with the comments about OCD of the body.